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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Fresh Prince

Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Location: The glorious nation of Korea
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
| mervsdamun wrote: |
Samurai represented a class in Japanese society for hundreds of years. In essence they were military nobility. Most nations had a class of military nobility. Samurai are thus a value neutral class. They could be a force for good as well as evil.
Nazis are much more specific. They existed in a very short period time with the stated aim to wipe out all the Jews and other �undesirables� off the face of the planet and enslave non-Germanic Europeans. In their short time this planet witnesses destruction and mass murder on a unprecedented scale.
I don�t know how good your English is but I hope this helps. |
The techniques for killing and theories of race were not as "developed" during the Imjin War, 1592-8. Also, Koreans were able to defeat the Japanese at sea and on land before the samurai could fully carry out their plans. As it were, about 2 million koreans died during that war, or 20% of the korean population of that time. The Japanese had a plan for world conquest, which the Koreans, with Chinese help, squashed.
Genocide is particularly brutal but brutality comes in many forms and if you're one of the over 100,000 koreans who had their noses cut off by the samurai I think you're going to think the samurai are evil.
Here's the typical western version of the samurai, which I find it hilarious:
"Tom Cruise is very passionate about the principals of the samurai and says they are very near and dear to his heart. "'When I read the Shiseido [the samurai code] it just hit me. Here we talk about honor, loyalty, compassion, heroic courage...but when I read compassion, it said to the samurai if there's no one to help, go out and find someone to help. Those are things in my life as a man that are very important to me. Heroic courage is not blind�it is informed and intelligent. Those are things that resonate; that's how to live a life. Honor. Integrity. Loyalty. Sincerity."'
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200311/20031126/tows_slide_20031126_05.jhtml
Oprah and Cruise should apologize for this crap first. |
I'm not trying to discount the Japanese invasion of Korea but the Koreans actually invaded Japan first, unprovoked, in the late 13th century when they teamed up with the Mongols.
The Korean and Mongol armies launched an attack from Masan but discontinued the attack due to a "divine" wind which made it too risky to cross the sea with reinforcements. |
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Css
Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Location: South of the river
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Teamed up with? Thats a bit of a stretch isnt it?  |
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fusionbarnone
Joined: 31 May 2004
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| komerican wrote: |
If westerners can glamorize the Japanese samurai, like in that ridiculous Tom Cruise movie "The Last Samurai" (as if the passing of the samurai was something to be regretted) then Koreans should be allowed one stupid commercial.
This is yet another case of westerners saying "our sensibilities are to be respected, but Asian sensibilities can be ignored." |
Koreans fought on the side of the Yamamoto(Japs) during the second world war. What would nationalist Koreans(not including patriotic Koreans here) care about sensibilities.
Now, thanks entirely to the cold war, the country OWES it's technological/fiscal leap thanks to western nations and democracy.
Apart from the Vietnam war(best paid job going;three hots an a cot with paid employment), Koreans have had little to do with fighting the good fight against fascism. This Korean nationalistic "sensibility" came through loud and clear when the last Prez. claimed that the "American army presence represents a "tripwire" effect.
Some of the K-folk on the ROK are outrageously and unapologetically so full of themselves. |
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mervsdamun

Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Here is another example of Koreans working together with the "hated"
Japanese. End result, China had to bail them out during the Imjin war, just like the US had to do it in 1945.
For example, he says that nationalism is evident in the textbook statement that all Koreans, regardless of whether they belong to the lower or upper class, cooperated in combating outside forces such as Japan and China which often invaded the Korean Peninsula.
What historical records show, however, is that the poor often sided with the Japanese invaders. "In the 'Imjinwaeran,' or Japanese invasion of Korea in 1592, O Hui-mun, general of the Korean loyalist troops, wrote about his concern that the lower classes welcomed Japanese forces rather than joining his troops. That was because Japanese occupiers distributed rice to villagers," said Lim.
"If the people had been armed with a nationalistic conscience, as the textbooks say, they should have resisted the Japanese."
From
Textbook Nationalism
by Jin Hyun-joo
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=7812 |
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mervsdamun

Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Css wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
I agree, but with what kind of system and by what means do you suggest we get there? |
Thats the million dollar question..I wish I could answer it...I really do. |
The world is too big to be united. People of the world have different approaches to solving problems. Of course we should strive to corporate as much as possible but we have to avoid creating a bland mix of everything; one gigantic monoculture.
I do not want that. |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007 Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps Canada, and Canadians would be better off working to develop a trulyuniversal, one tier healthcare system before talking about uniting the world.
And not giving The Order of Canada to worthless people like David Ahenakew. |
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mervsdamun

Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Here is an interesting post on another chapter of Korea - Japan
Nice photo of Park Chung-hee, South Korea�s president between 1963 in 1979 in an Imperial Japanese Army outfit.
http://forum.rokfootball.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1164 |
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aerosmithfly
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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how the hell did this turn into a discussion of samurais and park jung hee?
lets try to stick to the original topic |
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Pyongshin Sangja

Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Location: I love baby!
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:34 am Post subject: |
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Such illuminating pieces of wisdom as "The Koreans in the Imjin War succeded where the Poles failed in 1939."
Wow. That is seriously twisted. |
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mervsdamun

Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| aerosmithfly wrote: |
how the hell did this turn into a discussion of samurais and park jung hee?
lets try to stick to the original topic |
Some 16 year old troll posted that Korean should be free to admire the Nazis because westerners admire the equally evil samurai. |
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kentucker4

Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Fresh Prince wrote: |
| komerican wrote: |
| mervsdamun wrote: |
Samurai represented a class in Japanese society for hundreds of years. In essence they were military nobility. Most nations had a class of military nobility. Samurai are thus a value neutral class. They could be a force for good as well as evil.
Nazis are much more specific. They existed in a very short period time with the stated aim to wipe out all the Jews and other �undesirables� off the face of the planet and enslave non-Germanic Europeans. In their short time this planet witnesses destruction and mass murder on a unprecedented scale.
I don�t know how good your English is but I hope this helps. |
The techniques for killing and theories of race were not as "developed" during the Imjin War, 1592-8. Also, Koreans were able to defeat the Japanese at sea and on land before the samurai could fully carry out their plans. As it were, about 2 million koreans died during that war, or 20% of the korean population of that time. The Japanese had a plan for world conquest, which the Koreans, with Chinese help, squashed.
Genocide is particularly brutal but brutality comes in many forms and if you're one of the over 100,000 koreans who had their noses cut off by the samurai I think you're going to think the samurai are evil.
Here's the typical western version of the samurai, which I find it hilarious:
"Tom Cruise is very passionate about the principals of the samurai and says they are very near and dear to his heart. "'When I read the Shiseido [the samurai code] it just hit me. Here we talk about honor, loyalty, compassion, heroic courage...but when I read compassion, it said to the samurai if there's no one to help, go out and find someone to help. Those are things in my life as a man that are very important to me. Heroic courage is not blind�it is informed and intelligent. Those are things that resonate; that's how to live a life. Honor. Integrity. Loyalty. Sincerity."'
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200311/20031126/tows_slide_20031126_05.jhtml
Oprah and Cruise should apologize for this crap first. |
I'm not trying to discount the Japanese invasion of Korea but the Koreans actually invaded Japan first, unprovoked, in the late 13th century when they teamed up with the Mongols.
The Korean and Mongol armies launched an attack from Masan but discontinued the attack due to a "divine" wind which made it too risky to cross the sea with reinforcements. |
My adult students would just love you. |
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JustJohn

Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Location: Your computer screen
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| I say let em try to sell their stuff with Nazi ads. Bet they won't get the success in the west like they're thinking/claiming. |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| JustJohn wrote: |
| I say let em try to sell their stuff with Nazi ads. Bet they won't get the success in the west like they're thinking/claiming. |
I agree. I think the better tactic would have been to hunt down the company president and shower him with copious amounts of praise for such an inspired and eloquent piece of advertising. Then, over soju, convince him that he must absolutely market his cosmetics in the west, but with even more Nazi regalia (sp?) Perhaps with some sympathetic music in the background lamenting Hitler's failure to hold both the western and eastern front thus creating the perfect utopian society. Before all this though, I would have set up a secret camera in his office to catch the look on his face as angry westerners run amok, buring Hyundais and Daewoo boom boxes in a fit of national and cultural indignation.  |
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Young FRANKenstein

Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| I am glad that this hit the news. I've been waiting for something to hit the news, because often things don't change until people lose face or get embarassed. |
BUT they are NOT losing face or getting embarrassed. Everytime they do this--and they've had numerous Nazi bars and Nazi-themed TV commercials hit the international media--they bray "Oh, but we didn't know. Please understand us.". No. The first time it happened I understood they were ignorant assbags. Doing it again and again and again each time with the same lame non-apology only proves they are world class unrepentant ignorant assbags.
| Imrahil wrote: |
| What disturbs me is how they keep doing this. First bars and now cosmetics?????? |
I remember years ago they had a Korean "gagman" in full Hitler getup hawking Chocopies in a TV commercial. |
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aerosmithfly
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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let's take a short break here and realize that, before going on with bashing the nazi-promoting advertisement, we understand the complex history of WWII a bit more
"In Germany, the average Jews were victims of the Zionist elite who worked hand in hand with the Nazis. Many of those same Zionist Jews who, in Germany, had worked with the Nazis, came to Israel and joined hands with the Zionist/Communist Jews from Poland and Russia." Jack Berstein
You guys do realize that zionist jews were significant players in the nazi campaign?
Please read up on this stuff if you are interested in learning more http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=5379
http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=184
I'm a jew myself but I'm a pro-America, secular jew, not one of the racist, pro-Israel, zionist ashkenazi jews that control american banks and media, the international banks, and the israel lobbies. I know for a fact that the simplistic "nazis were german, nazis killed 6 million jews" view was an exaggerated, oversimplified, and carefully planned campaign by the zionists and spread across all public school textbooks in much of the western world. What I mean is, I think if people have a better understanding of the complex and truthful history of WW2, they wouldn't be so quick to categorize an ad such as this (which is ignorant and indifferent about history, at most; this ad's main and sole purpose is just marketing) with such simple judgement. |
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