|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| anjinsan wrote: |
Steel- buddy,
You crack me up. It is okay to admit that you are totally into b-boy
bands. We aren't here to judge you (just laugh at you).
|
Well then laugh away, hey, as long as someone is smiling instead of hating on the place.
| Quote: |
| We'll agree to disagree on just how anti-establishment H.O.T. is. |
They're as anti-establishment as Ice Cube rapping about the man while enjoying his millions from a major record label- The lyrics are anti, the group itself might as well have a trademark. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| anjinsan wrote: |
Yeah, I am still waiting for the day I hear a K. band anywhere put out great hits like the following:
--"Sorry Mom and Dad, but Kiss my Butt"
--"Seoul National Sucks"
--"Ain't Gonna Get Married, So Shut Up"
--"Only Dorks Do the Two-Finger 'V' Sign for Pictures"
--"Kimchi Makes Me Want to Puke"
--"Death Before Samsung"
and that all-time hit
--"Don't Smoke, Don't Drink, Don't Spit" |
Cho PD did some colorful criticisms of Korea in his tunes:
http://www.dynamic-korea.com/etc/people_new.php?uid=200500002353
I didn't speak enough Korean then to know all of what he says, but he had that one song where he starts by saying "this is dedicated to all fked up Koreans" in English over a Guns and Roses riff. My ex girlfriend got angry when I played it on a CD someone had given me, so I know it must have been a bit offensive. I should try to find the lyrics and see how much of them I can understand now. It's been a long time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
They're as anti-establishment as Ice Cube rapping about the man while enjoying his millions from a major record label- The lyrics are anti, the group itself might as well have a trademark. |
the difference is Ice Cube established his cred before receiving any major benefits from it. Besides, that accusation can then be made against any artist after a wildly successful first album.
Cube also penned his own lyrics/raps rather than having them written for him by some European songwriting outfit and created his own personna, rather than being some queen boy fembot recruited to wear certain clothes, mouth certain lyrics and learn queer little " dance moves".
I know nothing about HOT (nor do I want to, but if they're a Korean boy-band, that the basic model) (works same way for girl bands)
btw.. weren't those like so short lived and so over like 10 years ago?
that said.. this guy Cho PD..... you may have something there..
I expect him to have more interesting and substantive things to say after his initial to all you ___ up Koreans shout-out, but saying something like that that will "offend" so many of them and shake them out of their culturally induced stupor is always a good start. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Seriously, if ya'll don't know who H.O.T. was (short-lived?) and how popular they were, then I'm sorry you really have no business saying anything about Korean music.
They were basically The Beatles of K-Pop. Yes they had a good many cutey dance numbers, but each album they had a single that addressed social themes and they especially had a strong anti-war vibe. They also exerted more artistic control over their last 3 albums and pushed from a pure poppy style to include elements of rock (which did not go over well with the fanbase). Shinhwa did that too in their albums. A lot of the songs dealt with "youth angst" at the conformity of culture and the hypocrisy of adults. No, it wasn't all lovey-dovey money-money music.
Of course I could say all rap is ex-cons rhyming(not singing) about shooting people, but that would be wildly ignorant and would be indicative of me not actually having listened to any rap.
| Quote: |
| the difference is Ice Cube established his cred before receiving any major benefits from it. Besides, that accusation can then be made against any artist after a wildly successful first album. |
It's a reverse flow- in other places the Artist starts out independent and creative, makes it big, then alienates their fanbase by selling out.
Here the artist starts out packaged, makes it big, then pushes for more creative control, releases some 'weird' sounding album and alienates their fanbase.
| Quote: |
| I expect him to have more interesting and substantive things to say after his initial to all you ___ up Koreans shout-out, but saying something like that that will "offend" so many of them and shake them out of their culturally induced stupor is always a good start. |
Good grief, when Jo PD's album came out we were all waiting for it. None of my 1st gen. Korean friends were shocked and shaken out of a stupor. A few didn't like it, but they didn't like rap to begin with and listened to church music 24-7.
| Quote: |
| rather than being some queen boy fembot recruited to wear certain clothes, mouth certain lyrics and learn queer little " dance moves". |
My word the sexual insecurity on Dave's!
