Site Search:
 
Speak Korean Now!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Climate Change Scepticism
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triban wrote:
Why are people so f*cking STUPID? Global warming is just an idiotic ploy, and we are taking the bait, yet again, just like with the previous bailouts, Iraq War, etc.


Triban, could not agree with you more on the idiotic ploy part.

But provide proof. The believers need to be educated on this issue. They all fell for that BS artist Gore. The worm is turning on this issue, people are starting to wake up.

Find the information and post it. Calling people f'en stupid won't win any friends. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Oh excellent argument.

Ok, so the science is settled, though we don't know which science is settled (and we assume the thousands of scientists who disagree are on Big Oil's payroll) but we're sure 1) it's hysterically bad 2) will demand intervention into "every aspect of our life" (according to Tim Flannery) and 3) anybody who disagrees is i) doing so out of ideological spite or ii) probably stupid.


Tim Flannery, what an embarrassment to OZ, what a clown.
Ha, "global dimming", someone turn the light on for Tim.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23724412-2,00.html

SCIENTIST Tim Flannery has proposed a radical solution to climate change which may change the colour of the sky.

But he says it may be necessary, as the "last barrier to climate collapse."

Professor Flannery says climate change is happening so quickly that mankind may need to pump sulphur into the atmosphere to survive.

Australia's best-known expert on global warming has updated his climate forecast for the world - and it's much worse than he thought just three years ago.

He has called for a radical suite of emergency measures to be put in place.

The gas sulphur could be inserted into the earth's stratosphere to keep out the sun's rays and slow global warming, a process called global dimming.

"It would change the colour of the sky," Prof Flannery told AAP.

"It's the last resort that we have, it's the last barrier to a climate collapse.

"We need to be ready to start doing it in perhaps five years time if we fail to achieve what we're trying to achieve."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Axiom wrote:
Why is he so afraid of debate on this subject.


He's not afraid of debate on the subject. Rather, he pretty clearly understands that many of the people who claim to want debate really just have the goal of muddying the intellectual waters as much as possible in hopes of confusing the issue, which will result in a default victory for their "do nothing" approach.

Outside of a few scientists, no serious debate is actually occuring. The politicians, businessmen, and members of the general public who deny climate change do so for the most part because the things required to combat it conflict with their interests or ideology, not because of any data. No amount of data would cause most of them to change their minds.

To be certain whether or not anthropogenic climate change is occuring will take decades or longer. Gambling with the existence of our species by waiting until we're certain to start taking appropriate countermeasures is nothing short of selfish, short-sighted stupidity. Let's stop pretending an actual debate is taking place among the general public, in business circles, or in political circles. Just as with health care reform, the people who are against it are against it for reasons of personal interest or unrealist ideology, not because of any facts or data.

Oh, and you don't have an agenda? Everything you write could just as easily be applied right back at you. Are you actually pretending that you know all the data yourself?

There is soooo much to lose by going along with government plans to "stop" climate change. Nobody is saying we wouldn't be better off finding alternative energy sources - the issue is increased government control over our lives and carbon taxes, period.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Safron



Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Location: portland, or

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:32 am    Post subject: Scientific Data Reply with quote

Sun's Output Increasing in Possible Trend Fueling Global Warming
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2007/03/26/gores_faith_is_bad_science?page=full&comments=true

Al Gore likes to present himself as a tribune of science, warning the world of imminent danger. But he is more like an Old Testament prophet, calling on us to bewail our wrongful conduct and to go and sin no more.

He starts off with the science. The world's climate, he reports, is getting warmer. This accurate report is, however, not set in historic context. World climate has grown warmer and cooler at various times in history. Climate change is not some unique historic event. It is the way the world works.

Not this time, Gore says. What's different is that climate change is being driven by human activity -- to wit, increasing carbon dioxide emissions. Which means, he says, that we have to sharply reduce those emissions. But what the scientists tell us is that some proportion of climate change is caused by human activity and some proportion by natural causes -- and that they can only estimate what those proportions are. The estimates they have produced have varied sharply. The climate change models that have been developed don't account for events of the recent past, much less predict with precision events in the future.

To which the prophet replies, with religious intensity, that all debate should be over. Those scientists with inconvenient views should be defunded and silenced. We should replace scientific inquiry with faith. We should have faith that climate change -- "global warming" -- is caused primarily by human activity. And we should have faith that the effects will be catastrophic, with rising oceans flooding great cities and pleasant plains and forests broiled by a searing sun.

