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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting, but not conclusive. They saw the flag, friend. Also, we have no way of knowing whether the pilots were involved. Also, it's helicopter pilots, not the fighters... etc. When you've got the president refusing to send help and a cover-up, you've got a serious problem whether it was intentional or not. Fog of war? Perhaps. That story is not proof, just interesting. But it was still covered up. |
If Israel took the time to have the pilots in on in the conspiracy and then why wouldn't Israel have taken the time to hit the ship with much more powerful weapons and sink it?
If the Ship wasn't there then it would have been much easier to cover up.
Also no one has come up with a motive. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
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| As far as Israel, it was a state whose creation was to lead to the ethnic cleansing of a large Arab population. Who would except their fellow ethnic brethren getting ethnic cleansed and losing the territory? I don't think you would. You make it seem it is just a penchant for violence. The European Jews were fleeing anti-Semitism naturally, and the Arabs were fighting a homeland that would be created by seizing territories where Arabs lived and ethnic cleansing them. Both are elementary. |
Of course in 1948 the arab side was also trying to ethnic cleanse the jews of the region.
[This was in the context of depopulating the Palestinian side. There were no attempts of ethnic cleansing Jews in 1880, the 1700s etc.... This happened in reaction to the emergence of Zionism in the region and colonialism. In order for Israel to be established, the Palestinians had to be ethnic cleansed. It was known among Zionist circles.
And while many arabs were something close to ethnically cleansed it was not the main intention of Israel to do so. Notice that many arabs also stayed in Israel where they were and are treated far better than the jews in arab lands.
[At least, you are saying they were close to being ethnically cleansed, you stated it was not the intention of the Jewish forces. There was really no Israel when this was thought out. In order to create a Jewish democracy, you cannot have an Arab majority and in the land of the 1947 partition recommendation the Arabs were a majority and Israeli Jews would be outvoted by the Arabs, so the militias were encouraging the Arabs to leave.
In Nazareth, they wanted to ethnic cleanse the inhabitants there, but the Jewish Canadian general completely refused saying it was against his principles to do so, and that he gave his word to the people of Nazareth that such a thing wouldn't happen, because they did not take part in the fighting. They kept pressuring him. Finally, they didn't do that to the people of Nazareth, but he was demoted. I feel proud of such Jews. Yes, the Arabs did cleanse through pressure Jews out of Egypt and other places, but it was not the action of the Palestinians, and Zionism existed before the feeling of wanting to expel Jews out of Egypt. One came before the other.
So while it was not clear that Egypt intended to attack Israel it was serious enough that Israel would have to keep its forces on alert while Egypt was massing soldiers.
[It is very clear Egypt did not intend to attack. Much of its military was in Yemen and it's airforce was not ready. Nasser was foolish but not completely stupid. He was not prepared for launching a war.
If you think that Israel didn't have to please remember that Israel paid a high price in 1973 for not doing so.
[Again, what is the context of the 1973 war? The pre-emptive war launched against Egypt in 1967 in which the Sinai was still occupied.
Sadat actually tried to talk to Golda Meier (see the book the New Israelis by Yossi Melman) and wanted to communicate with Israel long before Camp David. What did Golda Meier do? She ignored him? What did Sadat do? He launched a limited attack on Israel, thereby betraying the Syrians, because he had no intention of destroying Israel like Syria and had certain economic and political objectives - American money and support rather than Russian, a peace treaty and the land back and not investing so much money on the military preparing for war against Israel...
So since Egypt had a much greater population than Israel it could keep its forces ready for an invasion while Israel with a much smaller population could not.
Remember if Israel kept it forces on alert all the time it would have been a terrible strategic situation for Israel that Isreal could not sustain. After all soldiers would not be able to do their regular jobs while they were on alert.
So it was akin to someone waving their hands in your face but not really intending to hit. Nevertheless one can not live that way.
I would say if someone is always waving their hands in someones face in a threatening way they ought not complain if they get decked hard for doing so.
Nasser had it coming. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| [This was in the context of depopulating the Palestinian side. There were no attempts of ethnic cleansing Jews in 1880, the 1700s etc.... This happened in reaction to the emergence of Zionism in the region and colonialism. In order for Israel to be established, the Palestinians had to be ethnic cleansed. It was known among Zionist circles. |
So in 1948 it was ok to launch a war to ethically clease or mass kill tens of thousands of people. By a side who supported the Nazis?
It was a war crime or an attempted war crime. No ifs ands or buts .
Besides it there were many zionists who did not want ethnically cleansing the area. You will only get your case if you get the most
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| [At least, you are saying they were close to being ethnically cleansed, you stated it was not the intention of the Jewish forces. There was really no Israel when this was thought out. In order to create a Jewish democracy, you cannot have an Arab majority and in the land of the 1947 partition recommendation the Arabs were a majority and Israeli Jews would be outvoted by the Arabs, so the militias were encouraging the Arabs to leave. |
There were a lot of factors, and Israel didn't plan everything that happened nor think of all the consequences of their actions.
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| In Nazareth, they wanted to ethnic cleanse the inhabitants there, but the Jewish Canadian general completely refused saying it was against his principles to do so, and that he gave his word to the people of Nazareth that such a thing wouldn't happen, because they did not take part in the fighting. They kept pressuring him. Finally, they didn't do that to the people of Nazareth, but he was demoted. I feel proud of such Jews. Yes, the Arabs did cleanse through pressure Jews out of Egypt and other places, but it was not the action of the Palestinians, and Zionism existed before the feeling of wanting to expel Jews out of Egypt. One came before the other. |
In 1948 which side launched the war and what were their intentions?.Please answer.
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| [It is very clear Egypt did not intend to attack. Much of its military was in Yemen and it's airforce was not ready. Nasser was foolish but not completely stupid. He was not prepared for launching a war. |
Israel could not be sure, and Israel would have had to mass forces in response. If Egypt was zero threat then see the 1973 war.
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[Again, what is the context of the 1973 war? The pre-emptive war launched against Egypt in 1967 in which the Sinai was still occupied.
Sadat actually tried to talk to Golda Meier (see the book the New Israelis by Yossi Melman) and wanted to communicate with Israel long before Camp David. What did Golda Meier do? She ignored him? What did Sadat do? He launched a limited attack on Israel, thereby betraying the Syrians, because he had no intention of destroying Israel like Syria and had certain economic and political objectives - American money and support rather than Russian, a peace treaty and the land back and not investing so much money on the military preparing for war against Israel... |
It showed that Egypt could hurt Israel agreed?
Then it shows that Israel could not just ignore it when another country kicks who threatens to destroy it out UN peacekeepers , puts up a naval blockade and masses troops.
Besides Israel can't be expect to know all of Egypts intentions so accurately and you can't blame them for expecting the worst or at least planning for it |
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