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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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 Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
| bixlerscott wrote: |
I see the Thai smile as their form of saving face and not to be confused with happiness like many Western tourists interpret it to be though they can have a real sense of humor and laugh to a joke quite well. It's sorta like how Koreans save face by giggling in uncomfortable situations though it's harder to get the Koreans to exhibit a sense of humor to laugh out of something being funny unless it's elementary kids. For Thailand, their style of face saving just happened to be a hit with tourists, because it comes off as a really cool fairy tale adventure the first go around.
When you travel through the real Thailand on local buses far away from tourist centers, it's not smiling; just average working class barely scraping by dressed in tattered rags of mostly old black shirts. I didn't get any strange looks or feel threatened in non-touristy areas though, but it felt like a very poor 3rd world country. Don't try to short cut from ayutia to Aranyaprathet bordering Cambodia without routing through Bangkok unless you want to take slow local buses and get a glimpse of what Thailand is like for average Thai people. It looked very blighted, under developed, and quite hard living well below almost any poverty line you every knew unless having taken a good look around Cambodia which is quite rough around the edges. Was interesting to get the perspective of Thai living outside of tourism, but disappointing considering Thailand is so filthy rich in natural resources.
Like many of us, when you get experienced with Asian cultures, you can't help, but to see past the smiles in tourist areas and unfortunately, it becomes apparent LOS means, "Land of Scams." How many times did they try to over charge you on beers in food and bars and restaurants or over estimate your tab? And then get intimidating when you correct them on it? How many times were you rushed into ordering food when you just wanted to enjoy a beer first or take a 10 minute breather before ordering off the ridiculously long menu? I actually got kicked out of a Chiang Mai restaurant for politely asking 6 times in 2 minutes to be given more time upon being approached in a demanding rude manner to order food a half dozen times in just 2 minutes with the head waiter blocking my exit to pay a 200 baht sit down fee and threatening police action if I didn't pay. It was a German themed restaurant aside the night market. This was during my 5th and last time to the land of scams.
Overall, it's more positive than negative to travel Thailand though don't go too many times trying to relive the thrill of your 1st visit, but I believe living there could get risky should someone locally not like you or you get into a disagreement with someone and they know where you live. I've been to SEA 5 times over the past 3 years and fixing to head home from this adventure through Asia, but not without doing the entire ring of fire in South Asia first though. Would love to also do New Guinea, but that seems out of reach at this time. |
This is a good post and I think a good summary of how I've also come to see Thai people and the culture over the years.
I enjoy the sun, beaches and food, but really dislike the overall attitudes of the Thais towards visitors. |
emmmmm, so does this mean all canadians are nice??
does this mean that In AMERICA or ENGLAND I wont find these problems?
thais are probably just sick and tired of foreigners expecting them to serve them and bow to them and run around after them, and then they still haggle over 20cents!!!! |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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this is so rich I had to post it:
Ping and Troy - A Love Story
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copied from original source........
Living here over the years, like many, I have often heard tales about this scam and that scam. I've never actually had chance to observe one in the making. Until now. I write this now for your amusement, astonishment as a warning or whatever you wish to make of it. All this is factual and observed from the sidelines with absolutely no involvement from myself.
I don't even know the peoples real names. So let's say she is Thai and called Ping, he is Australian and called Troy, her Thai husband / brother is called Chan (yes he gets involved) , her sister who sells sausages off a cart is called Mimi.
Ping moved in with her sister Mimi about six months ago. Chan, Ping's husband seemed to be always around. No job as far as I'm aware. They all live in a room in a mansion block right next to my house. Their room is very near my front gate � so any goings on get noticed by either my neighbour or my partner and reported in full detail to an originally uninterested me.
Ping and Chan spent most of their days from me leaving for work at about 6.30 am � until I drew my bedroom curtains at about 10 pm sat outside drinking Lao Khao and smoking Krontip chain style and scoffing free sausages courtesy of Mimi (really nice woman but part dwarf) and gambling on the football.
One evening, around 6 pm, an almighty fight broke out between Chan and Ping- knives came out and some minor blade injuries were inflicted. Chan stormed off shouting Kwai, Kwai (buffalo, buffalo). Quite observant of him really as she must be nearly 40 and does have bovine features.