Even The New York Times bridles at this. After Gore won the Academy Award for his film on climate change, the Times printed an article in which respected scientists -- not Republicans, not on oil company payrolls -- charged that Gore has vastly exaggerated the likelihood of catastrophic effects.

When you read the fine print of even the scientific reports that Gore likes to cite, you find the same thing. Gore foresees a 20-foot rise in sea level -- 240 inches. The IPCC panel report foresees a maximum of 23 inches. Gore says that "our civilization has never experienced any environmental shift remotely similar to this." Geologist Don Easterbrook says there have been shifts up to "20 times greater than the warming in the past century."

Science says that we should learn more about possible bad effects of climate change and calculate rationally how we can mitigate them. As the economic journalist Robert Samuelson points out, there is little that we can feasibly do in the short term to reduce carbon emissions, though over the long term we may be able to develop substitutes for carbon fuels.

As the environmentalist Bjorn Lomberg points out, the Kyoto Treaty that Gore helped to write (but which the Clinton administration never asked the Senate to ratify) would produce very little reduction in climate change at very high cost.

But religious prophets are not concerned about costs. Gore calls for an immediate cessation of new carbon-burning facilities. In other words, stop economic growth. But stopping economic growth in the developing world means consigning millions to miserable poverty. And we know what stopping economic growth in the developed world can mean.

Read the history of the 1930s: fascism, communism, world war. There are worse things than a rise of 1 or 2 degrees Centigrade.

The natural human yearning for spirituality has produced in many people educated in secular-minded universities and enveloped in an atmosphere of contempt for traditional religion a faith that we vulgar human beings have a sacred obligation not to inflict damage on Mother Earth. But science tells us that the Earth and its climate have been constantly changing.

Gore and his followers seem to assume that the ideal climate was the one they got used to when they were growing up. When temperatures dropped in the 1970s, there were warnings of an impending ice age. When they rose in the 1990s, there were predictions of disastrous global warming. This is just another example of the solipsism of the baby boom generation, the pampered and much-praised age cohort that believes the world revolves around them and that all past history has become irrelevant.

We're told in effect that the climate of the late 1950s and early 1960s was, of all those that have ever existed, the best of all possible climates. Not by science. But as a matter of faith.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Easterbrook

Don J. Easterbrook is a geology professor emeritus at Western Washington University. Easterbrook has published 150 journal articles. He has written eight books including Surface Processes and Landforms.

Easterbrook is a specialist in ice cores and global climate changes. From that perspective, he is skeptical of global warming. He has criticized Al Gore's film An Inconvenient Truth and IPCC temperature projections. He has appeared on the Headline News program Glenn Beck and in the New York Times as a global warming skeptic.


Another one of the few


Last edited by Axiom on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Scientific Data Reply with quote

Safron wrote:
Sun's Output Increasing in Possible Trend Fueling Global Warming
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html

Yeah right... the sun (that gigantic nuclear inferno that radiates hundreds of billions of times more energy in a single second than humanity has ever produced) couldn't possibly be a factor... Far better to just de-industrialize the world and give our money to the UN and Al Gore. To do otherwise is just too risky.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fox



Joined: 04 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

visitorq wrote:
Fox wrote:
Axiom wrote:
Why is he so afraid of debate on this subject.


He's not afraid of debate on the subject. Rather, he pretty clearly understands that many of the people who claim to want debate really just have the goal of muddying the intellectual waters as much as possible in hopes of confusing the issue, which will result in a default victory for their "do nothing" approach.

Outside of a few scientists, no serious debate is actually occuring. The politicians, businessmen, and members of the general public who deny climate change do so for the most part because the things required to combat it conflict with their interests or ideology, not because of any data. No amount of data would cause most of them to change their minds.

To be certain whether or not anthropogenic climate change is occuring will take decades or longer. Gambling with the existence of our species by waiting until we're certain to start taking appropriate countermeasures is nothing short of selfish, short-sighted stupidity. Let's stop pretending an actual debate is taking place among the general public, in business circles, or in political circles. Just as with health care reform, the people who are against it are against it for reasons of personal interest or unrealist ideology, not because of any facts or data.


Oh, and you don't have an agenda?


Of course I have an agenda. Unlike people such as yourself, however, my agenda is the well-being of the human race and keeping our planet a comfortably liveable place.

visitorq wrote:
Everything you write could just as easily be applied right back at you.


It could be attempted, but it would sound absolutely retarded and make no sense, which is why no one's done it. Attacking me for suggesting throwing caution to the wind when my primary point is we need to be cautious is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard suggested.

visitorq wrote:
Are you actually pretending that you know all the data yourself?


