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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| Why does a nation that awes the world with its IT prowess... score so dismally in global sports? |
To ask the question is to answer it.  |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
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India always sucks at the Olympics. Field hockey (India are the Asian champions), cricket, shooting and Kabaddi are a few of the sports where India has international training and development facilities. India also has the world chess champion to its name. They don't have facilities after school boy level in major sports because they are simply not willing to invest money and develop further. Although one major sport, golf, is gaining popularity fast in India and there is investment there.
India has a lot of sporting achievements to its name in minor sports (in a way a bit like Korea). Actually going to this wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_of_India
shows that India are probably slightly better in sports than what many people may believe.
But the Olympics are always going to be about the rich countries. Look at the medals list for this year.
One thing is for sure though, whoever unearths the first professional class soccer player will be onto an absolute gold mine.
Ya-ta Boy
Interesting article but I would take issue on the interest in sports point. Indians of all ages love sports but the interest gets suffocated after school boy level (except in cricket) and India, as such, cannot compete on the international stage (hence yor statistic on the investment compared with China). |
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shifter2009
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Location: wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
| While America is, as of this writing, in the lead, I wouldn't call her performance at these games dominance. |
This year isn't our strongest performance but considering the dirty commies got home field advantage I'd say its been a pretty successful run. I was surprised how consistently the USSR was out medaling us back in the day. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:01 am Post subject: ... |
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I hate to put a damper on all this waxing sentimental about the American competitive ethic, but it kind of reminds me of the Japanese talking about their superior work ethic back in the 80s.
Population certainly plays a big role. When you compare medals per capita, what country is producing the most Olympic medalists?
A quick look says:
Australia. 1 medalist per 600,000 people.
Next, I believe, is Jamaica. 1 per 695,000.
USA? 1 medalist per 4,449,000.
"Good" news? PRC=1 medal per 19,716,000.
"Bad" news? South Korea=1 medal per 2,229,000
Doh!
So, clearly, studying your brains out at hagwons till midnight works better than middle school athletic programs.
Of course, tomorrow, y'all can ask your students for tips on how to produce Olympians. I'm sure they'll be more than willing to wax. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Why does America dominate the Olympics? |
They don't.
Sorry to burst your self-congratulatory bubble, but China are ahead of you. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why does America dominate the Olympics? |
They don't.
Sorry to burst your self-congratulatory bubble, but China are ahead of you. |
Rooting for China won't help your home country win. Just felt like mentioning that. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
| While America is, as of this writing, in the lead, I wouldn't call her performance at these games dominance. |
OP's assertion does not have to do with this year's Olympic games alone. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
I hate to put a damper on all this waxing sentimental about the American competitive ethic, but it kind of reminds me of the Japanese talking about their superior work ethic back in the 80s.
Population certainly plays a big role. When you compare medals per capita, what country is producing the most Olympic medalists?
A quick look says:
Australia. 1 medalist per 600,000 people.
Next, I believe, is Jamaica. 1 per 695,000.
USA? 1 medalist per 4,449,000.
"Good" news? PRC=1 medal per 19,716,000.
"Bad" news? South Korea=1 medal per 2,229,000
Doh!
So, clearly, studying your brains out at hagwons till midnight works better than middle school athletic programs.
Of course, tomorrow, y'all can ask your students for tips on how to produce Olympians. I'm sure they'll be more than willing to wax. |
Study some statistics. Medals per capita doesnt measure anything. While having a bigger gene pool can help, each country can only send the same number of athletes or teams. Does China get to enter 50 ping pong players because their popultaion is 50 times bigger tham most countries? Does the US get to send 5 mens basketball teams?
Pound for pound Id say that Australia is the best sporting nation in the world. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| cannot compete on the international stage (hence yor statistic on the investment compared with China). |
Not my statistic. I felt the article supported what the Americans on the thread have been saying: sporting culture, opportunity and money are the key elements. At this point, India just hasn't been able to provide opportunity and money for a successful Olympic run. Given the rivalry between India and China, now that India has money I suspect things will begin to change there. In 20 or 30 years there may be a new rival on the block for everyone.
| Quote: |
| I was surprised how consistently the USSR was out medaling us back in the day. |
I was thinking about this this morning when I noticed Russia is at 36 and the US at 72. So I added Ukraine's 16, Belarus' 11, Kazakhstan's 8, Azerbaijan's 8, Armenia's 5, Georgia's 3, Uzbekistan's 3, Kyrgyzstan's 3, Estonia's 1, Lithuania's 1, Tajiistan's 1 and the 'USSR' has a total of 96. |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why does America dominate the Olympics? |
They don't.
