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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
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Third, I question the 'economically surperior position' statement. Single working Korean men and women almost always live at home. The Korean men and women I know have much, much more money in the bank than the average foreign teacher. . |
You might want to read the post again. He didn't say the average foreign teacher. He said the "economically superior position of Western men"
Not all Western men who come here are teachers. |
The fact of the matter is Komerican was referencing the fact that some men were looking to sleep with Korean women because they're exotic. I know for a fact that there are Korean men with the same mentality. Westerners are not wealthier than Koreans per se. Korea is a wealthy country. It's not the Philippines. Maybe Komerican is thinking of the Korea of the 1980s when his family left.
It's not the Korea of today, and I think it's rich to focus on some Kiwi and some Americans on camera looking to get laid in a party district as if there wouldn't be Korean men thinking "I wonder how it would be like to sleep with that white woman over there".
I was listening to a song that had the lyrics "I like them French girls, I like them Italian girls. I like them Spanish girls.".
Do you think many Western guys who are party guys wouldn't want to sleep with French girls? French girls are Western and come from a wealthy country.
I mean most men are curious about sleeping with women from various nationalities because they're straight, and it applies to many women, too. A Korean woman slept with an American friend just so she could experience a white male before getting married to a Korean guy. What's the difference? Komerican overplayed this and ignored the fact that plenty of Koreans are like this. It's called being human. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Nowhere in the video does it say it's part of Western culture to transmit HIV or leave women pregnant, LOL. At most this is more Jersey Shore (a US reality TV program about Italian-Americans) than it is Stormfront. Again, I just think folks are projecting their Western paranoia/ideology about racism onto what was a fairly harmless piece. Sorry folks but the Western history of racism as a model does not fit in the Korean context. |
I'm not projecting anything. In her response, the producer stated that the piece was merely showing cultural differences. Yes, that would be hilarious, save for the fact that the producer actually said it, and the fact that she did says a lot about the mindset behind its production. Jersey Shore it is not. |
Oh please, we're talking about the video. There was no mention of it being western culture. Aren't you ashamed for contributing to this absurd hate-fest? What is your response to the Korean woman's comment that Western men have a distorted view of Korean women? Do you believe that Western men are being �open-minded� when they go looking for Asian women at night clubs, as the Western guy in the video said? LOL... Don't you think that the economically superior position of Western men and their transient status in Asia might give rise to some issues? Why are these topics so taboo for you?  |
Economically superior position? Have you been in Korea lately? That sounds like Korea circa 1970, not Korea in 2012. Besides, it sounds like you have a very cynical view of relationships. Maybe people just love each other. Did you ever consider that? |
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Los Angeloser
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| orosee wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFL instructors do NOT contribute in a meaningful way into the economy because of 2 things. First of all we are less than half of ONE percent of the population. Our contribution is meaningless. [...] |
But isn't that like saying "the seed doesn't contribute to the forest because it's only 1/100,000th of a tree?" |
You failed to quote the second point I made...I don't know whether you just missed it or you realized it destroyed your argument.
Let's look at it again. Joe Smith gets 2.2 million per month to teach here. His goal is to save and pay off his student loans. Now let's say he saves a million per month and sends that home to pay off his student loans. That is money that LEAVES the country. That is as opposed to a native Korean teacher who will be spending that money INSIDE Korea and thus contributing to the Korean economy. That is why NETS are not an asset to the local economy overall...that is money that otherwise would be spent here. |
Your "Joe Smith" comparison to what you said is worse than anyone ignoring the 2nd part of what you said so I'll quote it here and then comment..."They(Korea) should double the salary and halve the positions and place qualifications first and foremost. At 4 million won a month they wouldn't have trouble hiring qualified certifed teachers and it wouldn't cost anymore than now (remember there is only 1/2 the positions). They'd actually save money on the housing and insurance."
You are suggesting 50% of native English teachers aren't qualified but Korean Immigration says we are. So what gives, what problems do you have with 50% of NET's? You sound like a member of Anti-English Spectrum, the only difference is that they'd like practically all NET's to leave. If only those 50% NET's met the moral standards you most certainly have and that Anti-English Spectrum and the Robot maker/promoter refer to. Please let those 50%er's know how to meet the S. Korean moral standards. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| "Qualifications" is just a way of getting around "morals". I think the qualifications the people have are often sufficient for what is being asked and that most of the "morals" which people are complaining about are none of anyone's business and should not be an issue. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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South Koreans prefer young guys straight out of college over older teachers with experience and qualifications. Koreans want frat boys and frat boys they get.
