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thoreau
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| Cordova wrote: |
| Racial preferrences are solidly entrenched in academia, private companies (kind of an insurance policy against getting sued) and most certainly in Fed, State, County and city gubmint. |
I once was involved in a meeting where our academic research group was trying to decide if we should add a lawyer, psychologist, or statistician to the faculty. After the decision was made the director said, 'now where can we find some good minority candidates?'
Right there I knew what the game was. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Whether he is or not is immaterial. |
To you, perhaps. Somehow I suspect if he were to go and admit the truth to the individuals responsible for administering this program, it would be quite material to them.
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Yeah, hypocritical. Like scamming the Nigerian scammers is "hypocritical." |
If one were to expound upon how bad it is that people scam one another in our world, and then went and scam some Nigerian scammers, yes, it would be hypocritical. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Nah, Hispanic is a solidly fake thing. Many South Americans are white as snow and yet receive AA in the US. It is absurd. The poster is gaming a system that is designed to screw him. Good for him. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| It turns out that there is no "foolproof" definition of "Hispanic," just as there is none of "black" regarding race. (See Prof. James Montgomery's theory of uniracialism.) Using the surname is probably as good as any other method. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Whether he is or not is immaterial. |
To you, perhaps. Somehow I suspect if he were to go and admit the truth to the individuals responsible for administering this program, it would be quite material to them.
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| Yeah, hypocritical. Like scamming the Nigerian scammers is "hypocritical." |
If one were to expound upon how bad it is that people scam one another in our world, and then went and scam some Nigerian scammers, yes, it would be hypocritical. |
OK I get it, you're an internet purist. You kinda remind me of that episode where Marcia's boyfriend steals Greg's playbook and Greg brags about how he had planted it there for him to steal and how it was full of fake plays and Mr Brady tells Greg that he's no better than Marcia's boyfriend for doing that.
Yeah, Mr Brady, I'm that kind of hypocrite.  |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| OK I get it, you're an internet purist. |
Because it's utterly impossible I practice what I preach outside of the internet, right? It's extremely easy to not indulge in activities one openly condemns. The fact that you feel avoiding blatant hypocrisy is so rare and unrealistic that it is comparable to a fictional TV show is disappointing. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Using the surname is probably as good as any other method. |
Which is probably what the "dumb" administrator who approved Cordova's application for aid felt. Unfortunately, in this situation he was gulled; it's bound to happen in a system with so many participants.
None the less, while there might be a correlation between name and race, unlike what Mr. Cheswyck insists, there is no causation. You are not of a given race because of your surname, even if people of a given race might often have a given surname. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Using the surname is probably as good as any other method. |
Which is probably what the "dumb" administrator who approved Cordova's application for aid felt. Unfortunately, in this situation he was gulled; it's bound to happen in a system with so many participants.
None the less, while there might be a correlation between name and race, unlike what Mr. Cheswyck insists, there is no causation. You are not of a given race because of your surname, even if people of a given race might often have a given surname. |
Hispanic isn't a race. It isn't anything at all, really. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
None the less, while there might be a correlation between name and race, unlike what Mr. Cheswyck insists, there is no causation. You are not of a given race because of your surname, even if people of a given race might often have a given surname. |
One more time: I hold that Hispanic is not a race. So I can't possibly be making the claims you say I am making.
"Hispanic origin", however, does seem to exist in the US govt.'s sloppy way of viewing this. And in line with that, having an Hispanic surname qualifies one as Hispanic. (Or it appears to)
| Fox wrote: |
The fact that you feel avoiding blatant hypocrisy is so rare and unrealistic that it is comparable to a fictional TV show is disappointing. |
You know, if Herodotus, Thucydides, or Machiavelli could see that show, they too would peg Mike Brady for a chump.
By the way, Greg's team beat Fairview 20-7. |
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ManintheMiddle
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Leslie related:
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OK I get it, you're an internet purist. You kinda remind me of that episode where Marcia's boyfriend steals Greg's playbook and Greg brags about how he had planted it there for him to steal and how it was full of fake plays and Mr Brady tells Greg that he's no better than Marcia's boyfriend for doing that.