I really am starting to question your reading comprehension. Of course I'm not pretending I know all the data myself, which is why I've said -- repeatedly -- that I'm not certain whether anthropogenic global warming is occuring or not, and that it will take us decades (at the very least) to be certain. This is why I suggest caution rather than blind, reckless, greedy indifference.

visitorq wrote:
There is soooo much to lose by going along with government plans to "stop" climate change.


As I've said (and again, which you didn't bother to comprehend, because in your posting rage you don't really bother to read or consider), each proposal needs to be considered on a case by case basis. Some proposals will be good, and some won't be. There's a huge difference between saying "Government proposal X isn't a good idea because it will have effects a, b, and c," and saying, "Let's argue against any changes based on the possibility of anthropogenic climate change by default." I support the former; extremists like yourself support the latter.

visitorq wrote:
Nobody is saying we wouldn't be better off finding alternative energy sources ...


There are plenty of people who oppose the development of alternative energy sources, as well as any major changes in our energy economy. And those people are using their resources to try to muddy the waters of the climate change debate as much as possible to retain their current advantages.

visitorq wrote:
... the issue is increased government control over our lives and carbon taxes, period.


Then argue against specific policies which you feel are incorrect, rather than recklessly arguing against climate change based on your ideology. I for instance have all ready said I don't feel cap and trade is a good system; I can oppose it without opposing the entire idea of climate change. But that doesn't involve angry screaming or ridiculous, baseless principles, so obviously we can't have that, right?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming020507.htm

Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?
By Timothy Ball
Monday, February 5, 2007

Global Warming, as we think we know it, doesn't exist. And I am not the only one trying to make people open up their eyes and see the truth. But few listen, despite the fact that I was one of the first Canadian Ph.Ds. in Climatology and I have an extensive background in climatology, especially the reconstruction of past climates and the impact of climate change on human history and the human condition. Few listen, even though I have a Ph.D, (Doctor of Science) from the University of London, England and was a climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. For some reason (actually for many), the World is not listening. Here is why.

What would happen if tomorrow we were told that, after all, the Earth is flat? It would probably be the most important piece of news in the media and would generate a lot of debate. So why is it that when scientists who have studied the Global Warming phenomenon for years say that humans are not the cause nobody listens? Why does no one acknowledge that the Emperor has no clothes on?

Believe it or not, Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide (CO2). This in fact is the greatest deception in the history of science. We are wasting time, energy and trillions of dollars while creating unnecessary fear and consternation over an issue with no scientific justification. For example, Environment Canada brags about spending $3.7 billion in the last five years dealing with climate change almost all on propaganda trying to defend an indefensible scientific position while at the same time closing weather stations and failing to meet legislated pollution targets.

No sensible person seeks conflict, especially with governments, but if we don't pursue the truth, we are lost as individuals and as a society. That is why I insist on saying that there is no evidence that we are, or could ever cause global climate change. And, recently, Yuri A. Izrael, Vice President of the United Nations sponsored Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) confirmed this statement. So how has the world come to believe that something is wrong?

Maybe for the same reason we believed, 30 years ago, that global cooling was the biggest threat: a matter of faith. "It is a cold fact: the Global Cooling presents humankind with the most important social, political, and adaptive challenge we have had to deal with for ten thousand years. Your stake in the decisions we make concerning it is of ultimate importance; the survival of ourselves, our children, our species," wrote Lowell Ponte in 1976.

I was as opposed to the threats of impending doom global cooling engendered as I am to the threats made about Global Warming. Let me stress I am not denying the phenomenon has occurred. The world has warmed since 1680, the nadir of a cool period called the Little Ice Age (LIA) that has generally continued to the present. These climate changes are well within natural variability and explained quite easily by changes in the sun. But there is nothing unusual going on.

Since I obtained my doctorate in climatology from the University of London, Queen Mary College, England my career has spanned two climate cycles. Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970's global cooling became the consensus. This proves that consensus is not a scientific fact. By the 1990's temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I'll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_F._Ball

Timothy Ball has a B.A. from the University of Winnipeg, an M.A. from the University of Manitoba in 1970 in Geography, and a Ph.D. in climatology from the University of London, England in 1983, writing a thesis analyzing historical weather records from Canada's north. Ball taught geography at the University of Winnipeg from 1973 to 1996, starting as a Sessional Lecturer and retiring as a Professor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RufusW



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Location: Busan

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timothy Ball regularly appears on Glenn Beck's show.... nuff said. :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,21920043-27197,00.html

Bob Carter
June 17, 2007 11:00pm
.WITH understandable reluctance, Prime Minister John Howard recently donned the political hair-shirt of a carbon trading system.

