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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| The Climatic Research Unit is the UK's leading scientific propaganda mouthpiece.They will try everything in their power to squash any science, theory, or hypothesis that may possibly interrupt the milk of the taxpayer-funded teat for which their entire livelihood is based upon.... |
1. Learn to quote, and please do it soon. 2. Why did it take you so far into the thread to behave appropriately and actually post some degree of scientific enquiry? 3. Is this going to be a continuing trend, or shoudl I just ignore your post in expectation of the next bilious assult?
Starting a busy week tomorrow complete with a trip to the doc's, but will get to the info provided ASAP.
Edited:
Crap. I just read it. Once again, there's no there there. It's an OP piece, not a scientific paper. Why is this always the case with the denial crowd?
1. His language is rude, childish, inflammatory, and propagandistic. That should be below any serious scientist. Not a good sign.
2. His claim that biomass is not considered is crap. The issue of biomass is discussed and considered. As with clouds, it is extremely difficult to model, so best guesses are used. What he is claiming is like pretending science is exact. It is not. As is commonly understood, most science is theory in progress. Saying the models are bunk is itself a lie. Do you expect this line of thinking to be taken seriously?
3.
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| "I'm not saying the warming doesn't cause problems, obviously it does," he told students two years ago. "Obviously we should be trying to understand it. I'm saying that the problems are being grossly exaggerated. |
This is dishonest. He, and you, know that the expectations and fears related to global warming are laid out in ranges of possibilities. The IPCC reports this year laid out a most likely scenario of a one to two degree rise in temps with around 7 - 20 cm. of sea level rise. This is hardly alarmist. Your "scientist" is more alarmist about the "alarmists" than they are about GW.
Further, he is basically lying about what those concerned about GW are saying. The issue is not climate change nor its degree, it is our ability to deal with the changes that is the issue. A wet Sahara? Might that be good? Sure. Might it be bad? Sure. Energy is energy. It cannot be destroyed. If all that energy is going into the Sahara, it is being lost elsewhere. What is teh counterbalancing effect? His assumption that GW will be beneficial is as pollyanna as he claims the other view is alarmist.
Simple question: if the climate changes enough for the Sahara to be wet, LA, NY, Beijing, Tokyo, etc., will be flooded. Where's the benefit?
His arguments are simplistic. Foolishly and hyperbolicly so.
4. His contention that models are designed to model what they model is only half correct. They are designed to first model past climate. When they can do that accurately and consistently, they are then considered capable of giving a multititude of possible futures - which is what models are designed to do. The future isn't programmed in. Current conditions are fed into it with possible future changes. What else are you going to do with a model? Is there any other way of doing it? Of course not.
I note in the article he is not regarded a climate scientist. Figures. They rarely are. But I will check this, and his body of work, when I have time.
But if I can destroy his positions being a layman, I have zero hope he will be found to be a reputable climate scholar and researcher.
FIND ME A REAL SCIENTIST. IS THAT SO HARD TO DO? <-- Not yelling. Just making a point.
'Night. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: |
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[quote="keane"]
| sundubuman wrote: |
FIND ME A REAL SCIENTIST. IS THAT SO HARD TO DO? <-- Not yelling. Just making a point.
'Night. |
Sadly, due to the FABULOUS success of your Church at spreading both its propaganda and taxpayer dollars hither and thither...
more and more scientists are beholden to the HOLY CONSENSUS!
That's why I titled the thread Enviro-Facists.
We've come full circle.
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
Long Live The Consensus!!!!!!
What a Happy World when leftists commandeer science.....better for all of us right? |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Looked him up. Not a climate scientist. Bright guy. Worth listening to as far as it goes, but not a climate scientist. As far as I can see, he has done no climate research. Correct me if I am wrong. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
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your own words...
2. His claim that biomass is not considered is crap. The issue of biomass is discussed and considered. As with clouds, it is extremely difficult to model, so best guesses are used.
So you want us to hand over the global economy to a bunch of government bureaucrats (Kyoto)
based on "best guesses"?? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Game...Set...Match?????? |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
your own words...
2. His claim that biomass is not considered is crap. The issue of biomass is discussed and considered. As with clouds, it is extremely difficult to model, so best guesses are used.
So you want us to hand over the global economy to a bunch of government bureaucrats (Kyoto)
based on "best guesses"?? |
Do you understand the practice of science so poorly? |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Do you understand the phenomenon of group formation, sociology, and psychology so poorly. Trust me, you are a victim of all three.
You yourself, just admitted that this whole thing was (in parts) based upon GUESSES.....
and unless you are opposed to Kyoto.... (are you? were you?) or any general government scheme to tax something like carbon emissions (remember, a little science here, we all emit carbon with every breath).....
than well, what can I say?
best of luck with finding something meaningful in this world. because global warming....ain't it.
Better to learn the truth now than when you are freezing your ass off in 2045. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| Do you understand the phenomenon of group formation, sociology, and psychology so poorly. Trust me, you are a victim of all three. |
Quite. It is my background, friend. Being an oil man, do you? The phenomena you speak of are characterized by hysteria and a lack of rational thought or evidence. That is your position, not mine.
I have read what the IEA and EIA have to say. I have read the Hirsch report (Ever heard of it?). I have read the memos from oil companies that have been leaked. I have perused dozens, of charts on production and depletion. I have read of Hubbert and his curve and the many variations. I have read Robelius' (spelling?) thesis.
Have you? No. If so, you would not pretend a majority of oil producing nations are not [typo] in terminal decline. (Why do you act as if this is some outrageous sacrilige, by the way? It is nonsensical.)
I speak of depletion rates and you say, "prove it!"when the evidence is ubiquitous. Proof you have not read, but only listened to your oil buddies and the lies of the CEOs. Are you familiar with a quote from a former top executive with, I believe, BP who said that when he was an executive at that oil company I never told the truth; oil companies never tell the truth?
To do so would go against maintaining stockholders' positive outlook. He was referring to reported reserves. This is, of course, self-evident.
Are you familiar with a former OPEC administrator, or oil minister - I'll have to look it up - who confirmed oil supply problems in OPEC? Are you familiar with - I've mentioned it - the leaked memo from Kuwait that revealed their true reserves to be a fraction of what is officially claimed?
Are you familiar with - I've mentioned it - the arbitrary raising of reserve estimates by OPEC members by multiples of 2 or more in the mid-80's?
Last edited by keane on Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: |
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I believe you have confused your threads.
This is not the Peak Oil thread.
That would be the OTHER SIDE of your new feel-good religion.....
PEAK OIL plus GLOBAL WARMING = Moral/Physical (yet not quite spiritual) Sanctimoniousness... look out Christians!!!!!
Just to remind you.....what it is that is motivating your fervor......
fervor on young man!!!! save us all from the planet!!! errrr.. save the planet from us all!!!!!! |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
I believe you have confused your threads.
This is not the Peak Oil thread. |
What is laughable, is that you think they are not connected. They are intimately connected, friend. Toss in Iraq. It's a tangled web. It's all about chaos and complex systems, friend. |
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