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JustJohn
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Location: Your computer screen
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 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
1. Dividing by Zero is the same as multiplying by infinity?
2. But you can divide by zero as long as you multiply by zero.
3. And you can also divide by infinity as long as you multiply by infinity.
4. Physics has an infinity problem, all of it's theories can produce an answer that is infinite. This ironically happens mostly when we delve into deeper and deeper into the "smallness" of physics, not when trying to describe something like the huge universe.
5. But we know those things are not infinite, they are finite, such as the charge of an electron, or the mass of an elementary particle, therefore the energy of an electron. But calculating it gives infinite answers, which led to the realization they need a new theory on the small scales, such as QM. |
1. No.
2. No.
3. Not usually.
4. Yes.
5. Yes.
I can explain further if need be. |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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We have a guess that Neptune exists? You say you're not a creationist but you make the same mistake of creationism that equates theory with "guess" A theory, in science, is based upon multiple lines of evidence. All theories are tentative, of course, and subject to later revision and over throw. But that's not the same as a "guess" and it's disingenuous at best to make that claim.
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you are not seeing the woods for the trees my friend . I understand everything about the scientific method and the ways you understand it .You haven't begun to grasp my simple point ....so until you catch up I'm not going to argue with you....and I'm not going to repeat myself...re-read my posts until you get it , then come back to me .
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Like...maybe the universe doesn't like exist and we are just the universe made conscious so the universe does exist but it wouldn't if we didn't so it does but we can't say that we know it does cause maybe it doesn't and we don't but if we don't it can't and if we can't then why would it so it doesn't exist as far as we know it to exist?
Please, someone pull my head out of my arse. |
This all a little tricky for you sunshine ? Someone get the box of 6 crayolas . Little Tommy here's not ready for the big box .
Not everyone questioning the nature of the universe is a smoked up stoner who took a philosophy class once . If you can't tell the difference then my suggestion is not to take your shortcomings out on others.
Napolean . |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Where the Fark am I ?
What the Fark is going on ?
Why the Fark am I speaking to myself ?
Who is Fark ?
The questions are not within the domain of science. They seem like questions answered by philosophy and religion. Science makes no claim on those domains, unless they themselves make testable claims.
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Yup philosophy : cosmology
And religion : science
At the basis of science lies a very , very flawed assumption . That assumption that the laws of physics around us are somewhat representative of the universe as a whole ...and that only things that as testable and falsifiable in the physical realm "exist" and are important . It also assumes that our minds are a result of the universe as we see it, rather than the universe as we see it is a result of the mind .
Now to practice science in the knowledge of these shorcomings is fine .But to walk around like you have the answers and belittle others because you follow the religion of science , is not .
But there is an even greater evil at play . The scientific fundamentalist .
He who , whilsy quite ignorant of the facts of the universe....insists that
a) there is nothing in the universe of significance that can not be tested or observed .
b) That if we reduce everything to it's simplest form it will be predictable and ordered .
If you want to believe that all there is , is that which is observed , then firstly...a) you are not being scientific ....because quantum physics demonstrates without a doubt this is not the case ....
b) It may have worked on some levels ...when we reduced chemicals we found certain properties...when we reduced the brain we found certain neurotransmitters ...when we reduced the body we found certain genes...when we reduced behaviour we found certain socio-biological tendencies......but to assume that carrying on down this path will lead us to the essence and explanation for the human experience....well...firstly THAT IS FAITH ...and no....when we look at the universe...IT IS FAITH THAT FLIES IN THE FACE OF WHAT WE FIND TO BE THE CASE.....
I know you've all run around all smug , belittling christians and the like...i know because I did it more than most people....but I followed my assumptios through to their logical conclusions and at least I've had the modesty to recognise their flaws .......for any critique you have to my universal model...I have the credibility of having once held yours.....so as you might belittled a christian because you once held and tested their views...why then should I not belittle you for having held and tested yours ????
I'll tell you why...because I recognise now the greatest thing to know is that you can know nothing at all....the universe is bursting out of your head and the only thing standing in the way of your freedom is your belief and faith in it ...
Last edited by therooster on Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm rather proud of my "big" questions . If you can think of better "big" questions , I'd love to see them .
Where the Fark am I ?
What the Fark is going on ?
Why the Fark am I speaking to myself ?
Who is Fark ?
Witty . |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my big question:
Why? |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my big question:
Why? |
*rolls eyes
42 . |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Big boys took my crayons and stuck them in my milk  |
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pcs0325
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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therooster, I'm all for philosophical discussion and I've kind of mirrored your transition away from 19th century hard determinism, but the thing that really sticks out and bothers me about your posts is your calling others "my friend". You're one step away from calling others "brothers and sisters". ^o^
Nonetheless, thank you for starting this thread. I love mathematics and I was pleasantly surprised by another's post involving an equation that reduced to 2=1 and yet another poster's correction of it (how the last step is dividing by zero, which isn't allowed). |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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therooster, I'm all for philosophical discussion and I've kind of mirrored your transition away from 19th century hard determinism, but the thing that really sticks out and bothers me about your posts is your calling others "my friend". You're one step away from calling others "brothers and sisters". ^o^
Nonetheless, thank you for starting this thread. I love mathematics and I was pleasantly surprised by another's post involving an equation that reduced to 2=1 and yet another poster's correction of it (how the last step is dividing by zero, which isn't allowed). |
Ha ha ha . Fair enough .
Notice by "my friend" I don't so much mean "friend" as "jerk that disagrees with me " .