Yeah, Mr Brady, I'm that kind of hypocrite |
Hey, I recall that episode. You rarely find that kind of moral suasion written into TV scripts nowadays.
But the guy who played him played by society's rule of remaining a closet gay right up until the end.
Fox: when Blacks play within the rules to buck the system, it's called "nonviolent protest" but when Whites do it, it's called "cheating." Yeah, and when Blacks voted for Obama, it was showing "race solidarity" but if Whites didn't, they're closet racists, right? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Using the surname is probably as good as any other method. |
Which is probably what the "dumb" administrator who approved Cordova's application for aid felt. Unfortunately, in this situation he was gulled; it's bound to happen in a system with so many participants.
None the less, while there might be a correlation between name and race, unlike what Mr. Cheswyck insists, there is no causation. You are not of a given race because of your surname, even if people of a given race might often have a given surname. |
Hispanic isn't a race. It isn't anything at all, really. |
I must really thank the OP for this thread.
I have learned that I am Hispanic for two reasons (at least according to dictionary.com):
1. My ancestors hail from the area of Rome, Italy; and
2. I speak Spanish.
Gimme an application 
 Now, Fox, do not try to tell me this is not legitimate. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
One more time: I hold that Hispanic is not a race. So I can't possibly be making the claims you say I am making.
"Hispanic origin", however, does seem to exist in the US govt.'s sloppy way of viewing this. And in line with that, having an Hispanic surname qualifies one as Hispanic. (Or it appears to) |
Hispanic race, Hispanic origin, pointless semantics within the context of the conversation. Your "origins" are no more caused by your surname than your race, gender, or any other fact of your existence. At best a correlation exists, and the poster himself all ready made it clear that correlation doesn't apply to him.
| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| You know, if Herodotus, Thucydides, or Machiavelli ... |
I'm not sure why you care to inform me of your speculation on the thoughts of random men I profess no particular affection for. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| Using the surname is probably as good as any other method. |
Which is probably what the "dumb" administrator who approved Cordova's application for aid felt. Unfortunately, in this situation he was gulled; it's bound to happen in a system with so many participants.
None the less, while there might be a correlation between name and race, unlike what Mr. Cheswyck insists, there is no causation. You are not of a given race because of your surname, even if people of a given race might often have a given surname. |
Hispanic isn't a race. It isn't anything at all, really. |
I must really thank the OP for this thread.
I have learned that I am Hispanic for two reasons (at least according to dictionary.com):
1. My ancestors hail from the area of Rome, Italy; and
2. I speak Spanish.
Gimme an application
Now, Fox, do not try to tell me this is not legitimate. |
I know an American female who is ethnically Chinese, born in South America where she lived for less than 1 year. She speaks no Spanish, and her home is Mandarin speaking. Apparently, she is Hispanic.
And Brazilians aren't Hispanic, but Filipinos are. Camon. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Fox: when Blacks play within the rules to buck the system, it's called "nonviolent protest" but when Whites do it, it's called "cheating." |
Not by me it's not, I don't know how much more clear I can make that. I am not in favor of these double standards.
| ManintheMiddle wrote: |
| Yeah, and when Blacks voted for Obama, it was showing "race solidarity" but if Whites didn't, they're closet racists, right? |
I've no doubt many Blacks voted for Obama for thoroughly racist reasons, and I do not feel that is to their credit. |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
Hispanic race, Hispanic origin, pointless semantics within the context of the conversation. Your "origins" are no more caused by your surname than your race, gender, or any other fact of your existence. At best a correlation exists, and the poster himself all ready made it clear that correlation doesn't apply to him. |
Take it up with Uncle Sam, then. They've got their definition of Hispanic, and you've got yours. Which one do you think they are using? Hint: not yours.
| Fox wrote: |
| I'm not sure why you care to inform me of your speculation on the thoughts of random men I profess no particular affection for. |
Because they are keen observers of human behavior. I guarantee you they would applaud Greg's dirty trick as the right thing to do. Not the honest thing to do, but virtuous. |
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