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visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:37 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

visitorq wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

visitorq wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Where did I say I don't know about economics?

You implied it when you wrote that ESL teachers (including yourself) don't know what they're talking about in regards to economics/finance. Obviously.

.

(bolding mine)

Any particular reason you are lying about what I said? I never wrote any such thing. Go back through this thread and see for yourself.

You might consider leaving this thread to spare yourself any further humiliation.

I think what you mean is I should leave this thread to spare you from further humiliation (not going to happen).

Here's what you wrote verbatim:

Quote:

I post on a teaching forum because I've plenty of experience both back home and here. If I were to post about high finance I would post that on an appropriate message board, not here at Dave's.
And I would also make sure that I know what I am talking about. Try it, you might like it.

The implication here is OBVIOUSLY that you think nobody on a teaching forum like Dave's has experience enough to post about high finance, and that we don't know what we're talking about. This also means that you, as a teacher, don't know what you are talking about (unless you were trying to say you're somehow a special?? an exception??). Give me a break.

Implication is not the issue here (and unless you claim to able to read my mind there is no way you can tell this). The issue is what you claimed I WROTE.

You know the difference I take it?

You said and I quote "you wrote that ESL teachers (including yourself) don't know what they are talking about in regards to economics/finance"

Only I never wrote that so that is a lie.

And JFYI that was not what I was implying. Read it again more carefully.

Oh please. You're knit picking the words I in brackets. Lame. Allow me to write it again without the brackets:

"you wrote that ESL teachers don't know what they are talking about in regards to economics/finance".

No lie there. That's what you wrote. Now allow me to re-write the bracketed part to rephrase the obvious:

"you wrote that ESL teachers (which therefore, by definition, includes yourself, whether you wrote it or not) don't know what they are talking about in regards to economics/finance".

Done.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:48 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Where in this thread did I attack Mises? Or for that matter dismiss his economic theories? I merely agreed with Ya-Ta that people who really know what is going on are not likely to be spending time on a obscure Internet chat board.

That doesn't mean (as some people with poor reading comprehension would have it) that there is NO-ONE here with some grasp of the facts and realities.

Bottom line is its really not for you to say who knows what's really going on. The rest of us may not be privvy to the back door deals that go on in at the Fed or on Wall Street in real time, but that doesn't mean it's not possible for outsiders to know perfectly well what goes on after the fact, and in general. The information is available, and much of it (published by real experts) is cited on here by us lowly Dave's posters (apparently you've not taken the time to read any of it yourself though).

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

[quo

"you wrote that ESL teachers don't know what they are talking about in regards to economics/finance".

No lie there. That's what you wrote. Now allow me to re-write the bracketed part to rephrase the obvious:

"you wrote that ESL teachers (which therefore, by definition, includes yourself, whether you wrote it or not) don't know what they are talking about in regards to economics/finance".

Done.

Where did I say "ESL teachers don't know what they are talking about about in regards to economics/finance"?

Fact is I never said that. So that is false. Fact

NOW we're done. Either find that post that includes that quote or be quiet. Not a post which has you claiming I said it, I want to see a post by me in which I clearly said the above quote.

And you won't be able to produce one.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Where did I say "ESL teachers don't know what they are talking about about in regards to economics/finance"?

Once more, here's what you wrote verbatim:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:22 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Where did I say "ESL teachers don't know what they are talking about about in regards to economics/finance"?

Here's what you wrote verbatim:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

EXACTLY. I never said "ESL teachers don't know what they are talking about in regards to economic/finance." I was talking about myself and why I post on a teaching forum. I also said if I (not ESL teachers, I=myself and no one else) were to post about high finance I would post that on a different message board not Dave's.

I also said that I (not ESL teachers, I=myself and not anyone else) would make sure that I (not ESL teachers, I=myself and not any other teacher) would make sure that I (myself and no other) know what I (which of course means only myself) am talking about.

Only someone who is totally out of touch with reality could think that "I" somehow means all ESL teachers or even the vast majority of them.

I THEN suggested that the poster I was responding to give it a go as well.

How you extrapolate that to mean ESL teachers in general is beyond me.

Next week tune in for what "he" and "she" mean and the differences between them.

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:48 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

visitorq wrote:

You may not have said it verbatim, but you said it implicitly.

mises

Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:48 am Post subject:

The Happy Warrior wrote:

Mises' biggest vulnerability is his cynicism.

I assume you're right. This is why I post here. I gotta get it out of my system on the interwebs so that when these topics come up on real life, I can go on with the herd spitting whatever platitude the status-seekers have adopted for that day.

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:29 pm Post subject:

bacasper wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

visitorq wrote:

You may not have said it verbatim, but you said it implicitly.

Only it was claimed that I actually WROTE that, not implied that. You are aware of the difference I take it? All I'm asking is that people not fabricate my quotes and then attribute positions to me based on said fabrications. I don't think that's unreasonable to ask.

And for the record I do think that mises for one is spot on in at least some of his observations. So there you are.

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

You really love being disingenuous don't you? Seriously, anyone else who read it can tell the difference between paraphrasing using reported speech and misquoting by direct quotation (using quotation marks). It's beyond obvious that I was doing the former.

Anyway, congratulations, you managed to derail the discussion for so long with your pedantic mincing of words (instead of just facing up to the obvious fact of what you were implying) that nobody (including me) any longer cares or even remembers the original point. Great debating skillz you got there...