Sorry to burst your self-congratulatory bubble, but China are ahead of you. |
How do you figure? |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| I noticed Russia is at 36 and the US at 72. So I added Ukraine's 16, Belarus' 11, Kazakhstan's 8, Azerbaijan's 8, Armenia's 5, Georgia's 3, Uzbekistan's 3, Kyrgyzstan's 3, Estonia's 1, Lithuania's 1, Tajiistan's 1 and the 'USSR' has a total of 96. |
A damn good point, though were the Soviet Union still extant, do you think all of the olympians fielded by each of the above states would still have been sent?
Still, the point has merit. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Beej wrote: |
Study some statistics. Medals per capita doesnt measure anything. While having a bigger gene pool can help, each country can only send the same number of athletes or teams. Does China get to enter 50 ping pong players because their popultaion is 50 times bigger tham most countries? Does the US get to send 5 mens basketball teams?
Pound for pound Id say that Australia is the best sporting nation in the world. |
How about YOU study some common sense. The point he was trying to make is that China's population triples that of the US; therefore it would be statistically bound to have triple the number of capable athletes; aka a much larger sample size of 'the best'. Take the best 20 from a pool of ten thousand, and take the best 20 from a pool of one million: who should prevail?
Unless: the pool of one-billion (Joong-Gook) is a backwards communist dictatorship which stifles potential and earns the scorn of most of the world.
I agree with what you say about Australia. |
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stevieg4ever
Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Location: London, England
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I agree, just for the record I meant the stat you quoted.
Very good point about the former soviet block.
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| cannot compete on the international stage (hence yor statistic on the investment compared with China). |
Not my statistic. I felt the article supported what the Americans on the thread have been saying: sporting culture, opportunity and money are the key elements. At this point, India just hasn't been able to provide opportunity and money for a successful Olympic run. Given the rivalry between India and China, now that India has money I suspect things will begin to change there. In 20 or 30 years there may be a new rival on the block for everyone.
| Quote: |
| I was surprised how consistently the USSR was out medaling us back in the day. |
I was thinking about this this morning when I noticed Russia is at 36 and the US at 72. So I added Ukraine's 16, Belarus' 11, Kazakhstan's 8, Azerbaijan's 8, Armenia's 5, Georgia's 3, Uzbekistan's 3, Kyrgyzstan's 3, Estonia's 1, Lithuania's 1, Tajiistan's 1 and the 'USSR' has a total of 96. |
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MANDRL
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Beej wrote: |
Pound for pound Id say that Australia is the best sporting nation in the world. |
If we are using this Olympics as a gauge, as of today, Australia received gold medals in 4 different categories (swimming, rowing, triathalon, and sailing) while the United States received gold medals in 9 different categories (swimming, track & field, gymnastics, shooting, fencing, rowing, equestrian, cycling, and tennis).
Pound for pound I'd say that the United States is the best sporting nation in the world. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Location: Eungam Loop
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
| Beej wrote: |
Study some statistics. Medals per capita doesnt measure anything. While having a bigger gene pool can help, each country can only send the same number of athletes or teams. Does China get to enter 50 ping pong players because their popultaion is 50 times bigger tham most countries? Does the US get to send 5 mens basketball teams?
Pound for pound Id say that Australia is the best sporting nation in the world. |
How about YOU study some common sense. The point he was trying to make is that China's population triples that of the US; therefore it would be statistically bound to have triple the number of capable athletes; aka a much larger sample size of 'the best'. Take the best 20 from a pool of ten thousand, and take the best 20 from a pool of one million: who should prevail?
Unless: the pool of one-billion (Joong-Gook) is a backwards communist dictatorship which stifles potential and earns the scorn of most of the world.
I agree with what you say about Australia. |
But see you are wrong. I did say that a bigger population and gene pool will give an advantage, but this has nothing to do with medals per capita as the poster stated. There is a limit to the amount of athletes you can send. |
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