However, judging from what I saw in Anyang's il-bong-ga on a nightly basis over the past year, young Korean males are just as wild as young foreign males and the young Korean women are even wilder. Most people were getting piss drunk and a Korean college student who I had never met even sat beside of me at KFC and told me to finish eating, because she wanted to go to my place and have sex right then.
If Koreans think their sons and daughters are acting like men and women in some of the more conservative countries, they're delusional and aren't well-traveled. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
Korean college student who I had never met even sat beside of me at KFC and told me to finish eating, because she wanted to go to my place and have sex right then.
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Where is this wonderful KFC that you speak of?
lol just joking |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| orosee wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFL instructors do NOT contribute in a meaningful way into the economy because of 2 things. First of all we are less than half of ONE percent of the population. Our contribution is meaningless. [...] |
But isn't that like saying "the seed doesn't contribute to the forest because it's only 1/100,000th of a tree?" |
You failed to quote the second point I made...I don't know whether you just missed it or you realized it destroyed your argument.
Let's look at it again. Joe Smith gets 2.2 million per month to teach here. His goal is to save and pay off his student loans. Now let's say he saves a million per month and sends that home to pay off his student loans. That is money that LEAVES the country. That is as opposed to a native Korean teacher who will be spending that money INSIDE Korea and thus contributing to the Korean economy. That is why NETS are not an asset to the local economy overall...that is money that otherwise would be spent here. |
Your "Joe Smith" comparison to what you said is worse than anyone ignoring the 2nd part of what you said so I'll quote it here and then comment..."They(Korea) should double the salary and halve the positions and place qualifications first and foremost. At 4 million won a month they wouldn't have trouble hiring qualified certifed teachers and it wouldn't cost anymore than now (remember there is only 1/2 the positions). They'd actually save money on the housing and insurance."
You are suggesting 50% of native English teachers aren't qualified but Korean Immigration says we are. So what gives, what problems do you have with 50% of NET's? You sound like a member of Anti-English Spectrum, the only difference is that they'd like practically all NET's to leave. If only those 50% NET's met the moral standards you most certainly have and that Anti-English Spectrum and the Robot maker/promoter refer to. Please let those 50%er's know how to meet the S. Korean moral standards. |
Urban Myth, keeps ignoring the evidence, and a lawyer cannot ignore the evidence. I already stated that Korea is #3 in Asia when it comes to English and #13 in the world. That probably indicates that the EFL instructors have positively contributed to the level of English in Korea, and as English is used to help Korea trade with the world that adds to their GDP. Once someone learns a reasonable amount of English it stays with that person, and that person could use his or English to generate more business year after year for Korea. Suppose some teachers who came in the 1990s helped a certain batch learn English, and they have been generating income for Korea for a long time that would be positive, wouldn't it? The costs spent in 1995 on English are sunk costs.
They're already spent, but you can still generate revenue from those sunk costs. We're dealing with an investment in human capital.
Regarding qualified versus unqualified teachers, all the native speakers of English speak English. In that sense, they're qualified. It has been found that when they compared certified teachers to non-certified ones, they didn't find that the certified teachers particularly stood out. This was based on a study I read.
Perhaps, there would be a difference if you put many teachers with say an M.A.'s or B.A.'s in either linguistics or TESOL. That might make a difference. Korea would have a very difficult time to obtain a larger number of instructors with degrees in those fields. There's a fellow who is constantly invited to speak to EFL instructors in Korea. He has no degree in EFL. He has a science degree. Yet, people all over Korea invite him to speak. Koreans have a lot of respect for him. He's super talented with technology, and he knows how to produce games that are very educational, and he knows how to connect with his students.
I think a lot of this harping on teachers not being qualified enough is partially connected to some xenophobic elements who don't want to praise EFL instructors who have helped Korea become #3 in Asia. I applaud the EFL instructors who came before me in the 1990s, and I salute those who are still here from that time. Where would we be if they didn't come here before us? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| orosee wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFL instructors do NOT contribute in a meaningful way into the economy because of 2 things. First of all we are less than half of ONE percent of the population. Our contribution is meaningless. [...] |
But isn't that like saying "the seed doesn't contribute to the forest because it's only 1/100,000th of a tree?" |
You failed to quote the second point I made...I don't know whether you just missed it or you realized it destroyed your argument.