The queen boys are everywhere...run!!!
It all depends on the style. First few years it was all hip-hop and baggy jeans (which looked just as silly) then it went to a more 'suitty' look, then it went it metro-style. I'm sure in a year or two it will have moved onto something else, probably some sort of retro thing. [/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anjinsan
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Steel-buddy still cracking all of us up.
Don't knock K-pop b-boy girly bands or you'll get an earfull/eyefull from
the Korean music industry's great defender.
Just curious Steely, were you in (meaning: did you live in) Korea during HOT's glory days? Shinhwa? G.O.D.? Further, could it be possible that you yourself were in primary, middle, or high school at that time?
I was teaching middle school kids here in Korea at that time (about ten years back); and,
the little girls (because only the litle girls listened to them) taught me all I needed to know about those fun-boy "bands."
I think several others on this thread may have had similar experiences.
I bring this up because I want you to understand how much of a git you are making yourself look like by championing the cause of these
Backstreet Boys/NSync wannabes.
I would probably get beat up in less than five minutes if I walked into my favorite pub and proudly proclaimed my love for BSB and their revolutionary hit "I Want It That Way."
Really dude, even my daughter steers clear of that dancey prancey silliness.
From one dude to another dude, get into heavy metal or something. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| anjinsan wrote: |
From one dude to another dude, get into heavy metal or something. |
Whatever man, if you're Korean and you like that kind of music, you rake in the best looking Korean women.
A Korean twenty-something with a car and an arseload of K-pop MP3's has the potential to pull more than anyone on eslcafe could ever imagine.
I don't think any Korean really cares to conform to a western code of music-orientation based manliness |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anjinsan
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
djsmnc wrote:
"I don't think any Korean really cares to conform to a western code of music-orientation based manliness."
How is it that you can speak for all Koreans friend?
As I recall, in the past, big heavy metal acts have drawn well here in
Korea: Slayer, Sepultura, Ozzy, and Megadeth to mention a few.
I do know that the K. gov't has made it difficult for a lot of heavy metal albums to be sold here (issues over cover art and song titles) yet
folks still dig it.
Of course, Korea ain't nothing like Japan in terms of heavy metal/punk/hardcore following; but, we can hope that it gets bigger
here in Korea.
This is the type of subversiveness that Korea really needs, as opposed to
cutey-pie boy bands dancing in sync and making pretty faces for the
camera. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| anjinsan wrote: |
Steel-buddy still cracking all of us up.
Don't knock K-pop b-boy girly bands or you'll get an earfull/eyefull from
the Korean music industry's great defender.
Just curious Steely, were you in (meaning: did you live in) Korea during HOT's glory days? Shinhwa? G.O.D.? Further, could it be possible that you yourself were in primary, middle, or high school at that time?
I was teaching middle school kids here in Korea at that time (about ten years back); and,
the little girls (because only the litle girls listened to them) taught me all I needed to know about those fun-boy "bands."
I think several others on this thread may have had similar experiences.
I bring this up because I want you to understand how much of a git you are making yourself look like by championing the cause of these
Backstreet Boys/NSync wannabes.
I would probably get beat up in less than five minutes if I walked into my favorite pub and proudly proclaimed my love for BSB and their revolutionary hit "I Want It That Way."
Really dude, even my daughter steers clear of that dancey prancey silliness.
From one dude to another dude, get into heavy metal or something. |
I was in the States, where K-Pop was pretty trendy (as was pop in general) amongst Asian-Americans. Ih fact at our school kids of all races listened to Korean rap because it was something new.