I must admit that although I have the aptitude for maths, that it was taught to me so badly at school and totally without context that somehow they manged to make it seem pointless and boring .Only when I started to gain an interest in physics did it occur to me how useful it would have been to have developed this skills set . Oh well.... |
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MA_TESOL
Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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To The Rooster
I have been reading your replies with interest. I have a few questions: Hope they are not too personal and if you had already answered them; my apologies
1. Are you agnostic, Chrsitian, Buddhist, Athiest or some other label?
2. Can you recommend some good books on what been discussed on here. I am very much a novice! However, I am very interested
Thank you Sir |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| therooster wrote: |
At the basis of science lies a very , very flawed assumption . That assumption that the laws of physics around us are somewhat representative of the universe as a whole ...and that only things that as testable and falsifiable in the physical realm "exist" and are important . |
No. Please cite me one scientist that makes that bolded claim. You're creating a straw man. Pure and simple. And your "big questions" are simply not questions science addresses. Again, I'd like to see one research program tackling the "frak gap". Your ideas are sophomoric at best. I just reads like you read QED by Feynman, got a surface impression, and now you think you've got some great revelation for us reductionists. |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
1. Are you agnostic, Chrsitian, Buddhist, Athiest or some other label?
2. Can you recommend some good books on what been discussed on here. I am very much a novice! However, I am very interested
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I'm honestly no expert in anything . I'd be willing to self indulge in what I believe , but I think I'll come across as a pretentious w@nker . I really don't think it's so important what you believe , just don't buy into the hype of the physical world as it's presents it'self to you ...its much stranger and more beautiful .And you don't need to reduce your consciosness to your finite brain chemistry .
I can't recommend anything really . I'm just not qualified . But I'm pleased you are interested and I think if we can manage to pry ourselves away from our addictions to the physical world we can discover much that has the potential to astound us .
The main thing I wanted to discuss here was how limiting , belittling and coldly dehumanising physics has been on the human condition and potential ....which would be fine if it could stand up to it's lofty ideals of validity and truth....but it can't ....so F#ck it ....and F#ck anyone who says it can .
You go ahead and believe in pink elephants flying in your head if you want to...it's no wierder or less valid than anything else....it's your universe and without your dreams and belief in it, it would mean nothing and fail to exist.....the only power it has over you is the belief and faith you put in it .....the path to enlightment is surely dissasociating yourself from your addiction to it.....
once more for emphasis.....without you to experience it the universe will cease to exist in the strongest sense of the word.....
100% totally .....
you may say "no there will still be stars and planets etc" ...but no...there won't be. Because you won't be alive to see them and imagine them , without your consciousness NOTHING WILL EXIST or ever has existed .It needs you to experience for it come into existance just as matter needs energy...you are that energy ....you dreamed it up .......you/we/us ...together....a single infinite consciousness beyond space and time investing ourselves into the universe so that it and we(cause there is no difference ) may experience ourselves. ...
All is god . Everything zen baby.
Last edited by therooster on Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| therooster wrote: |
| Quote: |
1. Are you agnostic, Chrsitian, Buddhist, Athiest or some other label?
2. Can you recommend some good books on what been discussed on here. I am very much a novice! However, I am very interested
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I'm honestly no expert in anything . I'd be willing to self indulge in what I believe , but I think I'll come across as a pretentious w@nker . I really don't think it's so important what you believe , just don't buy into the hype of the physical world as it's presents it'self to you ...its much stranger and more beautiful .And you don't need to reduce your consciosness to your finite brain chemistry .
I can't recommend anything really . I'm just not qualified . But I'm pleased you are interested and I think if we can manage to pry ourselves away from our addictions to the physical world we can discover much that has the potential to astound us .
The main thing I wanted to discuss here was how limiting , belittling and coldly dehumanising physics has been on the human condition and potential ....which would be fine if it could stand up to it's lofty ideals of validity and truth....but it can't ....so F#ck it ....and F#ck anyone who says it can .
You go ahead and believe in pink elephants flying in your head if you want to...it's no wierder or less valid than anything else....it's your universe and without your dreams and belief in it, it would mean nothing and fail to exist.....the only power it has over you is the belief and faith you put in it .....the path to enlightment is surely dissasociating yourself from your addiction to it.....
everything zen baby. |
For someone who admits to knowing nothing about anything you are certainly handing out a lot of advice. |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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No. Please cite me one scientist that makes that bolded claim. You're creating a straw man. Pure and simple. And your "big questions" are simply not questions science addresses. Again, I'd like to see one research program tackling the "frak gap". Your ideas are sophomoric at best. I just reads like you read QED by Feynman, got a surface impression, and now you think you've got some great revelation for us reductionists.
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Oh I'm sorry I'm not posting refrences and haven't had this up any journals to be peer reviewed . So mister reductionist , tell me something I don't know . No...I mean...really .Take your choice of all the sciences and expand upon a body of evidence when reduced and taken to the furthest logical conclusion does not become absurd . There is my challenge for you .
Go on . Reduce my experiences of the world to their smallest common physical denominater . Once you can do that....after you have recieved all the nobel prize , I'll admit your reductionist physics is relevant and important and that I'm nothing more than neurons firing .
You talking to someone who mere weeks ago would call you stupid if you suggested you had free will in any form at all . I think you will find the little tricks that science uses to mask the fact that it has no answers won't work with me....save it buddy (note : i didn't say friend) |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| For someone who admits to knowing nothing about anything you are certainly handing out a lot of advice. |
At least it's only advice . Better than someone prettending they know everything handing out Ultimatums .
For example "If you don't believe everything in the world that exists can be tested and observed...then you are stupid"
*Puts finger and thumb to forehead . |
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