Let's look at it again. Joe Smith gets 2.2 million per month to teach here. His goal is to save and pay off his student loans. Now let's say he saves a million per month and sends that home to pay off his student loans. That is money that LEAVES the country. That is as opposed to a native Korean teacher who will be spending that money INSIDE Korea and thus contributing to the Korean economy. That is why NETS are not an asset to the local economy overall...that is money that otherwise would be spent here. |
Your "Joe Smith" comparison to what you said is worse than anyone ignoring the 2nd part of what you said so I'll quote it here and then comment..."They(Korea) should double the salary and halve the positions and place qualifications first and foremost. At 4 million won a month they wouldn't have trouble hiring qualified certifed teachers and it wouldn't cost anymore than now (remember there is only 1/2 the positions). They'd actually save money on the housing and insurance."
You are suggesting 50% of native English teachers aren't qualified but Korean Immigration says we are. So what gives, what problems do you have with 50% of NET's? You sound like a member of Anti-English Spectrum, the only difference is that they'd like practically all NET's to leave. If only those 50% NET's met the moral standards you most certainly have and that Anti-English Spectrum and the Robot maker/promoter refer to. Please let those 50%er's know how to meet the S. Korean moral standards. |
I said CERTIFIED teachers and said nothing about morals...that's you fabricating again.
The press would not be able to throw the labels of "inexperienced" and "uncertified" in regards to us as they do now were my scenario to come about. This would be a POSITIVE things for foreign teachers in the long run.
Or we could continue as for now...having the press write more and more negative things about us. I know which option I'd prefer.
And the placing of NETS in the school system was not a long term option anyway...we were due to be phased once the Korean teachers were deemed capable of handing the job...they might well do it right. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| Urban Myth, keeps ignoring the evidence, and a lawyer cannot ignore the evidence. I already stated that Korea is #3 in Asia when it comes to English and #13 in the world. That probably indicates that the EFL instructors have positively contributed to the level of English in Korea, and as English is used to help Korea trade with the world that adds to their GDP. |
That's because it's not evidence. You yourself now state that it only "probably that EFL instructors have positively contributed..."
Probably is assumptive...not evidence.
And anyway that's neither here nor there because I DID NOT SAY THEY HAVEN'T CONTRIBUTED.
I merely said that Korea isn't getting full value for its money. Now how can I say this? Very easily. If even ONE teacher slacks off then Korea is not getting value for its money. Now come on...we've all heard people here and there say that they just do the bare minimum or take all their sick days (even if they aren't sick) and the list of malingering continues.
Sure there are plenty of good decent hard working people here...but there are a fair number of people who are just getting by. That, counselor, you will find impossible to deny I daresay. And since that is my entire argument I think we are done here.
(Unless of course you wish to claim that every EFL teacher here is working to the best of their capabilities each and every day to improve their students' grasp of English) |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
If even ONE teacher slacks off then Korea is not getting value for its money.
...
And since that is my entire argument I think we are done here. |
How enlightening. You've determined that, out of a population of tens of thousands, at least one worker is doing the bare minimum.
Would you like to make any other Earth-shattering claims? Maybe something involving the Sun coming up tomorrow? |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
Korean college student who I had never met even sat beside of me at KFC and told me to finish eating, because she wanted to go to my place and have sex right then.
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Where is this wonderful KFC that you speak of?
lol just joking |
But seriously, where is it? |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
Korean college student who I had never met even sat beside of me at KFC and told me to finish eating, because she wanted to go to my place and have sex right then.
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Where is this wonderful KFC that you speak of?
lol just joking |
But seriously, where is it? |
It's in Anyang, in the il-bong ga area where a lot of bars are. If you come out of Anyang subway station, go to the underground shopping mall at the station and come out of exit 1. This will be about a 10 minute walk. After you come out of the underground mall, hang a left and go to the area with all of the nightlife. The KFC is at the first corner on the left.