On the same day, NASA chief Michael Griffin commented in a US radio interview that "I am not sure that it is fair to say that (global warming) is a problem that we must wrestle with".

NASA is an agency that knows a thing or two about climate change. As Griffin added: "We study global climate change, that is in our authorisation, we think we do it rather well.

"I'm proud of that, but NASA is not an agency chartered to, quote, battle climate change."

Such a clear statement that science accomplishment should carry primacy over policy advice is both welcome and overdue.

Nonetheless, there is something worrying about one of Griffin's other statements, which said that "I have no doubt . . . that a trend of global warming exists".

Griffin seems to be referring to human-caused global warming, but irrespective of that his opinion is unsupported by the evidence.

The salient facts are these. First, the accepted global average temperature statistics used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change show that no ground-based warming has occurred since 1998. Oddly, this eight-year-long temperature stasis has occurred despite an increase over the same period of 15 parts per million (or 4 per cent) in atmospheric CO2.

Second, lower atmosphere satellite-based temperature measurements, if corrected for non-greenhouse influences such as El Nino events and large volcanic eruptions, show little if any global warming since 1979, a period over which atmospheric CO2 has increased by 55 ppm (17 per cent).

Third, there are strong indications from solar studies that Earth's current temperature stasis will be followed by climatic cooling over the next few decades.

How then is it possible for Griffin to assert so boldly that human-caused global warming is happening?

Well, he is in good company for similar statements have been made recently by several Western heads of state at the G8 summit meeting. For instance, German Chancellor Angela Merkel asserts climate change (i.e. global warming) "is also essentially caused by humankind".

In fact, there is every doubt whether any global warming at all is occurring at the moment, let alone human-caused warming.

For leading politicians to be asserting to the contrary indicates something is very wrong with their chain of scientific advice, for they are clearly being deceived. That this should be the case is an international political scandal of high order which, in turn, raises the question of where their advice is coming from.

In Australia, the advice trail leads from government agencies such as the CSIRO and the Australian Greenhouse Office through to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change of the United Nations.

As leading economist David Henderson has pointed out, it is extremely dangerous for an unelected and unaccountable body like the IPCC to have a monopoly on climate policy advice to governments. And even more so because, at heart, the IPCC is a political and not a scientific agency.

Australia does not ask the World Bank to set its annual budget and neither should it allow the notoriously alarmist IPCC to set its climate policy.

It is past time for those who have deceived governments and misled the public regarding dangerous human-caused global warming to be called to account. Aided by hysterical posturing by green NGOs, their actions have led to the cornering of government on the issue and the likely implementation of futile emission policies that will impose direct extra costs on every household and enterprise in Australia to no identifiable benefit.

Not only do humans not dominate Earth's current temperature trend but the likelihood is that further large sums of public money are shortly going to be committed to, theoretically, combat warming when cooling is the more likely short-term climatic eventuality.

In one of the more expensive ironies of history, the expenditure of more than $US50 billion ($60 billion) on research into global warming since 1990 has failed to demonstrate any human-caused climate trend, let alone a dangerous one.

Yet that expenditure will pale into insignificance compared with the squandering of money that is going to accompany the introduction of a carbon trading or taxation system.

The costs of thus expiating comfortable middle class angst are, of course, going to be imposed preferentially upon the poor and underprivileged.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Carter

Robert M. "Bob" Carter,is an adjunct research professor in the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, Queensland and the University of Adelaide South Australia, Australia. He is a geologist specializing in palaeoclimatology, stratigraphy, marine geology, and environmental science. Carter is a former Director of Australia's Secretariat for the Ocean Drilling Program and a Co-Chief Scientist for drilling leg 181.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caniff



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw the "2012" special on History Channel last night while sipping cognac in my silk pajamas in front of a blazing fire, and towards the end they covered this guy who is making alot of coin recently selling abandoned missile silo installations. Apparently (according to one "expert"), you'd need about 10 years worth of supplies.