They WERE boy-bands packaged and lips-synced, but there is a distinct difference in the lyrical content of some of the K-Groups and say an N'Sync.
| Quote: |
| I would probably get beat up in less than five minutes if I walked into my favorite pub and proudly proclaimed my love for BSB and their revolutionary hit "I Want It That Way." |
Nah, been there done that, everyone cracks a grin, a round of BSB is a guilty pleasure.
| Quote: |
| From one dude to another dude, get into heavy metal or something |
Been to Goatwhore? Macabre? Summoned? DBX? Gwar? Or just that silly metal like Lamb of God. I went out to a few black metal shows with a coworker of mine. IT was a cool scene- driving 4 hours to a random bar in a place like Angola, Indiana with a crowd of like 25 and afterward chilling with the band backstage (cough cough), who was pretty obscure if you weren't into the hardcore Death Metal scene. I enjoy all types of music. K-Pop isn't my favorite, but I've given it a try and do enjoy it. For about 6 years I didn't listen to it at all because there just weren't that many good groups or songs.
Heavy Metal is cool and all, but what it has in energy and grassroots-ness, it lacks in depth of emotion and breadth of experience. I mean how many songs about being angry can one listen to? How many songs about how the world will explode? I'd recommend some nice Soul or maybe some Gospel to do some housecleaning to. A good bluegrass tune for sunny days. Some good pop or hip hop or dare I say, K-pop for when your shopping or driving at night or out with Korean friends at the Noraebang. Some blues or Irish music for some good weeknight drinking at home. Techno for when your gaming. Country for slow conversations with friends. Big Band/Acid Jazz for a nice saturday party with friends.
As far as conformity and rebelliousness go, I see nothing rebellious about some guy in jeans and a band t-shirt/sports logo sweatshirt listening to Heavy Metal. In fact it comes across very conformist. No one gives you crap if you walk around like that.
Now one of my gay friends who was once on the cover of Fruit magazine (and a very stylish dresser and make-up wearer) got crap every 5 minutes walking down the streets. He didn't care, he didn't let that whole "you girly boy" talk stop him from doing what he liked. He was more "rebellious" and "counter-culture" than any heavy metal guy in a band t-shirt. Frankly he had more guts too.
Now over hear, yeah if your a K-dude walking around in a grungy band t-shirt and a non-girly look, yea you are the rebel. But there is more to being a rebel than just style. It's the values you hold and how you apply them. Anyone can throw on a t-shirt, others just go out and do things.
I will say that Korea totally lacks compared to Japan in breadth and appreciation of music. People here could definately stand to expand their bubble and their is an undercurrent of appreciation for metal. I just think that sometimes those K-Poopy groups are a little more feisty than we give them credit for. It's that whole weird indirect communication thing people here do. It's weird, at the same time you run across "that one Korean guy" who totally gets it and is real chill and just hates the K-Poop and he deserves credit too. Zombies always need to enjoy tunes sloshed, ultimately Koreans enjoy nothing? I dunno, rock just doesn't play well no matter how much the groups have tried.
I guess Koreans prefer rhythm and vocals and what not to instrumentation. Weird considering their obsession with technical skill at classical instruments. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
anjinsan
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Steel-buddy,
I am starting to like you more and more. You sound like a pretty cool dude with a variety of interests and personality traits.
It's been fun talking with you here!
Last edited by anjinsan on Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| anjinsan wrote: |
djsmnc wrote:
"I don't think any Korean really cares to conform to a western code of music-orientation based manliness."
How is it that you can speak for all Koreans friend?
As I recall, in the past, big heavy metal acts have drawn well here in
Korea: Slayer, Sepultura, Ozzy, and Megadeth to mention a few.
I do know that the K. gov't has made it difficult for a lot of heavy metal albums to be sold here (issues over cover art and song titles) yet
folks still dig it.
|
I wasn't trying to say I can speak for all Koreans, though actually I can, because I'm fking K-God. Anyway, as I said, I don't think Korean musical taste has much of an association with the type of person one is as opposed to the way it does for, say, North American high-schoolers.