What happened I asked my neighbour? Well apparantly Ping's husband is coming from Australia and Chan has to move out for two weeks. A farang husband I ask, I thought old dodgy hair Chan was her husband! They both married her baan nok (village) style so it wasn't bigamy I was reassured.
Next some Australian Embassy paperwork is thrust in my face as I am putting a black bag in the bin next to my gate. �You help me do this� said Ping. �So sorry, I can't because I have an urgent project that needs 100% of my time� I said fingers crossed behind my back. She got the old Chinese man to help her on the corner for 500 bahts. His English is great. He mends TV's.
Her plan was to get everything ready to go to the Embassy with Troy, the minute he arrived. She said she'd asked him for 100,000 bahts to pay the agency fee (WHAT???)
Troy arrives. A bit dim looking. We didn't have eye contact fortunately. Next day I popped to 7/11 for some beer and on the way back, nearing my gate, I overhear Ping ask Troy for 2000 bahts to give to her brother (Chan) who was sat on his Honda Wave about 10 metres further down the Soi. �What for� said Troy � exactly I thought to myself. �He wife is very sick and needs to eat tablets� said Ping convincingly � out came Troy's wallet.
I promise it's a true story. I just have to add my own observations so sorry about all the cliches!
Next..........
The Visa was refused by the Australian Embassy so apparantly no refund of the 100,000 bahts can be given. Surprise, surprise. Ping would not pay the Chinese man his 500 bahts for helping with the application because it was his fault it failed in her eyes. He shouldn't have put that Ping and Troy met in a bar in Pattaya on Walking Street. After all, she's a good girl and popped in for a Pepsi on her way to the temple. We could assume.
A day later I popped in to our Ma and Pa shop, two doors from Ping's room. A friend of hers had come to stay from Jomtiem, �Sexy� is all I can call her because she had it embroided on the back of her shorts. She was ironing Ping's hair on a towel on top of one of those concrete/ marble style chess tables that are popular here. Ping obviously wanted her hair to be very straight for a night out with Troy., I assumed. As I ambled past I heard the words �Farang khi nok� ( Foreigner is bird shit).
Of course I thought it was directed at me. �not this farang, thank you� I said in an aggressive way. �No, not you� she said �My husband�. � Oh Ok, whatever� I said.
That night I was woken in the early hours by a loud commotion. Chan was shouting �bandstand, you pen bandstand� I was a bit woozy but I;m pretty sure he meant �bastard�. I peaked through the curtains like a Liverpool granny to see Ping (in a Doeremon neglige) and Troy (in his blue kecks) on the floor fighting. It all calmed down with Troy being led by the arm into the room to be told that Chan was very upset because his beloved wife had died of Malaria. He had given him 2,000 bahts but he needed 15,000 and she was �very,very scare to aks�. He now needed 30,000 to give her a family funeral so as not to lose face in the village. My neighbour asuured me the wallet had been opened the next morning. As many of us know, you could almost buy a small Issan village for that amount. Or at least rent it for 30 years. Chan had lost at cards again.
And the final part................
So I'm afraid a lost interest for a few days. Lots of drinking and laughter. Mimi sheeted over her sausage cart and parked it up to join in the fun. No sign of Chan. No sign of any funeral mourners. No sign of any Ladyboys I'm sorry to say.
Troy went back to Australia after tearful farewells. Then the fun really started.........
It was one non stop, Mor Lam music blaring party free for all � 24 hours. Ping had let it be known that she had 60,000 baht to spend � and did she start spending it.Card games, Black label, a constant stream of motorbike taxi blokes mulling around, spitting and fighting. No one in the street got any sleep for a week. Chan was in his element. Ping was the centre of everyones attention.
After a week the noise died down. It was now half bottles of Sang Som being shared by Ping, Chan and Mimi.The money had run out.
So what would you expect next?
Well Ping pulled out her trump card. Even Mimi was ashamed of this one. She has told Troy she's pregnant. If he doesn't send her 50,000 for urgent medical care she will kill herself. Last egg in her box I should think . Another big party beckons. �................................That's all so far.
It might read like a story because that is how I have retold it. I can assure you all it's the truth.
These people a SO clever. SO brazen about it that the most vulnerable people are caught completely off guard. They openly dissed and laughed at him in Thai in front of his face. Just because he couldn't understand the language. We wouldn't allow a dog to be treated like that.
I knew it was pointless, even dangerous, for me to intervene. I still feel guilty though. What would you have done?
