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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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 Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| The longer you stay, the harder it is to go back home. Been away for nearly a decade and while I'm not sure about staying in Korea forever, I highly doubt I'll go back to the US after this. Not really sure where to go. |
I read on the international section of Dave's a post from a longtimer who said worldwide salaries in the ESL industry are going down. The same poster in another thread wrote:
| Quote: |
| VERY difficult to get into another line after TEFLing around. I tried. I returned to TEFLing after unsuccessful attempts to change career path |
Very sad. |
Wages should go down--think about it, we are paid to speak in our native language. That's IT! We are paid because we hit the location-of-birth lottery. Here, we are hired farmhands moreorless. A greeter at Walmart. A bell shaker for the Salvation Army. A bag boy at the supermarket. A cleaning lady. A telemarketer. You get the picture.
The only reason we are paid what we are is because we had the sack to leave our families for a year (or more) and agree to board a plane and travel here. But when we step off the plane that's where it all evens out. We blend in with the grandpas collecting cardboard on the street. |
Speak for yourself. Some of us have BAs, MAs, and PhDs in English education. We don't just "speak". |
Yes this is a point Dodge often misses in his hurry to pass judgement on the entire ESL industry and on the foreign teachers that work in it. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| In fact, the reality is that in many parts of Canada there is a long waiting list.. |
Yes. In the most desirable parts. I guess if they want a job, they will have to accept something outside of Toronto. I mean that's what you tell people who are looking for a job in Korea, but are having a hard time: you tell them to stop being so picky about location.
In Canada, if you are willing to relocate, you can find a teaching job.
In the United States, if you are willing to relocate, you can find a teaching job.
(I'm speaking about licensed teachers.) |
In a Canadian context, if by relocate you mean outlying small communities in the deep north then sure, you are right. Otherwise, for many provinves, even small towns have waiting lists for teachers in the PS system.
Finally, and one more time: your average EFL-ESL Teacher in Korea does not even qualify for a Public School teaching position in Canada (or the US) as he or she typically does not have a teaching liscence/certification. So the comparison is deeply flawed. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| In fact, the reality is that in many parts of Canada there is a long waiting list.. |
Yes. In the most desirable parts. I guess if they want a job, they will have to accept something outside of Toronto. I mean that's what you tell people who are looking for a job in Korea, but are having a hard time: you tell them to stop being so picky about location.
In Canada, if you are willing to relocate, you can find a teaching job.
In the United States, if you are willing to relocate, you can find a teaching job.
(I'm speaking about licensed teachers.) |
In a Canadian context, if by relocate you mean outlying small communities in the deep north then sure, you are right. Otherwise, for many provinves, even small towns have waiting lists for teachers in the PS system.
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This is very dependent on what province you live in. Rural Alberta and Saskatchewan are very promising whereas Southern Ontario is the opposite.
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Finally, and one more time: your average EFL-ESL Teacher in Korea does not even qualify for a Public School teaching position in Canada (or the US) as he or she typically does not have a teaching liscence/certification. So the comparison is deeply flawed. |
Pff..A B.Ed is a cake walk. Instead of someone forking out thousands of dollars for non-accredited TESOL certificates, why not go the extra buck and a half and get something that will serve them well wherever they want to go in the future. The step up to international schools from English academies is worth it even if you never end up teaching in Canada. |
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Waygeek
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: I made more money in 2005 than now |
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| youtuber wrote: |
Average wage in 2005 was about 2 million.
Average wage now is about 2.3 million.
Back in 2005, 2 million was about $2350 CAD.
Now, 2.3 million works out to about $2100 CAD.
The combination of stagnant wages and horrible exchange rate means the average teacher is earning less than 5 years ago.
Awesome.
Have you started planning your exit? I have. |
Stagnant wages? If you've not been trying to climb the ladder for the last seven years you can hardly blame it on the economy. If you want to earn canadian dollars, work in canada. We earn Won here. Cause we live in Korea. |
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byrddogs
Joined: 19 Jun 2009
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't work in Korea anymore, but I still work for a K school in another country. I'm happy to report that I got a raise in base salary and housing allowance this week. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:34 am Post subject: Re: I made more money in 2005 than now |
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| youtuber wrote: |
Average wage in 2005 was about 2 million.
Average wage now is about 2.3 million.
Back in 2005, 2 million was about $2350 CAD.
Now, 2.3 million works out to about $2100 CAD.
The combination of stagnant wages and horrible exchange rate means the average teacher is earning less than 5 years ago.
Awesome.
Have you started planning your exit? I have. |
Forget about the base salary. What do you earn? If your salary has only gone up 300 000 won in 8 years, you're doing something wrong. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:47 am Post subject: Re: I made more money in 2005 than now |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| youtuber wrote: |
Average wage in 2005 was about 2 million.
Average wage now is about 2.3 million.
Back in 2005, 2 million was about $2350 CAD.
Now, 2.3 million works out to about $2100 CAD.
The combination of stagnant wages and horrible exchange rate means the average teacher is earning less than 5 years ago.
Awesome.
Have you started planning your exit? I have. |
Forget about the base salary. What do you earn? If your salary has only gone up 300 000 won in 8 years, you're doing something wrong. |
Agreed! |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Why oh why didn't I choose Accounting to specialize in for my BBA instead of management? Turned out to be nothing more than a glorified arts degree!! Oh well, maybe, I'll go home and take some courses and go for a designation or something. This lack of wage growth is getting to be a drag. Like other posters said, you use to be able to make money here. |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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That's right, always blame the individual. If wages are stagnating, then obviously the individual is just not working hard enough.
