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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| This is too funny, you are really annoyed Kiwi. I have yet to see you win an argument with Gord and it seems you realize this too, getting your panties in a bunch over some internet posts. Accept the fact that you have lost this argument. |
Hi, if you read it all carefully there is no argument in this thread other than that Gord is a troll. And you may not have seen me win an argument with Gord, and I guess in Gords mind no one ever does, that doesn't win him any friends though. And the black music debate is not over, I have the info to make that clear cut, and it will be going up as soon as I have time.
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The more you try to backpedal, twist the argument and change your position to counter Gord the worse off you sound, insults don't help your position either. |
Hey I don't expect you to be interested enough in this to read it thoroughly but I'm not twisting anything, I clearly rescinded the only thing he has against me, and he has not rescinded his 44 hour govt stuff, which was a total red herring. And I insult Gord for a very simple reason, he sucks!  Just because he refrains from insulting me doesn't mean he doesn't suck. In any case, the way he posts is an insult to any normal person.
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ord is a cool guy, if you ever have the chance to meet him I'm sure you'd agree. Granted, his posts seem a little critical but he generally provides correct information and backs it up with references rather than conjecture. |
Sometimes he does provided correct information, the stuff about the 44 hours for Korean workers was correct, yes, and also utterly irrelevant, that's his MO and what I object to.
And you're free to choose your friends as you see fit, but no, Gord is not a "cool guy", he's the diametric opposite of that, and all the googled info in the world won't ever make him cool. |
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Down from Above
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Location: Naju
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| If you check Gords posting history you will see that he rarely if ever enters a thread to do anything but dissagree or prove people wrong somehow. |
This is (for the most part) true. But there's no rule against that on this board, nor should there be. |
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applepie
Joined: 30 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord 1 = Kiwiboy99 0 |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| This is (for the most part) true. But there's no rule against that on this board, nor should there be. |
As for what should be, that's not a productive discussion as we don't make the rules. I know that trolling is not allowed. Here is a part of a trolling definition ...
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| A troll is deliberately crafted to provoke others with the intention of wasting their time and energy. A troll is a time thief. To troll is to steal from people. That is what makes trolling heinous. |
So posting about the 44 hour government overtime law when it had absolutely no relation to els teachers certainly was wasting our time. Coming in to a thread to show someone is wrong from a pedandtic literalist perspective, while adding nothing helpful or productive according to the intentions of the OP is wasting peoples time.
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| Also note that a troll isn't necessarily insulting, snide, or even impolite. Only the crudest, most obvious, forms of trolling can be identified so easily. |
Don't be fooled the slick style and the fact that he usually refrains from personal insults.
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| If you find yourself patiently explaining, at length and in great detail, some obscure point to someone who isn't even being polite to you, then you are probably being trolled. |
It's certainly taking me a lot of work to explain to Gord that that I have rescinded the statement that "50 equals 60 by law", yet he wants to bring it up over and over, proving he is more interested in conflict than resolution. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| It's certainly taking me a lot of work to explain to Gord that that I have rescinded the statement that "50 equals 60 by law", yet he wants to bring it up over and over, proving he is more interested in conflict than resolution. |
Revisionist history. I had posted one reply since you originally recanted your statement as being nothing more than a work of fiction. But in the same posting in which you recanted your posting as being nothing more than a work of fiction you also denied you had stated that the law required 50 minutes be rounded up to 60, and then in the same message you later say that your original opinion (which you just claimed to have never said and then claimed to have now recanted) now remains unchanged and correct, and that 50 minutes must be rounded up to 60 by law. All in one posting.
Hence my reply of "100% noise, no signal" and requesting you clarify your position as you were playing every single angle. While it's convienent to now say "I recanted my position, why do you keep bringing it up!", it's misleading to forget that you also claimed that you were correct and did not recant, and denied ever saying it in the first place.
Since then you have openly recanted your statement as being nothing more than a work of fiction, and I left it at that. These postings of mine where you claim I am continually going bringing up this issue after you recanted is simply false as you try to rebuilt the shattered remains of your credability. Debate's over, let it go.
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| So posting about the 44 hour government overtime law when it had absolutely no relation to els teachers certainly was wasting our time. Coming in to a thread to show someone is wrong from a pedandtic literalist perspective, while adding nothing helpful or productive according to the intentions of the OP is wasting peoples time. |
Regarding your "red herring - labour standards act" attack, my posting of a link to the act was simply part of the explanation. You cited that "the law" required 50 minutes be credited as 60 and that overtime be paid beyond that. A reply came up that 50 is 60 at most schools and that overtime is paid after 30. I simply brought up the labour standards act that clearly shows that there is no 50 is 60 law and that overtime begins at 44 hours. Technically teaching extra classes isn't really overtime but simply a payment for extra work. That is "the law".
I find great amusement in that you, the guy who made up laws out of the air, is complaining about me linking to the actual law. Damn me and my dirty tricks.
I also find great humour that you typed almost a thousand words in defending your work of fiction before you finally agreed without revision that your statement was a work of fiction and recanted.
