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joshuahirtle27

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Well considering I went to a school that didn't offer a structural engineering degree that may be hard. But I will e-mail one of my professors who has a masters in architecture and ask him. Would you like me to tell you what he says?
Why don't you e-mail some from yours and you can prove me wrong.
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| Instead of not remembering |
... well the reason I don't remember is because NOBODY HAS EVER COME ON ANY MAINSTREAM MEDIA TO DISCREDIT A DEMOLITION BESIDES THE GOVERNMENT AND EVEN THEN NOT TO A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT. Sorry to yell but there was a polar bear on me and I wanted you to be able to hear. I may not have an engineering degree but I do watch television and I am capable of forming thoughts without youtube.
Have YOU seen any structural engineers come on and say "Yeah that's a perfectly reasonable thing for a virtually hollow building, over 100 stories high, if hit in the middle or upper third by a plane, and having been built after 1970 (and much after the plane crash into the Empire State Building in '45) should fall straight down rather than lean over and fall slightly sideways."
Granted the planes were going fast and there wasn't much to stop the building from falling if the plane managed to sever the supporting parts of the sky scraper structure. Leslie Robertson took a then unusual approach � instead of bracing the buildings corner-to-corner or using internal walls, the towers were essentially hollow steel tubes surrounding a central core and perimeter columns sharing the loads. The 208 feet (63.4 m) wide facade was, in effect, a prefabricated steel lattice, with columns on 39 inch (100 cm) centers acting as wind bracing to resist all overturning forces; the central core took the majority of the gravity loads of the building. A very light, economical structure was built by keeping the wind bracing in the most efficient area, the outside surface of the building, thus not transferring the forces through the floor membrane to the core, as in most curtain-wall structures. The core supported the weight of the entire building and the outer shell containing 240 vertical steel columns called around the outside of the building, which were bound to each other using ordinary steel trusses. In addition, 10,000 dampers were included in the structure. With the large core and high load-bearing perimeter for structural integrityhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center (I know Wikipedia isn't an academic source but it's quarter to 1 and I don't want to research) To me that sounds like something that should withstand the force of a plane hitting it.
Please direct me to SOMEONE who has more education about the matter than BOTH of us and I will listen to them... that would be a much better tactic than saying "rather than not remembering" as it is better to say you don't remember something that actually never happened than something that did.
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But like I said, I'm probably just an ignorant Canuck who only has 1 TV set per city and fights polar bears to get to the outhouse.
Yes, it looks like this is a sufficient description. |
I"m going to go out on a limb here and say you've either never been north of the 49th parallel or you're being facetious when you agree to my comment about the actual state of society in Canada. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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A2Steve wrote this: Until then, you just prove your as racist as calculating as you claim the good ol' US of A of being.
To which blaseblasphemener replied: I wasn't aware that questioning a government made one racist. Interesting factoid.
Taking the word 'racist' to mean 'bigot', I posted this: Questioning a government isn't; alleging without proof that it is a mass killer of its own citizens is.
I think the word racist is misused here a lot and believe people are usually trying to express the idea of bigotry or prejudice. I don't feel it's necessary to insert this kind of explanation each and every time I see the mistake. Having seen enough posts where blaseblasphemener displayed what I view as anti-US bigotry, I was replying to what I took as the real meaning of the first post.
There is a pretty large number of posters here at Dave's who are extreme anti-government types. There are also a fair number of conspiracy theorists. There is often a correlation between the two. |
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slideaway77

Joined: 16 Jul 2007
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Some Americans seem to quite angry when you say 9/11 was a stand-up job as if your attacking Armerica. To question the source of the attacks is not an attack on Americans, its an attack on the American government.
Aaron Russo director of "Trading Places" made some good contributions about the source of these attacks as he was once a good buddy of Rockefeller, and Rockefeller allegedly laid it all out, but Russo spilled the beans. Russo passed away recently but you should listen to this:-
http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA[url][/url]
Have a look at this thought provoking clip. People need to start using critical thinking instead of just accepting any old crap we get spoon fed by the big business controlled media. |
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Axiom
Joined: 18 Jan 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Even if you ignore the parts of the OP's link about the 9/11 and Building 7 conspiracies, the treatment of the rescue workers by the US government is appalling IMO.
Or is this a conspiracy as well?? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Well considering I went to a school that didn't offer a structural engineering degree that may be hard. But I will e-mail one of my professors who has a masters in architecture and ask him. Would you like me to tell you what he says? |
You should do that, and yes, let us know. As a small note, a masters in architecture is a masters of drawing. You might want to contact an actual engineer or 20.
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| To me that sounds like something that should withstand the force of a plane hitting it. |
Your school didn't have an engineering department. What the hell do you know?
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| Why don't you e-mail some from yours and you can prove me wrong. |
I've done that. I did a great deal of research on this subject about a year ago. I find the CD theories to be extremely unlikely.
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well the reason I don't remember is because NOBODY HAS EVER COME ON ANY MAINSTREAM MEDIA TO DISCREDIT A DEMOLITION BESIDES THE GOVERNMENT AND EVEN THEN NOT TO A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT.
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Well, do you read books? Matt Taibbi, the political writer for Rolling Stone did just this. His book The Great Derangement takes down the conspiracy theories very properly. He also contacted engineers.
Maybe the reason you don't know about these things is because you're only exposure to information is TV/youtube?
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I"m going to go out on a limb here and say you've either never been north of the 49th parallel or you're being facetious when you agree to my comment about the actual state of society in Canada. |
Other than the 24 years I lived there, maybe? |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003 Location: Coquitlam, BC
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| elzoog wrote: |
Depression is not the only thing anti-depressants are prescribed for. They can also be given to a person to overcome shyness, obsessive compulsive disorder, people wanting to be more social, insomnia, as well as other disorders.
Sometimes, they are even given to babies. |
Don't forget weight-loss. Many are put on Prozac, etc. as a way to help lose weight. |
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joshuahirtle27

