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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| If this is what you mean by sexual totalitarianism... |
No, not at all. But you do get the usual clich� points for avoiding the issue and walking away from an exchange via flippancy. You even got a laugh from Big_Bird. Congratulations.
What I mean by sexual totalitarianism -- and this is especially important for someone who claims that others here have missed the point -- is that feminists in the social sciences and the humanities, such as the one who produced the study at issue here, aim to accomplish social engineering, particularly with respect to sexual and reproductive behavior, on a scale that I think we can only call "totalitarian."
They aim to reprogram us. In this case, set the stage for an eventual attack against even soft-core pornography -- such as your avatar, which, given your position here, I must say I find not at little contradictory.
And I get my politics on feminism from daily first-hand encounters with feminists, not only in seminars, but as colleagues with whom I collaborate when I can, as well as from leading critics such as Daphne Patai, whose work I consider extremely important.
It is a mistake to follow such studies as this -- even the ones that seem useless at first glance -- without asking where its authors are ultimately trying to lead you. That is my position here. No more, no less. As always, you may take it or leave it. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Why are all the women calling me darling, here. Should I call you 'tootsie'?
Also, Tootsie, I'm a little unclear how the singular form of the word renders it non-sexist. In my reading, you were still referring to a male and excluding females. Are we to assume that only males are descended from primates? All species of primates have hegemonic structures in which females wield power, very often using manipulative tactics.
Gopher's working on my bibliography. How you doing on that, Goph?
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
| Subtleties such as suggesting men ('you') and not women are descended from monkeys are all too common and for the most part ignored. |
Nice try darling. But I was using 'you' in its singular. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Poor Trevor. The ape who apes those who study apes but believes he is more and therefore calls it "thinking." Another congratulations is in order...You must be one of those apes they taught to keyboard. Well, congratuations. Good monkey; here is a banana.  |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
Nothing personal, Novakart, but one of my real pet peeves about society in general is peoples' insistence on trying to make something true even when it clearly is not. I understand why people do it -- sometimes is is even necessary, I think. I am curious, though as to why it is important to you that women be interested in porn? Is there some underlying point that it would enable you to make if they were?
No ulterior motive to the question. I am truly curious.
| NovaKart wrote: |
| I'm not debating whether men do it at a much greater proportion. What I'm saying is that perhaps women either would look at porn more if it was more socially acceptable and perhaps women actually do look at porn more than most people realize. I'm not saying this is necessarily true but I think people might at least think about the idea before flat out saying that they don't. |
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It's not important to me at all, I'm just curious about it because I have known women who said they looked at porn occassionally so I'm wondering how common it is. I wouldn't say that men and women are necessarily wired differently, just that there are certain patterns which are much more common in men and women but there are certain people who deviate from those patterns. |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:57 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Well, congratuations. Good monkey; here is a banana. |
Betas  |
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fishy
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| fishy wrote: |
Trevor,
Of course women watch porn.
You're just not dating the right ones!  |
Can you hook me up? I'd find someone myself, but all the women at my school are complete lunatics. For them it's porn, porn, porn all day long. Nothing but porn. It's a little embarassing
Last edited by Trevor on Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| NovaKart wrote: |
| Trevor wrote: |
Nothing personal, Novakart, but one of my real pet peeves about society in general is peoples' insistence on trying to make something true even when it clearly is not. I understand why people do it -- sometimes is is even necessary, I think. I am curious, though as to why it is important to you that women be interested in porn? Is there some underlying point that it would enable you to make if they were?
No ulterior motive to the question. I am truly curious.
| NovaKart wrote: |
| I'm not debating whether men do it at a much greater proportion. What I'm saying is that perhaps women either would look at porn more if it was more socially acceptable and perhaps women actually do look at porn more than most people realize. I'm not saying this is necessarily true but I think people might at least think about the idea before flat out saying that they don't. |
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It's not important to me at all, I'm just curious about it because I have known women who said they looked at porn occassionally so I'm wondering how common it is. I wouldn't say that men and women are necessarily wired differently, just that there are certain patterns which are much more common in men and women but there are certain people who deviate from those patterns. |
I have not done any studies on this, but nearly every woman I know who watches porn is much more satisfied if there is a story that goes along with it. Meanwhile, all of my guy friends could seriously just watch straight porn with no story or anything (just sex and then it's over) and be as satisfied (or more satisfied) than if it had a story. Like, I tried to watch porn with my guy friends and seriously, it was a bit too much. I felt bad for the girls, lol.
I think women are also more interested in erotica and literature than men. It's still pornography (in my opinion) it's just in a different form. |
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fishy
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Trevor wrote:
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| Can you hook me up? I'd find someone myself, but all the women at my school are complete lunatics. For them it's porn, porn, porn all day long. Nothing but porn. It's a little embarassing |
...so how about the foreign women then? |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:03 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I would but they are always trying to take beefcake pics of me with their cell phone cameras and posting them on youtube. I mean, out of modesty I just had to put a stop to it.
| fishy wrote: |
Trevor wrote:
| Quote: |
| Can you hook me up? I'd find someone myself, but all the women at my school are complete lunatics. For them it's porn, porn, porn all day long. Nothing but porn. It's a little embarassing |
...so how about the foreign women then? |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| I have not done any studies on this, but nearly every woman I know who watches porn is much more satisfied if there is a story that goes along with it. Meanwhile, all of my guy friends could seriously just watch straight porn with no story or anything (just sex and then it's over) and be as satisfied (or more satisfied) than if it had a story. |
Maybe we just have more imagination and don't need someone else to make a story for us? |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm wondering if there are more women who look at porn than we realize |
Nope. They don't. Women are different.
They can't do philosophy, either. There are no decent women philosophers. That's right, none. For some reason, porn and philosophy go together. I don't know why. |
Porn and philosophy go together?? Not when I took philosophy courses they didn't!
As for 'no decent women philosophers' what about Mary Warnock? I'm sure there are others too. Perhaps Heloise? There may be none among the greats but there are some decent ones. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
I think the guys are missing the point a little bit. The problem isn't that you're sexually aroused by hawt chicks. That's just normal.
It's that when you're aroused, you want to do words I'm not allowed to say here to those women rather than with them. You guys are seeing these women as objects to be enjoyed rather than as people who just might enjoy doing things I'm not allowed to say here to you as well. |
If, when the mood strikes, a man treats a woman as an object in the bedroom and they both enjoy it, I don't see anything wrong with it. I don't mean in a mechanical way, despite the screwdrivers and toolsets in the male mind, but merely as one part of the full spectrum of sexual behaviour.
As long as the cerebrum takes over in everyday life male-female interactions, and the bonobo instincts are only set free from the bonds of bourgeois enslavement, so to speak, during sex, then why not? |
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Trevor
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| As for 'no decent women philosophers' what about Mary Warnock? |
Yes, who can forget the immortal Mary Warnock who said:
"If you're demented, you're wasting people's lives � your family's lives � and you're wasting the resources of the National Health Service."
Philospophy at its finest. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Trevor wrote: |
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| As for 'no decent women philosophers' what about Mary Warnock? |
Yes, who can forget the immortal Mary Warnock who said:
"If you're demented, you're wasting people's lives � your family's lives � and you're wasting the resources of the National Health Service."
Philospophy at its finest. |
We also can't let the great Judith Jarvis Thomson pass anonymously into history. Where else would have gotten the great gem that abortion is always morally permissible because of the examples of "people seeds" and the diabolical "Society of Music Lovers?" |
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