I could say next time you are asked for money, try saying no and see what happens. I don't think anyone reading this will think it applies to them. It does. Not everyone. But most conducting a long distance relationship with an ordinary Thai woman / man / ladyboy that they met in a bar. But what do I know?
copied from http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Ping-T...m-t287293.html |
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Perceptioncheck
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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^^^ God, that's awful and hilarious all at the same time.
I kind of feel sorry for people getting fleeced through these long distance Thai romances. You would have to be either incredibly lonely or incredibly stupid to fall for that kind of thing and frankly, it amazes me that it happens so often.
The fearsome female propieter of a guesthouse I stayed at in Laos would constantly bemoan the fact that her boyfriends weren't sending her any money for her "sons heart operation". She asked me to check the English in her email and I was so curious that I agreed. Not only had she bemoaned the fact that her son was sick, apparently business was slow and her sister also had some kind of weird liver disease. I thought the addition of the sister was a bit much but she refused to take it out. I can't help wondering how much money she gets out of emails like that. |
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gaffe
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Location: N.C.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I love certain parts of Thailand. Other parts I hate. It seems most people equate Thailand with Bangkok and the beach resorts south. For me the true Land of Smiles is Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Mei Sai - the North. Sure, tourism pushes the phrase LAND OF SMILES - but people are genuine up there, fun-loving, sincere - not calculated. Most people are poor. Surviving is on their minds, but ripping off the clueless tourist isn't a daily agenda. I love Chiang Mai. Wish I was there right now. |
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roadwork
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Location: Goin' up the country
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought the story about Ping and Troy was actually about Steve Schertzer and that the names were changed. He had posted a story on here before like that...maybe it was a Philipina he was dating. |
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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| and then they still haggle over 20cents!!!! |
Haha, this reminds me of Vietnam actually. After a while, even as little as a month, I guess one gets used to local prices and how much things should cost. Then people who have plenty of cash, relatively speaking, compared to most locals at least, can turn into real cheapskates. You want me to pay 15,000 VND for that pack of smokes when I can get it down the road for 12,000 VND? No way! (15,000 VND = about a dollar). Saw this sort of thing many times there, probably did it myself once or twice, forgetting that a few thousand VND is basically worth nothing. It's an easy trap to fall into actually. |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| beercanman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| and then they still haggle over 20cents!!!! |
Haha, this reminds me of Vietnam actually. After a while, even as little as a month, I guess one gets used to local prices and how much things should cost. Then people who have plenty of cash, relatively speaking, compared to most locals at least, can turn into real cheapskates. You want me to pay 15,000 VND for that pack of smokes when I can get it down the road for 12,000 VND? No way! (15,000 VND = about a dollar). Saw this sort of thing many times there, probably did it myself once or twice, forgetting that a few thousand VND is basically worth nothing. It's an easy trap to fall into actually. |
not a "trap".
it's called common sense, unless you really need something and need it right away.
12K vs 15K is a 25% price increase.
quite significant.
I buy some stuff at my local convenience store instead of carrying it back from E-mart because I don't want to carry a bunch of crap.
but in such cases, the difference in price is 10% at the very most. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
| beercanman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| and then they still haggle over 20cents!!!! |
Haha, this reminds me of Vietnam actually. After a while, even as little as a month, I guess one gets used to local prices and how much things should cost. Then people who have plenty of cash, relatively speaking, compared to most locals at least, can turn into real cheapskates. You want me to pay 15,000 VND for that pack of smokes when I can get it down the road for 12,000 VND? No way! (15,000 VND = about a dollar). Saw this sort of thing many times there, probably did it myself once or twice, forgetting that a few thousand VND is basically worth nothing. It's an easy trap to fall into actually. |
not a "trap".
it's called common sense, unless you really need something and need it right away.
12K vs 15K is a 25% price increase.
quite significant.
I buy some stuff at my local convenience store instead of carrying it back from E-mart because I don't want to carry a bunch of crap.
but in such cases, the difference in price is 10% at the very most. |
oh but you still expect a huge smile, and have the shop clerk run around after you because you are a western person visiting their country.. but still wont pay 20cents more..
that 20cents is a lot to them... of course if its significant like 10 dollars, or 50 dollars more than locals pay then yes screw that.. but 50 cents..
