|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bundangbabo wrote: |
And if you like to watch Barca and go out of your way to watch them on the telly - surely you support them whoever they are playing against? |
Not really. When they played Chelsea in the euro cup semis, I supported them I suppose because they were playing the football and Chelsea weren't. Theoretically if they stopped playing this particular style then I would stop supporting them. Whereas with Celtic and Derry, I would always support them even though both of them play tosh.
My dad is what you would call a liberated fan. Doesn't support anyone and just watches teams who play it the right way. I can see myself going that way.
Wales and Peru..I feel for you.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| calicoe wrote: |
America was a multi-racial and multi-national society from its inception, and then became the nation of immigrants. It's quite simple really, we ALL are from somewhere else or something other than white, anglo-saxon and proud of it. So, the hyphens are relevant, because that is also what it means to be an American.
So, it's your problem if you don't understand.
. |
Crap. You are not from somewhere else. You are from America. Unless of course you are from somewhere else, in which case you are not American.
Australia has a similar history where everyone is from somewhere else and I don't see my Australian relatives bleating about their Irishness.
The WASP thing is the crux I think. White americans need to be different in some way. Pretty pathetic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
calicoe
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Location: South Korea
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I find it interesting how others try to impose their opinions about how America and Americans should define themselves, even when they have no clue, and then judge us accordingly.
First of all, there are plenty of Americans who were born in other countries who ARE Americans, because they became citizens after immigrating. And actually, there really isn't any other country with the same history, which has been identified as a nation of multi-national and multi-racial immigrants for so long and on such scale. The history of immigration in most other Western democracies is much more recent and small-scale in comparison. Hence, our core identity IS as a nation of immigrants.
The stories of immigration and passage to American citizenship are still writ large in the history of many ethnic and white ethnic families not that long ago, and has become part of their cultural tapestry and patchwork-nature of the country's ethnic groups and historical development.
Secondly, I'm a mixed-race American from a multi-racial background, including my parents and grandparents. My family runs the racial gamut, and I have genes which predominately reflect my white side. That is all fine and well, but in name, familial ties, and demographics I am also from another heritage of which I am not only proud, but refuse to allow to be whitewashed simply because some white Australian doesn't understand and finds me pathetic for doing so. I find that pompous and completely intolerant.
I am sure it is the same for many Polish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans, Iranian-Americans, African-Americans, and on and on who each have their own rich history and ethnic sub-cultures, quite possibly in Australia as well.
We are not WASPS, plain and simple, and don't wish to be lumped into one indistinguishable mass simply for the convenience of others. Nor should we, because our looks, sub-cultures and experiences are different, and there's nothing wrong with being different in a real multi-cultural society. Hence, we are hyphenated.
I understand how this causes an inconvenience for some haters who like nothing more than to lump us all into one hated stereotype of Americans to pour scorn upon, but, I guess you'll have to be more creative in your hate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am not Australian. I have relatives in Australia and America and the UK.
You are desperate to be defined as something else other than American. That is clear. But you are still American.
BTW, American does not mean white..or Anglo Saxon or protestant or to be scorned. It means simply that you are from there. Deal with it.
I could give a crap where your ancestors are from. If I did, I'd call myself African-Irish. I'm pretty sure my ancestors occupied the rift valley at some point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'll quote Kiwiboy_NZ
" I am a human being" |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| calicoe wrote: |
| I find it interesting how others try to impose their opinions about how America and Americans should define themselves, even when they have no clue, and then judge us accordingly. |
Right. Saying one is Irish or German, instead of Irish- or German-American, is just a shorthand. These Americans don't actually think they're from Ireland or from Germany. They're just expressing something about their ancestry. They are trying to be friendly and make a connection.
| JMO wrote: |
You are desperate to be defined as something else other than American. That is clear. But you are still American.
BTW, American does not mean white..or Anglo Saxon or protestant or to be scorned. It means simply that you are from there. Deal with it.
I could give a crap where your ancestors are from. |
You are not really the point.
Sometimes I feel like its less an anti-American thing and its more like a-lot-of-Westerners-are-children thing (Americans of course included). |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
eamo

Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
|
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| itaewonguy wrote: |
I'll quote Kiwiboy_NZ
" I am a human being" |
Yeah! Miss that guy.........
Kiwiboy, I'm a human being too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kuros wrote: |
Right. Saying one is Irish or German, instead of Irish- or German-American, is just a shorthand. These Americans don't actually think they're from Ireland or from Germany. They're just expressing something about their ancestry. They are trying to be friendly and make a connection.
|
But...English, Australians, Scots, New Zealanders generally in my experience(relations except NZ) do not do this, even people whose parents are from Ireland refer to themselves as English..or whatever.
North Americans do not want to be 'American' or 'Canadian' because they think that means WASP.
Really though it is a horrible way to make a connection. Say 'I have family in...' might make a connection. Saying 'I am..' makes you a pretender.
BTW and I'm going to let people into a little secret. The reason there are so many 'Irish' in the states is because Ireland sucked and largely still does. Americans, do yourself a favor, and drop the baggage of the shitty, wet, church ridden countries your ancestors came from. And please don't visit. Why? Because Ireland sucks. Go to a hot country with some interesting history. Really..there is a reason why I don't live in Ireland. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bundangbabo
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
|
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JMO wrote: |
Wales and Peru..I feel for you.. |
No need to be - Peru has a far superior record to the Republic of Ireland in the world cup and we didn't have to resort to recruiting clodhoppers from a foreign land using the 'granny' rule.