Finally, I find unbelievable humour in that you are now debating the debate in which you admit to making things up, and here you are trying to post a revisionist version of events that everyone can read and see you are making up. If I link to this thread, will you complain that my links are off topic, red-herring, and damn dirty tricks?
I'm done. I am feeling such pity towards you and your postings that now that I can't continue on. I only meant to demonstrate you were making things up, not murder what's left on your reputation by letting you hang yourself over and over. |
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The Man known as The Man
Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Location: 3 cheers for Ted Haggard oh yeah!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| 100% NOISE, NO SIGNAL |
Other than prancing around like it's amateur hour at club flame, are you going to back up your original claims of how not rounding up 50 minutes into an hour is against the law with any sort of fact? |
Blueflower, you know what cracks me up?
I am looking forward to the day where the 3 of us will be having a congenial beer.
What's even better than that is that I will be the peacemaker at that gathering.
Think about that, and Happy New Year.
andie, did you have a very stupid holiday? YES. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| [ I simply brought up the labour standards act that clearly shows that there is no 50 is 60 law and that overtime begins at 44 hours. . |
Then why do the majority of hakwons pay us overtime at 30? Most hakwons offer this in a contract. Do these overtime laws even relate to us, as we are (technically speaking) part-time workers? If they do, see above question. If they don't, it isn't germane to the issue. |
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ratslash
Joined: 08 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| they don't mean a firkin thing. a contract is a 'gentlman's agreement'. the thing is, there are no gentleman in korea..... |
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prairieboy
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Location: The batcave.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ratlash hit the nail right on the head.
Cheers dude! It's about time somebody said that. |
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ratslash
Joined: 08 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| there i go again, killing a post! |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Well, at least it's not just us teachers. Man, if people as qualified as pilots get treated like this, I guess my CELTA isn't really gonna impress anyone.
The article is here: http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/aviation/korean_audit.htm
The following internal safety audit report into Korean Airlines flying operations was conducted in late 1998 by pilots employed by KAL. The KAL Safety Audit report was allegedly part of a wider program being overseen by Delta Airlines of America. The Delta Audit of KAL was allegedly required by the US Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) and insurance companies in the wake of the Korean Airlines B747 crash at Guam on 06/08/97 (Flt 801) as a precursor to the setting up of a proposed code sharing arrangement between KAL and Delta Airlines.
Under "Management feedback from crews"
18. Foreign Captains do not trust the Korean management with respect to contracts. Foreign pilots who join Korean Air make a major career decision and initial contracts involved long term employment with upgrades. However, Korean management has proved that contracts are not honored. Contracts are changed at will and constantly broken. Recently a group of Indonesians with 8 years service with Korean Air resigned and left for Singapore Airlines. The reason being that they had a 400 conversion written into their contract and Korean had no intention of honoring this commitment despite their lengthy, reliable and professional service.
32. Foreign crews get no feedback from Korean Management. Most briefings are conducted in Korean and notices are in written in Korean. This sends a clear message of segregation to the foreign crews.
37. Foreign Captains do not know whom they work for. They do not know if they are answerable to their Fleet Captain/ Chief Pilot or the Foreign Captains office. The only English letter of communication to the Foreign Captains this year was a letter of intent to terminate 50 crew in February. As this notice has not been rescinded, over one half of the foreign crew have successfully sought alternative employment and the rest are in the process of doing so.
38. Foreign Captains who are, for whatever reason to be terminated, are rostered for an unscheduled simulator session or medical. Either will result in a failure. This is a career destroying practice and is another reason why foreign crew would rather resign from Korean Air now than face this sort of dismissal. No future employer will employ some one who has just failed a simulator check or medical with Korean Air or any other company. Management must try and build trust and confidence between itself and the employees.
[url][/url] |
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lookingtoteach
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm in Korea now and at a school. So, I don't care about the last contract mishap. |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Well guys, here's how I see it. Since Korean contracts are worthless by Western standards and you know that you can very easily be ripped off, why even worry about it?! If you're not getting what you want, simply take off, a midnight run. They didn't hold their end of the bargain, you didn't yours.
I was in Korea a few years back and discovered that ultimately if I wanted to make money, it had to be back home (Canada). I loved the traveling part, but that's it.
It is so rare that I read or hear about a good working experience in Korea.
Thank you very little! |
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ratslash
Joined: 08 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Deconstructor wrote: |
Well guys, here's how I see it. Since Korean contracts are worthless by Western standards and you know that you can very easily be ripped off, why even worry about it?! If you're not getting what you want, simply take off, a midnight run. They didn't hold their end of the bargain, you didn't yours.
I was in Korea a few years back and discovered that ultimately if I wanted to make money, it had to be back home (Canada). I loved the traveling part, but that's it.
It is so rare that I read or hear about a good working experience in Korea.
Thank you very little! |
well said dude. if people are complaining about your contracts then go home. here it is in black and white for everybody who is in this country or is maybe thinking about coming to work in korea: CONTRACTS DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING IN KOREA. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Deconstructor and ratslash,
It seems so easy. What if Korea is your home? |
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