1 dollar, or 20 cents.. come on now.. help out the locals.. |
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offtheoche
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Lived in Thailand for a few years. Absolutely love the culture, people
and especially the food.
Been living in Korea for two years now, I have zero love for this country. Korea has no magic (unlike Thailand), the food sucks and many Korean people are generally rude/dishonest/racist/xenophobic etc etc. Of course there are exceptions.
My parents have been to Thailand, they also fell in love with the place
/people/food. They were talking about visiting Korea next year but
we have decided we will meet up in Thailand instead. I don't think they
would enjoy this place! |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
| Epicurus wrote: |
| beercanman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| and then they still haggle over 20cents!!!! |
Haha, this reminds me of Vietnam actually. After a while, even as little as a month, I guess one gets used to local prices and how much things should cost. Then people who have plenty of cash, relatively speaking, compared to most locals at least, can turn into real cheapskates. You want me to pay 15,000 VND for that pack of smokes when I can get it down the road for 12,000 VND? No way! (15,000 VND = about a dollar). Saw this sort of thing many times there, probably did it myself once or twice, forgetting that a few thousand VND is basically worth nothing. It's an easy trap to fall into actually. |
not a "trap".
it's called common sense, unless you really need something and need it right away.
12K vs 15K is a 25% price increase.
quite significant.
I buy some stuff at my local convenience store instead of carrying it back from E-mart because I don't want to carry a bunch of crap.
but in such cases, the difference in price is 10% at the very most. |
oh but you still expect a huge smile, and have the shop clerk run around after you because you are a western person visiting their country.. but still wont pay 20cents more..
that 20cents is a lot to them... of course if its significant like 10 dollars, or 50 dollars more than locals pay then yes screw that.. but 50 cents..
1 dollar, or 20 cents.. come on now.. help out the locals.. |
no. sorry.
I'm not looking for a smile, nor am I looking for someone to run around for me or after me.
I'm simply looking for a consumer good at the fair local price.
NOT the tourist price, thank you.
this is one reason I never ever take tourist taxis at the airport, for e.g.
guaranteed ripoff.
I know what you're saying and usually I'd wave my hand at 20 cents, yes, but if you stay anywhere for a longer period of time this stuff starts adding up so on longer stays I am far more likely to pinch pennies.
re - "helping out the locals" - I am FAR more likely to generously tip an honest taxi driver, or merchant, etc than someone looking to screw tourists. That's how I "help out the locals". I help out the honest ones. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Been living in Bangkok for quite awhile now...
The whole land of smiles thing is absolute tosh. Most people in the city rarely if ever smile, they mostly just grunt at you. The closest I usually get to a smile on a given day is that smug, sh_t-eating grin they give you when they're overcharging you to your face. Basically it is the most money hungry place I've ever lived. About 60-70% of the population are just thick, greedy peasants who cannot grasp the most rudimentary ideas of supply and demand (they're more than happy to take your cash, but fulfilling their end of the deal is often of little importance to them, and they have no shame whatsoever). Dealing with them is basically a never ending source of frustration (though you do get used to it)... all in all, it's pretty hard to hold the Thai people in great esteem...
Having said that, there is a good expat crowd here (also a bad one, but you can choose which you want to associate with) and it can be a pretty fun place to live. It can be cheap, but it's not really that cheap like people think. Luckily I don't teach English here though (as the salaries are abysmal and the conditions less than inspiring). |
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Epicurus
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Been living in Bangkok for quite awhile now...
The whole land of smiles thing is absolute tosh. Most people in the city rarely if ever smile, they mostly just grunt at you. The closest I usually get to a smile on a given day is that smug, sh_t-eating grin they give you when they're overcharging you to your face. Basically it is the most money hungry place I've ever lived. About 60-70% of the population are just thick, greedy peasants who cannot grasp the most rudimentary ideas of supply and demand (they're more than happy to take your cash, but fulfilling their end of the deal is often of little importance to them, and they have no shame whatsoever). Dealing with them is basically a never ending source of frustration (though you do get used to it)... all in all, it's pretty hard to hold the Thai people in great esteem...