Wales in their only world cup got to a quarter final - losing by the only goal to Pele's Brazil - all 11 of the players in that Wales side were born in Wales - Ireland haven't done any better... (Unless we talk about Northern Ireland and their 2 world cup quarter final apperances.. ) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bundangbabo wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
Wales and Peru..I feel for you.. |
No need to be - Peru has a far superior record to the Republic of Ireland in the world cup and we didn't have to resort to recruiting clodhoppers from a foreign land using the 'granny' rule.
Wales in their only world cup got to a quarter final - losing by the only goal to Pele's Brazil - all 11 of the players in that Wales side were born in Wales - Ireland haven't done any better... (Unless we talk about Northern Ireland and their 2 world cup quarter final apperances.. ) |
Peru! I did not know that they had world cup record even. good for them.
I'll take Northern Ireland too because my ma is from there..hypocrite! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bundangbabo
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
|
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| John_ESL_White wrote: |
So, we all agree, Irish-Americans are aholes.
How about the Italian-Americans?
I've NEVER met someone who claimed to be an Italian American who also DIDN'T claim their father was in the mob.
And, I've NEVER met an "Italian-American" who could speak Italian.
Even in NYC. The kids (20s-30s) who say they are Italian and their pops' are in the mafia can't speak Italian.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, your great great great grandfather came to the states 200 years ago. Then Francis Ford Copola made some movies glorifying the Italian Mafia. THEN, you bought a track suit, a gold chain, and started acting like a gangster.
Pitiful. |
I think your problem is that you don't like catholics
You don't like the Irish and you don't like the Italians - hmmm - what and where is the link?
Are you by any chance of Ulster-Scots ancestry?
'No pope in Rome - no chapel to sadden my eyes'
Is this you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_White_(loyalist) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
AmericanExile
Joined: 04 May 2009
|
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| calicoe wrote: |
I find it interesting how others try to impose their opinions about how America and Americans should define themselves, even when they have no clue, and then judge us accordingly.
First of all, there are plenty of Americans who were born in other countries who ARE Americans, because they became citizens after immigrating. And actually, there really isn't any other country with the same history, which has been identified as a nation of multi-national and multi-racial immigrants for so long and on such scale. The history of immigration in most other Western democracies is much more recent and small-scale in comparison. Hence, our core identity IS as a nation of immigrants.
The stories of immigration and passage to American citizenship are still writ large in the history of many ethnic and white ethnic families not that long ago, and has become part of their cultural tapestry and patchwork-nature of the country's ethnic groups and historical development.
Secondly, I'm a mixed-race American from a multi-racial background, including my parents and grandparents. My family runs the racial gamut, and I have genes which predominately reflect my white side. That is all fine and well, but in name, familial ties, and demographics I am also from another heritage of which I am not only proud, but refuse to allow to be whitewashed simply because some white Australian doesn't understand and finds me pathetic for doing so. I find that pompous and completely intolerant.
I am sure it is the same for many Polish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans, Iranian-Americans, African-Americans, and on and on who each have their own rich history and ethnic sub-cultures, quite possibly in Australia as well.
We are not WASPS, plain and simple, and don't wish to be lumped into one indistinguishable mass simply for the convenience of others. Nor should we, because our looks, sub-cultures and experiences are different, and there's nothing wrong with being different in a real multi-cultural society. Hence, we are hyphenated.
I understand how this causes an inconvenience for some haters who like nothing more than to lump us all into one hated stereotype of Americans to pour scorn upon, but, I guess you'll have to be more creative in your hate. |
You are absolutely right. I guess you have to be an American to understand Americans. 1 out of every 5 households in Illinois speaks something other than English as a first language. I had a roommate at college who was Greek. Not a Greek-American, but a Greek whose family had moved to Chicago less than 2 years before he came to school. Immigration to the US has never stopped.
To identify yourself as Irish-American or German-American is just good manners. It is a way of letting the newbies know that they are not less than just because they were not born in the States. I guess you have to be an American to get that.
However, it needs to be pointed out that we are not the only users of hyphens. French-Canadian. Anglo-Irish. People in most countries find ways to sub-divide themselves. I was told by a French girl that there is a difference between being French and Parisian.
It is a story as old as King Nimrod. The American twist to the tale is that to us difference and sameness are one uttered in the same breath. Every country has its own beauty. This is part of ours. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AmericanExile wrote: |
Anglo-Irish.
. |
Anglo-Irish is a term for the protestant ruling class in Ireland pre free state.(ie in the 1800s) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
AmericanExile
Joined: 04 May 2009
|
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JMO wrote: |
| AmericanExile wrote: |
Anglo-Irish.
. |
Anglo-Irish is a term for the protestant ruling class in Ireland pre free state.(ie in the 1800s) |
It is still used today. As I said before, I lived there. I've heard it. Any fool can look things up on the internet. It doesn't mean you actually know anything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
|
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| AmericanExile wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| AmericanExile wrote: |
Anglo-Irish.
. |
Anglo-Irish is a term for the protestant ruling class in Ireland pre free state.(ie in the 1800s) |
It is still used today. As I said before, I lived there. I've heard it. Any fool can look things up on the internet. It doesn't mean you actually know anything. |
Sorry, but I know that from secondary school leaving cert history, which I aced. Anyone who studied Parnell for example, would know the term.
I have never heard anglo-irish except in the historic sense. Possibly it is different down south. Where did you live in Ireland? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|