If you want to be a rebel here, you can just go out on the street in olive drab and praise the virtues of Juche |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| anjinsan wrote: |
djsmnc wrote:
"I don't think any Korean really cares to conform to a western code of music-orientation based manliness."
How is it that you can speak for all Koreans friend?
As I recall, in the past, big heavy metal acts have drawn well here in
Korea: Slayer, Sepultura, Ozzy, and Megadeth to mention a few.
I do know that the K. gov't has made it difficult for a lot of heavy metal albums to be sold here (issues over cover art and song titles) yet
folks still dig it.
Of course, Korea ain't nothing like Japan in terms of heavy metal/punk/hardcore following; but, we can hope that it gets bigger
here in Korea.
This is the type of subversiveness that Korea really needs, as opposed to
cutey-pie boy bands dancing in sync and making pretty faces for the
camera. |
at my school festival one of the new K male teachers I'm guessing around 40 sang Judas Priest's "Before the Dawn".
I think it's the only ballad Priest ever made but needless to say I was SHOCKED.
I've tried to open up some young Korean minds to other music, ranging from Godsmack to Alice in Chains to showing them mixes of styles like rock and rap, but it's really a waste of my time so I've given up.
They'll listen to their little boy/girl bands and I won't.
they also seem to like something called Westlife.
what the hell is Westlife?
p.s. rails I'll reserve the right to disagree with you when warranted, but I'll have to do a +1 on anjinsan's props to you above. yes.. the boy fembots annoy me to no end, and I can't/won't change my mind. I'd have more respect for them if they just came out or tried being/acting/looking like animals or aliens rather than women. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LosSeoul
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cerberus wrote: |
I've tried to open up some young Korean minds to other music, ranging from Godsmack to Alice in Chains to showing them mixes of styles like rock and rap, but it's really a waste of my time so I've given up.
|
Godsmack? Alice in Chains? really? thank god you gave up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cerberus
Joined: 29 Oct 2009
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LosSeoul wrote: |
| Cerberus wrote: |
I've tried to open up some young Korean minds to other music, ranging from Godsmack to Alice in Chains to showing them mixes of styles like rock and rap, but it's really a waste of my time so I've given up.
|
Godsmack? Alice in Chains? really? thank god you gave up. |
that's your opinion 
actually there was a method to my madness so to speak. They asked me for my fave stuff.
in those 2 instances , I wanted to introduce them to some hard edged rock, which to my knowledge doesn't exist anymore. Green Day's fine, but it's really quite vanilla.
I get a rush of adrenaline each and every time I hear Godsmack's Straight Out of Line cranked up.
in the case of AIC, it was actually the unplugged version of my fave song.. Would. They wanted to know my favorite song to sing in a norebang. Several of them were music students and I wanted to show them how cool minor chords can be in rock, as demonstrated by AIC.
but they want to listen to Westlife 
so they listen to theirs and I listen to mine.
I did show them some Taylor Swift stuff to show "country music" even though it's more pop than country (but that's how things are trending now)
That got their attention, but I think it was lithe blonde Taylor rather than her music.
I showed them a great JayZ-Linkin park live clip and that didn't particularly excite them either.
They're just not into hard edged stuff. They like ballads, and Westlife
and they wear clothing that little kids stateside stop wearing when entering puberty, pajamas with teddy bears on it, actually I think teddy bears are out around 9 for boys stateside. You can wear superheroes till puberty.
despite it all, I still quite like my students.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cerberus, Perhaps the reason they don't respect your music is that you don't seem to respect theirs. Your posts ooze disrespect towards their music, their culture, and them. If you can't appreciate some (not all) of K-Pop (especially the ballads), well then that's a failure of ear and understanding.
Also, your music seems one-dimensional, overwhelmingly male, angry, and "loud".
The on artist you did introduce that wasn't male, angry, and loud, got the most interest. Perhaps a correlation?