Not sure how he came up with that number, but that's at least one opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RufusW wrote:
Timothy Ball regularly appears on Glenn Beck's show.... nuff said. Smile


Being from Australia, I'm not sure of the significance. Could you enlighten me. Very Happy


Last edited by Axiom on Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.climatescienceinternational.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=14:text&id=37:the-manhattan-declaration

Manhattan Declaration on Climate Change
�Global warming� is not a global crisis


We, the scientists and researchers in climate and related fields, economists, policymakers, and business leaders, assembled at Times Square, New York City, participating in the 2008 International Conference on Climate Change,

Resolving that scientific questions should be evaluated solely by the scientific method;

Affirming that global climate has always changed and always will, independent of the actions of humans, and that carbon dioxide (CO2) is not a pollutant but rather a necessity for all life;

Recognising that the causes and extent of recently-observed climatic change are the subject of intense debates in the climate science community and that oft-repeated assertions of a supposed �consensus� among climate experts are false;

Affirming that attempts by governments to legislate costly regulations on industry and individual citizens to encourage CO2 emission reduction will slow development while having no appreciable impact on the future trajectory of global climate change. Such policies will markedly diminish future prosperity and so reduce the ability of societies to adapt to inevitable climate change, thereby increasing, not decreasing human suffering;

Noting that warmer weather is generally less harmful to life on Earth than colder:

Hereby declare:

That current plans to restrict anthropogenic CO2 emissions are a dangerous misallocation of intellectual capital and resources that should be dedicated to solving humanity�s real and serious problems.

That there is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change.

That attempts by governments to inflict taxes and costly regulations on industry and individual citizens with the aim of reducing emissions of CO2 will pointlessly curtail the prosperity of the West and progress of developing nations without affecting climate.

That adaptation as needed is massively more cost-effective than any attempted mitigation, and that a focus on such mitigation will divert the attention and resources of governments away from addressing the real problems of their peoples.

That human-caused climate change is not a global crisis.

Now, therefore, we recommend �

That world leaders reject the views expressed by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change as well as popular, but misguided works such as �An Inconvenient Truth�.



That all taxes, regulations, and other interventions intended to reduce emissions of CO2 be abandoned forthwith.



Agreed at New York, 4 March 2008.

CLIMATE EXPERTS WHO SIGNED MANHATTAN DECLARATION
The following 206 Manhattan Declaration endorsers are climate science specialists or scientists in closely related fields (this is a subset extracted from the other lists):

Names edited - use the link


Last edited by Axiom on Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fox wrote:
Axiom wrote:
Why is he so afraid of debate on this subject.


He's not afraid of debate on the subject. Rather, he pretty clearly understands that many of the people who claim to want debate really just have the goal of muddying the intellectual waters as much as possible in hopes of confusing the issue, which will result in a default victory for their "do nothing" approach.

Outside of a few scientists, no serious debate is actually occuring. The politicians, businessmen, and members of the general public who deny climate change do so for the most part because the things required to combat it conflict with their interests or ideology, not because of any data. No amount of data would cause most of them to change their minds.

To be certain whether or not anthropogenic climate change is occuring will take decades or longer. Gambling with the existence of our species by waiting until we're certain to start taking appropriate countermeasures is nothing short of selfish, short-sighted stupidity. Let's stop pretending an actual debate is taking place among the general public, in business circles, or in political circles. Just as with health care reform, the people who are against it are against it for reasons of personal interest or unrealist ideology, not because of any facts or data.



The few scientists assertion is starting to look a bit shaky

http://www.petitionproject.org/

31,478 American scientists have signed this petition,
including 9,029 with PhDs

I won't bother listing them all here. Use the link.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
visitorq



Joined: 11 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Axiom wrote:
Fox wrote:
Axiom wrote:
Why is he so afraid of debate on this subject.


He's not afraid of debate on the subject. Rather, he pretty clearly understands that many of the people who claim to want debate really just have the goal of muddying the intellectual waters as much as possible in hopes of confusing the issue, which will result in a default victory for their "do nothing" approach.

Outside of a few scientists, no serious debate is actually occuring. The politicians, businessmen, and members of the general public who deny climate change do so for the most part because the things required to combat it conflict with their interests or ideology, not because of any data. No amount of data would cause most of them to change their minds.

To be certain whether or not anthropogenic climate change is occuring will take decades or longer. Gambling with the existence of our species by waiting until we're certain to start taking appropriate countermeasures is nothing short of selfish, short-sighted stupidity. Let's stop pretending an actual debate is taking place among the general public, in business circles, or in political circles. Just as with health care reform, the people who are against it are against it for reasons of personal interest or unrealist ideology, not because of any facts or data.



The few scientists assertion is starting to look a bit shaky

http://www.petitionproject.org/

31,478 American scientists have signed this petition,
including 9,029 with PhDs

I won't bother listing them all here. Use the link.

A bit shakey? Fox is full of crap, period, and always has been. He just makes stuff up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> Current Events Forum All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International