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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Do you know what a cluster sample is? Do you know that the BBC news article you cited was written in 2004? Do you know that of those supposed 650,000 plus deaths that lancet cites, only roughly 168,000 are attributed to occupational forces? Here's a multiple choice question:
Which country or countries have dimissed the Lancet report on civilian casualties as unreliable, biased and or just plain wrong?
A. The U.S.
B. The U.K.
C. Iraq
D. All of the above
If you chose D, you would be correct. But according to you, the reason for dismissing this report is because it doesn't fit their agenda.
And what about the following:
Not even the Iraqi Ministry of Health agrees with tha Lancet report. Additionally, the United Nations and Iraqi Body Count Project also have a vastly different number of deaths than the Lancet study. Not to mention, where are all the bodies? Hard to dispose of 650,000 bodies over just a few years.
Oh, yes, I do know that the Iraqi Ministry of Health report is based on a short period of time. However, if the Lancet report can base their death projections on such a small sample, then so can we. Also, what's the difference between a civilian and a militant? Do you really think a family will admit, when asked about cause of death, that their loved one was a militant holding an AK-47 when he got waxed? |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I know the article was printed 04, that`s cause this happened in 04, so what?
Yes I know that all the deaths weren`t caused by US military, no one was ever saying otherwise.
And yes even the Iraqi government could have a reason to downplay the death toll, as they obviously want the occupation to continue long enough so they can get established.
So please tell me why this particular survey was flawed while the surveys by the same team with the same method in Kosovo were not questioned by either the Brittish or US government? You think these guys have got WORSE at their job over the years?
Finally, are you at least willing to take back your statement that this obviously "didn`t happen" since it was reported on Alternet? |
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cangel
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: Jeonju, S. Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, the Lancet report did happen - if that's what you're talking about.
Why is the Lancet Kosovo report not widey criticized? Because Lancet's results aren't 10 times higher then all other reports on the war. Simple.
Also, do you know who conducted the survey?
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An October 11, 2006 Washington Post article[4] reports:
"The survey was conducted between May 20 and July 10 [2006] by eight Iraqi physicians organized through Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. They visited 1,849 randomly selected households that had an average of seven members each. One person in each household was asked about deaths in the 14 months before the invasion and in the period after. The interviewers asked for death certificates 87 percent of the time; when they did, more than 90 percent of households produced certificates." |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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on the other hand wrote:
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| Well, if the decades of enmity stoked by the Baathists" is such an obvious fact, how come it wasn't taken into account by the war planners? I don't recall Bush predicting that the US would be faced with widespread animosity in Iraq. |
You're absolutely correct and that is indeed the supreme irony of the conflict. You'd think we'd have learned that by now. I'm convinced more than ever that the sheer lack of combat experience in the Bush Administration--with the notable exception of Powell--allowed that to occur along with its cocky style of diplomatic management.
Even the Powell Doctrine was shortsighted--a doctrine embraced by almost all the Democratic leadership as well. That doctrine, resulting from lessons learned in Vietnam, stipulates that American forces should not be put in harm's way unless the objective is clear and the public supports it wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, it does not account for another essential part of the equation, namely, that the vast majority of those being aided support our efforts as well.
What say you to that?
Sidebar to Raving Posters on this Board:
You see, ontheotherhand, mindmetoo, and guriguy sometimes don't agree with me but their manner of disagreement, which is both well informed and measured, allows for dialogue. You, too, can play the game. |
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giggles84
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Location: Loch Ness where the Monster lives, Inverness, Scotland UK planet Earth (according 2 google earth)
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| TBH think about how many people die in car crash in a year, or hunger or STDs etc. there is too much concerntration on iraq in the media and politics. there are loads of more probs in the world far worse and far more dangerous (and am thinking other than global warming and islamic terrorism) |
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