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Why do I keep being told that my only source of information is Youtube (and TV. I watch Youtube very rarely...
As for
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| Well, do you read books? Matt Taibbi, the political writer for Rolling Stone did just this. His book The Great Derangement takes down the conspiracy theories very properly. He also contacted engineers. |
I do indeed read books and It's nice to see that someone did some asking. Thank you for pointing me toward it... I'll buy a copy as soon as I can.
What exactly did your sources say? I mean the way I see it the buildings needed to be hit quite differently than they had been in order to fall straight down. I know it's not exactly the same but if you stack a Janga set up and take a section out it will fall more like a Christmas tree than a rock. It makes sense that if the Empire State building could withstand a plane wreck then two super structures built long after that accident would have had safety measures in place to counter the impact of a plane hitting it. But I'll find out when I read the book.
Does your school have a degree in engineering? Is that your major? I only ask because you write very passionately as if you knew everything about this. If that is so than why can you really only offer me someone else's primary and secondary sources.
I know a Masters in Architecture is a Masters in drawing. That was the point. The closest person to a structural engineer I have on my e-mail list is an architect. You seem to have quite the plethora of engineering grads on yours, why don't you have them e-mail me because I'd be eager to discuss it with them and find out where my fallacies lie (outside of reading your acclaimed book)
I'm not going to say it was a government conspiracy... I'm saying it's convenient that the buildings fell the way they did. |
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Thunndarr

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Why is it that every recent college grad in Korea has to re-invent the wheel by re-posting these assinine conspiracy theories, as if the last 7 years hadn't seen enough of them come, subsequently get debunked, and go? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Because of youtube. The democratization of information has had some obnoxious results. |
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Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Location: In Cognito
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe if the people who reviewed the incident hadn't done such a half-assed job. The official report was a pile of holey crap and the media sensationalism surrounding it certainly didn't help.
I remember watching it on TV that morning (and catching the second plane hitting the building) and initial casualty estimates were somewhere in the range of 50'000 people. That's just a small example of how the whole thing has been a liberal and conservative media circus from day one.
In 2001 there were ten times as many gun related deaths than deaths as a result of 911. Where's the war on guns? |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Underwaterbob wrote: |
Maybe if the people who reviewed the incident hadn't done such a half-assed job. The official report was a pile of holey crap and the media sensationalism surrounding it certainly didn't help.
I remember watching it on TV that morning (and catching the second plane hitting the building) and initial casualty estimates were somewhere in the range of 50'000 people. That's just a small example of how the whole thing has been a liberal and conservative media circus from day one.
In 2001 there were ten times as many gun related deaths than deaths as a result of 911. Where's the war on guns? |
I agree it has been a clusterfuck of shitty outcomes. But an 'inside job', it was not. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| elzoog wrote: |
| In fact, wouldn't it be much cheaper just to fly an airplane into a building than to do all of that planning and all of that consulting with structural engineers? |
Umm, a 767 runs between $125 and 170 million, off the shelf. The Kingdom demolition, to use one example, cost $9 million.
Other things to consider: The Kingdom used over 21 miles of demolition cord. I'm sure the WTCs would have used at least as much. Yet no demolition cords have been found at Ground Zero. Nor were there any explosions which resemble a real controlled demolition. Not in WTCs 1, 2, or 7. How can there be a controlled demolition without any explosives? |
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Thunndarr

Joined: 30 Sep 2003
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Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| elzoog wrote: |
| In fact, wouldn't it be much cheaper just to fly an airplane into a building than to do all of that planning and all of that consulting with structural engineers? |
Umm, a 767 runs between $125 and 170 million, off the shelf. The Kingdom demolition, to use one example, cost $9 million.
Other things to consider: The Kingdom used over 21 miles of demolition cord. I'm sure the WTCs would have used at least as much. Yet no demolition cords have been found at Ground Zero. Nor were there any explosions which resemble a real controlled demolition. Not in WTCs 1, 2, or 7. How can there be a controlled demolition without any explosives? |
Magic Elves. I'm right, and it's up to you to prove they weren't there. |
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