It is a tough economy out there. A lot of businesses are feeling the crunch and salaries are being pinched. Korean workers have less money to spend on education and the government has been working hard to alleviate costs by creating more opportunities and more competition into the education market.
The reality is it is harder for many NETs in Korea to make a living. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
That's right, always blame the individual. If wages are stagnating, then obviously the individual is just not working hard enough.
It is a tough economy out there. A lot of businesses are feeling the crunch and salaries are being pinched. Korean workers have less money to spend on education and the government has been working hard to alleviate costs by creating more opportunities and more competition into the education market.
The reality is it is harder for many NETs in Korea to make a living. |
I've met people who've willingly changed jobs half a dozen times in the 10 years they've been here (some had secure and stable university jobs). They have nobody but themselves to blame for being stuck at the base salary after all those years. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:15 am Post subject: |
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The "oh, it's worse back in the US and Canada" isn't necessarily the argument, FYI.
Longtime teacher I know just went to the Middle East making more than double her wage here (another friend said it's actually close to triple, but I don't have confirmation on that).
A guy I just bought some stuff from today is heading back to China. He said he's moving to a job paying almost exactly the same as he's making here, and he will be able to save more.
In other words, this is no longer a Korea vs. North America argument. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
The "oh, it's worse back in the US and Canada" isn't necessarily the argument, FYI.
Longtime teacher I know just went to the Middle East making more than double her wage here (another friend said it's actually close to triple, but I don't have confirmation on that).
A guy I just bought some stuff from today is heading back to China. He said he's moving to a job paying almost exactly the same as he's making here, and he will be able to save more.
In other words, this is no longer a Korea vs. North America argument. |
Question swamp: with a child just starting school and your wife, would you head to the Middle East to teach or to China? |
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seansmith
Joined: 31 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm working at an international school in Shanghai (having left Korea in 2007). A recruiter from The University of British Columbia (UBC) came to pitch/promote UBC to our Grade 12 students. I talked to him about teaching jobs in Canada. He said without a trace of humour or irony that "there were jobs in the Arctic."
A Vancouver Sun article earlier this year noted that there were 2700 teachers in B.C. applying for only 1000 openings. Things are bleak. People sub, but they only get called every second day, earning about $15,000 per year. A new term has emerged to describe this sad state: Professional Poverty. And if you start subbing and do it for more than 2 years, a school principal just sees you as a sub, not a teacher who can handle a real subject course load. Anyway as some poster(s) have noted you need to have a teaching certification to be eligible anyway.
You veteran ESLers should be worried about a not-so-new term: Credential Creep. You will increasingly need higher qualifications to get jobs that didn't require these qualifications 5 or 10 years ago. If you don't "upgrade" you could be in trouble, or at least boxed out of jobs that you want. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| The longer you stay, the harder it is to go back home. Been away for nearly a decade and while I'm not sure about staying in Korea forever, I highly doubt I'll go back to the US after this. Not really sure where to go. |
I read on the international section of Dave's a post from a longtimer who said worldwide salaries in the ESL industry are going down. The same poster in another thread wrote:
| Quote: |
| VERY difficult to get into another line after TEFLing around. I tried. I returned to TEFLing after unsuccessful attempts to change career path |
Very sad. |
Wages should go down--think about it, we are paid to speak in our native language. That's IT! We are paid because we hit the location-of-birth lottery. Here, we are hired farmhands moreorless. A greeter at Walmart. A bell shaker for the Salvation Army. A bag boy at the supermarket. A cleaning lady. A telemarketer. You get the picture.
The only reason we are paid what we are is because we had the sack to leave our families for a year (or more) and agree to board a plane and travel here. But when we step off the plane that's where it all evens out. We blend in with the grandpas collecting cardboard on the street. |
Speak for yourself. Some of us have BAs, MAs, and PhDs in English education. We don't just "speak". |
I'm speaking to you too *as well as myself* because I am licensed in America with a Middle School Education degree...IN ENGLISH. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Dodge7 wrote: |
| 12ax7 wrote: |
| Dodge7 wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| naturegirl321 wrote: |
| The longer you stay, the harder it is to go back home. Been away for nearly a decade and while I'm not sure about staying in Korea forever, I highly doubt I'll go back to the US after this. Not really sure where to go. |
I read on the international section of Dave's a post from a longtimer who said worldwide salaries in the ESL industry are going down. The same poster in another thread wrote:
| Quote: |
| VERY difficult to get into another line after TEFLing around. I tried. I returned to TEFLing after unsuccessful attempts to change career path |
Very sad. |
Wages should go down--think about it, we are paid to speak in our native language. That's IT! We are paid because we hit the location-of-birth lottery. Here, we are hired farmhands moreorless. A greeter at Walmart. A bell shaker for the Salvation Army. A bag boy at the supermarket. A cleaning lady. A telemarketer. You get the picture.
The only reason we are paid what we are is because we had the sack to leave our families for a year (or more) and agree to board a plane and travel here. But when we step off the plane that's where it all evens out. We blend in with the grandpas collecting cardboard on the street. |
Speak for yourself. Some of us have BAs, MAs, and PhDs in English education. We don't just "speak". |
I'm speaking to you too *as well as myself* because I am licensed in America with a Middle School Education degree...IN ENGLISH. |
Then there is NO reason for you to be stuck at some 2.3 job..... |
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