Nothing ever happened anytime I ate upstairs. It was after 11 pm on a Friday night when this happened. I usually ate upstairs since there was a lot more space up there, but since I arrived there so late, I assumed rightly or wrongly the upstairs dining area may have been closed and sat at the window downstairs instead. I was sitting and eating when a young Korean lady walked by outside of KFC, and she smiled and waved, as if she knew me. I definitely didn't know her, but I smiled back. She came in and sat at the stool to my left. She wouldn't make eye contact and she was blushing, but she was talking a lot. After introducing herself, she said, "Okay, Hamburger Boy, let's go." I was actually eating a chicken sandwich. I asked, "Where are we going?" She then asked where I lived and said we were going to have sex. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
Korean college student who I had never met even sat beside of me at KFC and told me to finish eating, because she wanted to go to my place and have sex right then.
|
Where is this wonderful KFC that you speak of?
lol just joking |
But seriously, where is it? |
It's in Anyang, in the il-bong ga area where a lot of bars are. If you come out of Anyang subway station, go to the underground shopping mall at the station and come out of exit 1. This will be about a 10 minute walk. After you come out of the underground mall, hang a left and go to the area with all of the nightlife. The KFC is at the first corner on the left.
Nothing ever happened anytime I ate upstairs. It was after 11 pm on a Friday night when this happened. I usually ate upstairs since there was a lot more space up there, but since I arrived there so late, I assumed rightly or wrongly the upstairs dining area may have been closed and sat at the window downstairs instead. I was sitting and eating when a young Korean lady walked by outside of KFC, and she smiled and waved, as if she knew me. I definitely didn't know her, but I smiled back. She came in and sat at the stool to my left. She wouldn't make eye contact and she was blushing, but she was talking a lot. After introducing herself, she said, "Okay, Hamburger Boy, let's go." I was actually eating a chicken sandwich. I asked, "Where are we going?" She then asked where I lived and said we were going to have sex. |
You are such a loser for even taking the time to make this up and you'd have to be stupid to believe this ever happened. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
Korean college student who I had never met even sat beside of me at KFC and told me to finish eating, because she wanted to go to my place and have sex right then.
|
Where is this wonderful KFC that you speak of?
lol just joking |
But seriously, where is it? |
It's in Anyang, in the il-bong ga area where a lot of bars are. If you come out of Anyang subway station, go to the underground shopping mall at the station and come out of exit 1. This will be about a 10 minute walk. After you come out of the underground mall, hang a left and go to the area with all of the nightlife. The KFC is at the first corner on the left.
Nothing ever happened anytime I ate upstairs. It was after 11 pm on a Friday night when this happened. I usually ate upstairs since there was a lot more space up there, but since I arrived there so late, I assumed rightly or wrongly the upstairs dining area may have been closed and sat at the window downstairs instead. I was sitting and eating when a young Korean lady walked by outside of KFC, and she smiled and waved, as if she knew me. I definitely didn't know her, but I smiled back. She came in and sat at the stool to my left. She wouldn't make eye contact and she was blushing, but she was talking a lot. After introducing herself, she said, "Okay, Hamburger Boy, let's go." I was actually eating a chicken sandwich. I asked, "Where are we going?" She then asked where I lived and said we were going to have sex. |
You are such a loser for even taking the time to make this up and you'd have to be stupid to believe this ever happened. |
Should we have an old school Dave's poster ask her through her facebook page if I'm telling the truth? We can do it. |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
Korean college student who I had never met even sat beside of me at KFC and told me to finish eating, because she wanted to go to my place and have sex right then.
|
Where is this wonderful KFC that you speak of?
lol just joking |
But seriously, where is it? |
It's in Anyang, in the il-bong ga area where a lot of bars are. If you come out of Anyang subway station, go to the underground shopping mall at the station and come out of exit 1. This will be about a 10 minute walk. After you come out of the underground mall, hang a left and go to the area with all of the nightlife. The KFC is at the first corner on the left.
Nothing ever happened anytime I ate upstairs. It was after 11 pm on a Friday night when this happened. I usually ate upstairs since there was a lot more space up there, but since I arrived there so late, I assumed rightly or wrongly the upstairs dining area may have been closed and sat at the window downstairs instead. I was sitting and eating when a young Korean lady walked by outside of KFC, and she smiled and waved, as if she knew me. I definitely didn't know her, but I smiled back. She came in and sat at the stool to my left. She wouldn't make eye contact and she was blushing, but she was talking a lot. After introducing herself, she said, "Okay, Hamburger Boy, let's go." I was actually eating a chicken sandwich. I asked, "Where are we going?" She then asked where I lived and said we were going to have sex. |
You are such a loser for even taking the time to make this up and you'd have to be stupid to believe this ever happened. |
Should we have an old school Dave's poster ask her through her facebook page if I'm telling the truth? We can do it. |
Don't know much about Korea NOW, but when I first got there (2003), this story would be VERY believable. I'm thinking it's still quite believable |
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