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:13 pm Post subject:

visitorq wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

No it isn't. Here's a tip. When paraphrasing put it in brackets [] not quotation marks " "

On second thought don't bother. I've better things to do then deal with disingenuous people who when caught in a fabrication try and cover up by claiming they were paraphrasing.

One more thing. Why is it when I respond to one of you (bacasper or you) the other one often jumps in to respond?

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:13 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

visitorq wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

No it isn't. Here's a tip. When paraphrasing put it in brackets [] not quotation marks " "

I did NOT use quotation marks! Go back and read it! Seriously, you're so full of crap it's coming out your ears. I even quoted you verbatim afterwards to compare it to my paraphrasing what you had said. Laughing

Quote:

On second thought don't bother. I've better things to do then deal with disingenuous people who when caught in a fabrication try and cover up by claiming they were paraphrasing.

No, you don't have better things to do. You live for this sort of thing. All I've ever seen you do on Dave's is get into pointless pedantic arguments and act smug, without contributing anything.

Quote:

One more thing. Why is it when I respond to one of you (bacasper or you) the other one often jumps in to respond?

Because we're each others' sock, can't you tell? Since you're sooo discerning and clever I'm surprised it's taken you this long to figure out. Rolling Eyes

bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007

Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

One more thing. Why is it when I respond to one of you (bacasper or you) the other one often jumps in to respond?

You are asking the wrong question. You should ask me why I hold my tongue (fingers?) so much when so much crap is spewed but I don't except for the times it is near unavoidable.

Anyway, I'll have to try to make sure I am logged into the right account next time I respond. Rolling Eyes

Or maybe it is because great minds think alike?

Or maybe because we invented the whole third-party response thing. No one on Dave's has ever responded to someone else's post before. Rolling Eyes

visitorq wrote:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

On second thought don't bother. I've better things to do then deal with disingenuous people who when caught in a fabrication try and cover up by claiming they were paraphrasing.

No, you don't have better things to do. You live for this sort of thing. All I've ever seen you do on Dave's is get into pointless pedantic arguments and act smug, without contributing anything.

You accurately called him "disingenuous," then he called you it back Exclamation

"I know you are, but what am I?"
"I'm rubber, you're glue..."

Why do I get the impression I am in a schoolyard?

TheUrbanMyth

Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:20 am Post subject:

bacasper wrote:

[:

"I know you are, but what am I?"
"I'm rubber, you're glue..."

Why do I get the impression I am in a schoolyard?

I like to tailor my discourse to the reading comprehension and maturity level of my audience.

And looky here, you picked up on it right away.

On a more serious note...you (or was it your little buddy) wanted to know what I contribute to this forum? On the contract sticky thread alone you can find dozens (literally) of posts thanking me for looking over their contracts and providing that service.

Maybe you or your buddy q would like to pop in there from time to time and give the newbies the benefit of your extensive experience and wisdom?

visitorq

Joined: 11 Jan 2008

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:32 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

bacasper wrote:

[:

"I know you are, but what am I?"
"I'm rubber, you're glue..."

Why do I get the impression I am in a schoolyard?

So? You want a cookie or something? None of your self-congratulation (and as if I'm going to waste my time trying to verify something not even on the current events forum, or in any way related to the discussion at hand) changes the fact that pretty much all you ever do on here is get into petty arguments about nothing. But go ahead and give yourself a pat on the back if it makes you feel better, I don't see anyone else jumping to your defense.

The Happy Warrior

Joined: 10 Feb 2010

Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:46 am Post subject:

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

The Happy Warrior wrote:

jaykimf wrote:

bacasper wrote:

Mises has a masters in economics and ontheway has taught it at the university level, as well as having international economics experience and read tons of books in his field. He has posted in detail on some of these subjects, only for his mini-treatises to be glibly dismissed by some smidgen-heads on here who maybe took Econ 101. It is farcical, really.

Since mises himself said that everything he learned in graduate school is garbage (or something like that), his having a masters degree isn't much of a qualification. He disagrees with most professional economists, or, to turn it around, most of the experts disagree with mises. Mises may be fringe minority, but at least he is still within the realm of rational plausibility and on the fringe of real economics . Even if mises if largely correct, glibly dismissing the vast majority of professional economists who disagree with him would be even more farcical.

This is just a run-of-the-mill ad populum fallacy. So what if he disagrees with 'most professional economists,' I'd still like to see an argument showing how he does and why its wrong. And it doesn't really answer bacasper's concern, namely that Ya-Ta and TUM (who presumably have little professional economic training) are dismissing the economic theories of two posters who have extensive economic training.

Mises' biggest vulnerability is his cynicism. But whatever, that may hurt how many people he persuades but goes little to assail the truth of what he says. His opponents' vulnerability is that they tend to attack mises rather than mises' ideas. That's a much greater problem.

I never said you attacked mises, but that you are dismissing his theories. If I'm wrong, and you're not being dismissive of his theories, feel free to say so.

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

I post on a teaching forum because I've plenty of experience both back home and here. If I were to post about high finance I would post that on an appropriate message board, not here at Dave's.

This is a current events forum. Yes, its part of a board devoted to ESL teaching. But haven't you figured out why it may be pertinent for teachers to be educated in economics and current events? I know it comes up in my classes regularly, even without me introducing it.

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