Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ratslash]

excellent post chilsung.

but...

i thought that some of the stuff you wrote was just common sense stuff when applying for jobs. obviously not coz you seem to be writing that people actually do some of the things you mention. the one that made me chuckle was the one were you said that you receive a letter with a list of 10+ different schools on it. i mean, is that just plain silly or what? people actually do that? lol.

what ever happened to common sense?

[bucheon bum]

[chilsung]

I guess for those who did not fully read or perhaps cannot I will re-state one more time. I am just a teacher, not a director. I was posting just to help a little. Now, again I will state that experience and other qualifications do deserve a higher pay scale, but you never demand. My point was about demanding. Any arrogance and unwillingness to compromise will come across badly.

I don't know for anyone else, but none of my kindergarten and elementary teachers were college professors. Also, in the same vein none of my University prof's were former kindergarten teachers. Certification in the states is specific to grade levels. An employer wants to see that a person has a focus in their career. If you are applying for a kindergarten position don't tell them that you are looking to be a University Professor.

I myself want to get the best pay for the least amount of work. I am not a fool either. I don't want to work 40 hours and get the paid as others working for 20. But, I don't boldy state that in an interview. I dont' demand anything.

This post was for those who are applying for jobs not for those who allready have them. If you question why you apply for a multitude of positions and recieve no response, perhaps you can look again at your resume and your interviewing skills.

[Homer]

Like I said Derrek,

You may of course demand whatever salary you want. But, if you expect to get it you should at the very least have minimum qualifications.
If some fool school is ready to pay an inexperienced teacher a high salary then so be it.
The point the OP made, and it was a good one, is that many prospective teachers expect to get the golden contract for their first job in Korea.
This is as ridiculous as someone expecting to begin midway up the salary ladder in any job when he or she has no experience.
In fact, the OP made all round excellent points about people wanting to apply for teaching jobs.

[OiGirl]

You really don't know much about teaching in the US, do you?

Most ESL teaching licenses are K-12, as are special area teaching licenses (i.e., physical education, art, or music.) So a teacher could teach kindergarten one year, and 20-year-old high school seniors the next year or even the same afternoon.

The qualifications for a teacher of adult ESL are usually a bachelor's degree with some experience preferred but by no means required:

http://www.ncccs.cc.nc.us/David_Britt/jobs1.htm

In some cases, the qualification for teaching adults is actually a K-12 license:

http://cie.ci.swt.edu/credential/section6.htm

One could easily be fully qualified to move between teaching ESL to kids and adults.

[William Beckerson]

[chomsky]

[kateinkorea]

Hmmmm...interesting.

I am trying to get this straight.

Okay teaching experience for adults is not relevant to teaching children and ...

I guess it also depends on what you consider teaching experience.

I put an ad in while still in Canada saying that I had raised two sons, obviously having taught them at least some English during the twenty years I cared for them. My young friend who just finished university that year put an ad in and got about 10 responses to my one.

Also my boss said it was okay that I had no specific training as a teacher (I am a biologist). He said he would train me. He also told me I was teaching "conversational English". After my 15 minute talk with him where he pointed to the books on the bookshelf, I taught my first class. I am the main teacher at the school, and I am teaching English...not conversational English.

So please tell me how I could minimise the profession any more than my boss has. I am put into a position where I have expectations to be more than what my qualifications are. So...on my next job since I am expected to perform like a professional...should I not sell myself as one and ask for the same pay as one?

Just some questions because I am looking for a job.

[Starperson]

Rush,

I think some of what you've said is useful ie get dressed up for the interview, don't put too much detail on your CV. However, I don't understand why you wouldn't be interested in hobbies or activities. i've always thought that this shows that the person is active, well-rounded and healthy. When you go for a top-notch job at a consulting or other company, they want to know all about what you do with your time. this sort of stuff perhaps reflects a lot about the person you're interviewing.

Also, why do you have such high expectation regarding candidates experience? This job market appeals to people straight out of university and often the only experience they've had with work is the part-time work they've held through university. And even these jobs aren't irrelevant, because they show a bit about the person - commitment, responsibility, ability to work as a team or individual etc.

Also, if you want a committed, diligent teacher who puts in a professional effort, then why not pay them what a teacher gets paid back home? Or nera it. I think some of the jobs that offer 3 mil and over recognise this principle - get what you pay for.

I'd say you have more experience than me with interviewing people, but this is how I understand it. I'd be interested to hear more of what you've got to say about resumes, if you feel you're qualified to say it.

But it would be nice if you could use a more encouraging tone.