Having said that, there is a good expat crowd here (also a bad one, but you can choose which you want to associate with) and it can be a pretty fun place to live. It can be cheap, but it's not really that cheap like people think. Luckily I don't teach English here though (as the salaries are abysmal and the conditions less than inspiring). |
have many friends that have either lived or still live in Thailand that would concur with just about every single point you make. |
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Keepongoing
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject: Just Came Back |
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I just returned from holiday in Thailand. Thailand was the first overseas country I went to, and I have been in love with it ever since. I love Thai people, the culture, food, beaches, islands, jungles etc. The main areas where tourists go are not the same as the areas where they are less seen. Every country has jerks and people have bad experiences.
I lived in Thailand for a year in the 70's and have been back often. This last time I got a Thai cooking certificate. I learned to prepare 26 dishes. I loved it. Thailand IS foreign friendly in many ways. The very fact that they have Thai cooking classes that caters to foreigners says something. How many Korean cooking classes that cater to the waygook do you know of?
It was funny. Last night I was in a local bar and I told a lady they I took Thai cooking classes and she proceeded to tell me she very much disliked Thai food. I have had many Koreans tell me that; something about the smell they said. Also, comments about Thailand being dirty etc.
Well, to each his own. Thailand has a huge tourist industry and Korea, well it needs to be a bit more foreigner friendly. Personally, I don't think tourism will improve in this country because I don't think Koreans want to encourage foreigners in their country. In general, I don't think Koreans trust or even like foreigners that much. That is o.k., Korea does not need a big tourist industry. Korea is doing very well in the automotive, electronics and ship building industry. |
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Kurtz
Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Location: ples bilong me
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Epicurus wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| Epicurus wrote: |
| beercanman wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| and then they still haggle over 20cents!!!! |
Haha, this reminds me of Vietnam actually. After a while, even as little as a month, I guess one gets used to local prices and how much things should cost. Then people who have plenty of cash, relatively speaking, compared to most locals at least, can turn into real cheapskates. You want me to pay 15,000 VND for that pack of smokes when I can get it down the road for 12,000 VND? No way! (15,000 VND = about a dollar). Saw this sort of thing many times there, probably did it myself once or twice, forgetting that a few thousand VND is basically worth nothing. It's an easy trap to fall into actually. |
not a "trap".
it's called common sense, unless you really need something and need it right away.
12K vs 15K is a 25% price increase.
quite significant.
I buy some stuff at my local convenience store instead of carrying it back from E-mart because I don't want to carry a bunch of crap.
but in such cases, the difference in price is 10% at the very most. |
oh but you still expect a huge smile, and have the shop clerk run around after you because you are a western person visiting their country.. but still wont pay 20cents more..
that 20cents is a lot to them... of course if its significant like 10 dollars, or 50 dollars more than locals pay then yes screw that.. but 50 cents..
1 dollar, or 20 cents.. come on now.. help out the locals.. |
no. sorry.
I'm not looking for a smile, nor am I looking for someone to run around for me or after me.
I'm simply looking for a consumer good at the fair local price.
NOT the tourist price, thank you.
this is one reason I never ever take tourist taxis at the airport, for e.g.
guaranteed ripoff.
I know what you're saying and usually I'd wave my hand at 20 cents, yes, but if you stay anywhere for a longer period of time this stuff starts adding up so on longer stays I am far more likely to pinch pennies.
re - "helping out the locals" - I am FAR more likely to generously tip an honest taxi driver, or merchant, etc than someone looking to screw tourists. That's how I "help out the locals". I help out the honest ones. |
I agree. It's this "it's only a dollar" mentality that creates so many problems for tourists as the locals get greedy and think every tourist is rich and will just throw around the money.
Barter and barter hard, but don't go over the top. Pay the local price. If a Thai goes to a Western country, they can't expect to pay a lower price because they are Thai, so a Westerner shouldn't pay a higher price because they come from a rich country.
If you want to help, give to a charity or sponser a child, don't tip or pay extra to some scheming local.
The question itself has been answered and answered well in an earlier post. Sometimes the smile is real, but I'd say in most cases it's not, especially in tourist areas. I'd love to be able to speak Thai, I'm quite sure some nasty things are said about us. |
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beercanman
Joined: 16 May 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| I suppose it isn't the extra bit here and there that most object to, as most can afford it easily enough. It's feeling of perhaps being ripped off and the feeling of 'why pay more?' Also, a lot of us like to be clever and feel we got the best deal, saving ourselves a grand sum of a few bucks maybe. Then it's off to the bars and restaurants to blow ten times that or more without a second thought, haha. |
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