The Ks I know enjoy oldies and standards, classical, gospel, light jazz, very soft rock, hip-hop, techno, and pop. Try a range from- Old Beatles and Monkees tunes or some Sinatra for the older crowd, throw on a generic mix of classical, or try out some Glenn Miller or Louis Armstrong, maybe Fleetwood Mac? Then for the young kids- Kanye, Britney, and the like. Koreans like to know that the music is popular (with foreigners and Koreans alike), this way when they go out to sing it with their friends, they can sign together.
| Quote: |
| They're just not into hard edged stuff. They like ballads, and Westlife |
I think your students feel the exact same way about you as them, only in reverse- why is his music so angry? where are the pleasing vocals? how can you dance to this music? Why doesn't he give your music a try? How come we don't sing songs we can sing together? How come his music is about separating people and not bringing them together?
| Quote: |
| and they wear clothing that little kids stateside stop wearing when entering puberty, pajamas with teddy bears on it, actually I think teddy bears are out around 9 for boys stateside. You can wear superheroes till puberty. |
Being 16 and angry at daddy and the world and breaking all the rules is not a sign of maturity either. Moderation in all things.
| Quote: |
| Godsmack to Alice in Chains, JayZ-Linkin Park, |
It doesn't help that 2 of the 4 artists sound like garbage and btw all are super-mainstream. No one is a rebel for listening to Godsmack or Linkin Park.
That being said, keep on trucking and opening their ears, the more exposure the better. Who knows, you'll probably reach that one kid who will be that guy 30 years from now singing the Godsmack song and stunning the NET. Life goes on.
My biggest stunning moment was back stateside me and some friends were out washing our cars and I was playing some Hank Williams, Sr. Korean girl who is total pop-rap top 40, asked me who it was and said she really liked the music and moved her car next to mine to listen to it.
Other great one was first time at the Noraebang in the states this one K-kid who was a total starcraft geek and church boy gets on and belts out Steelheart's "She's Gone" note for note.
The cause is not lost! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LosSeoul
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cerberus wrote: |
| LosSeoul wrote: |
| Cerberus wrote: |
I've tried to open up some young Korean minds to other music, ranging from Godsmack to Alice in Chains to showing them mixes of styles like rock and rap, but it's really a waste of my time so I've given up.
|
Godsmack? Alice in Chains? really? thank god you gave up. |
that's your opinion
actually there was a method to my madness so to speak. They asked me for my fave stuff.
in those 2 instances , I wanted to introduce them to some hard edged rock, which to my knowledge doesn't exist anymore. Green Day's fine, but it's really quite vanilla.
I get a rush of adrenaline each and every time I hear Godsmack's Straight Out of Line cranked up.
in the case of AIC, it was actually the unplugged version of my fave song.. Would. They wanted to know my favorite song to sing in a norebang. Several of them were music students and I wanted to show them how cool minor chords can be in rock, as demonstrated by AIC.
but they want to listen to Westlife
so they listen to theirs and I listen to mine.
I did show them some Taylor Swift stuff to show "country music" even though it's more pop than country (but that's how things are trending now)
That got their attention, but I think it was lithe blonde Taylor rather than her music.
I showed them a great JayZ-Linkin park live clip and that didn't particularly excite them either.
They're just not into hard edged stuff. They like ballads, and Westlife
and they wear clothing that little kids stateside stop wearing when entering puberty, pajamas with teddy bears on it, actually I think teddy bears are out around 9 for boys stateside. You can wear superheroes till puberty.
despite it all, I still quite like my students. |
Sorry i didnt mean to come off as a dick, i was joking...that didnt come off very well i guess haha
Thats cool that your trying to swap music tastes...but I'm interested in finding a trend/scene/whatever that is both counter to both western and korean cultures... godsmack/alice in chains/taylor swift/greenday is all pretty main stream (not that its not fine music if thats what floats your boat)
hah this thread has gone of the deep end, but thanks to all the great info I go hopefully I can translate it into some worthwhile research and what not |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