[paul]

The best part about these kind of threads is reading the first and last post and see if they have anything to do with each other. In this case it does, but in the really popular threads, such as "Are Korean women sexy?", the funniest things happen.

The first post will say: I think Korean women are the sexiest things in the galaxy! And the last post in the three-page thread will say: White North American women are too busy to deal with men!

Ever notice that?

By the way, who in the world writes a cover letter for a hawgwon job? They are a dime a dozen.

[Ilsanman]

Sad but true. I came here with high hopes, and I actually thought I would be a 'real' teacher.

English teachers are the amoeba of the teaching world. But it's the fault of the hagwon directors and the bratty kids, in my opinion.

If hagwons were run like schools, and not businesses, maybe it wouldn't be a joke.

The teaching market is so flooded, pay and benefits are so high, and standards for hiring are so low (a piece of paper), that a lot of rifraff comes here. Also a lot of good teachers. I think I am a reasonably good teacher, but the joke of the system brings me down, and I don't do as good of a job as I possibly can. I give what I receive.

I really want to get a 'real' teaching job next year, but I have made too many friends here, and I like living here too much, I am a bit nervous to start from scratch all over again.

This thread is a long, sad story

[jajdude]

I don't know who feels entitled or not, but I say get the best deal you can, obviously. If the school is willing to pay you well with good benefits, good for you for finding such a place. There is a vast variety of positions and situations.

[Thomas]

I like the original post and I think people looking for jobs should seriously read it.
My impression of the poster was that s/he was being a bit strict on what to keep and throw out however. But, in the end, if a company enforces a strict policy of selective hrring based on high standards, that company will probably be successful.

For me, I keep a massive resume on file (computer) with everything I have done... listed out with specifics. When I find a job I want to apply for, I save it as a new document and cut out everything that doesn't apply to that job (as the original poster recommended). I type up a generic cover letter and FOR EACH PERSON I am mailing it to, I change the addressee and a bit of the content to show that I am interested in this position. Sending out 100 generic applications will probably get the same amount of responses as 15 specific, personal, researched ones.

For me, as a public school teacher in the US (New York State, certified Social Studies grades 7-12), I got my job based on my Korean English experience and my "Other Skills"... namely languages. I got my "foot in the door" as a Spanish teacher and then was offered a job in my area after a couple of months. Those skills were NOT inappropriate to getting hired. Listing skills can be a good thing as well. Computer skills helped me in consideration for my current job. In the US, however, the rule of thumb is a resume not longer than 2 pages... keep it short, sweet and relevant... unless something on there is put there to elicit interest, e.g. my Korean experience alone got me several calls from schools who wanted to interview me and talk about tecahing in Korea... and yes, I got job offers.

Finally, a couple of pointers:
(1) At the interview, dress nicely (over-dress)... for men wear a shirt and tie at least. Prepare questions to ask at the school... and research the school on the internet or word of mouth. Have at least a couple of questions to ask.
(2) Be "up" on current educational trends... at least have an opinion on "cooperative learning", "team, teaching", and classroom management... this will help you with interview questions.

(3) Laser print your resumes on GOOD paper. Buy a pack of resume paper... I personally bought an ivory color.... stands out from the other interviewees' papers. A Xerox on lightweight white is unnoticeable.

(4) Cover letters should be on good paper too and should be SPECIFIC to the place you are applying.

(5) Bring extra copies of all required documents (diploma, transcripts, resume, cover letter, application) because chances are the secretary lost your packet... provide one and you look prepared.

[TECO]

The OP is full of *beep*
What a goofy rant.

[Kwangjuchicken]

Also, in the same vein none of my University prof's were former kindergarten teachers. Certification in the states is specific to grade levels. An employer wants to see that a person has a focus in their career. If you are applying for a kindergarten position don't tell them that you are looking to be a University Professor.

Have you ever taken an education course or a TESOL course in the United States? If you have, then this statement is not true. In order to teach education or TESOL courses in a college or university in the US one must have previous K-12 experience. Usually at least 3 years and you often also need a valid teaching certificate. Of course, you also need a PhD.
Furthermore, to teach in a MATESOL program you need a minimum of three years overseas teaching experience. My goal is to teach in a MATESOL program in the US. That is why I came to Korea after having received my PhD. Here I can get K-12 and overseas experience at the same time. AND I get to do all that while teaching in a university. Great system. Now, if there were not 800 of us applying to those THREE openings a year back in the USA Well, I am going tio send this without proofreading. This is mid-term week and I have done enough correcting.