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machoman
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| metalhead wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
If you like kids, go to the library and study the easiest kiddy books.
Some kids like for adults to read those kiddy books to.
Or volunteer someplace.
If there is an orphanage close by, then there are children craving for adult attention close by. |
Wow that's insanely creepy. |
Demonizing adult males who take joy in positive interaction with children is what's creepy. This idea that any man who enjoys interacting with children is "creepy" is quite literally damaging western society. Congratulations on doing you're small part to be a foot soldier of dysfunction. |
is it really?
one of the markers of a child predator is a male who actively seeks out children. someone, who if they're at something like a social gathering, or party, spends more time with the children than adults.
they're also people who know the child well and the child trusts them. they're not strangers.
so even if you think it's demonizing, it's also something people need to be aware of because it happens more often than you think. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| machoman wrote: |
is it really?
one of the markers of a child predator is a male who actively seeks out children. |
Yes, and one of the marks of a rapist is that he actively seeks out women. Does that mean every man that goes to a place where women are is a rapist? Of course not. Apply the logic.
It's time to stop demonizing our fellow citizens. This isn't healthy behavior.
| machoman wrote: |
| so even if you think it's demonizing, it's also something people need to be aware of because it happens more often than you think. |
No, machoman, it happens far less often than you think. Media hysteria has our society so hyped up and afraid. It's pathetic, and it's harmful. It really does break my heart a little bit to see some nice old guy like tomato talk about how he likes to read books to kids in his spare time and essentially be suspected of pedophilia because of it. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| machoman wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| metalhead wrote: |
| tomato wrote: |
If you like kids, go to the library and study the easiest kiddy books.
Some kids like for adults to read those kiddy books to.
Or volunteer someplace.
If there is an orphanage close by, then there are children craving for adult attention close by. |
Wow that's insanely creepy. |
Demonizing adult males who take joy in positive interaction with children is what's creepy. This idea that any man who enjoys interacting with children is "creepy" is quite literally damaging western society. Congratulations on doing you're small part to be a foot soldier of dysfunction. |
is it really?
one of the markers of a child predator is a male who actively seeks out children. someone, who if they're at something like a social gathering, or party, spends more time with the children than adults.
they're also people who know the child well and the child trusts them. they're not strangers.
so even if you think it's demonizing, it's also something people need to be aware of because it happens more often than you think. |
So the option is to suspect men who like playing with children? My father was well known for "being great with kids" and often was surrounded by neighborhood kids because they knew he'd organize something fun.
And I like to think I'm a bit like that. Good with kids. If people want to suspect men like me and my father of any ill-intent I think that's really sad and worrying about society.
I'd rather not think in that fearful way. And I'm a father. |
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machoman
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| machoman wrote: |
is it really?
one of the markers of a child predator is a male who actively seeks out children. |
Yes, and one of the marks of a rapist is that he actively seeks out women. Does that mean every man that goes to a place where women are is a rapist? Of course not. Apply the logic.
It's time to stop demonizing our fellow citizens. This isn't healthy behavior.
| machoman wrote: |
| so even if you think it's demonizing, it's also something people need to be aware of because it happens more often than you think. |
No, machoman, it happens far less often than you think. Media hysteria has our society so hyped up and afraid. It's pathetic, and it's harmful. It really does break my heart a little bit to see some nice old guy like tomato talk about how he likes to read books to kids in his spare time and essentially be suspected of pedophilia because of it. |
i would have to say that for a man, seeking out women and seeking out children is very very different. for a man, there's a biological and social imperative to find a mate. there are chemicals at work for men to be attracted to women, it's what drives a man, in many cases.
but for an adult male to want to spend more time with kids then his peers, for me, personally, i find it strange.
and, why are you so quick to make a heated debate out of everything?
eamo, more power to you for having an open and trusting heart. i'm not a father yet, but i think i would be very wary of any adult males wanting to spend too much time with my child. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| machoman wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| machoman wrote: |
is it really?
one of the markers of a child predator is a male who actively seeks out children. |
Yes, and one of the marks of a rapist is that he actively seeks out women. Does that mean every man that goes to a place where women are is a rapist? Of course not. Apply the logic.
It's time to stop demonizing our fellow citizens. This isn't healthy behavior.
| machoman wrote: |
| so even if you think it's demonizing, it's also something people need to be aware of because it happens more often than you think. |
No, machoman, it happens far less often than you think. Media hysteria has our society so hyped up and afraid. It's pathetic, and it's harmful. It really does break my heart a little bit to see some nice old guy like tomato talk about how he likes to read books to kids in his spare time and essentially be suspected of pedophilia because of it. |
eamo, more power to you for having an open and trusting heart. i'm not a father yet, but i think i would be very wary of any adult males wanting to spend too much time with my child. |
Yeah, too much time might ring some alarm bells......but we were talking about doing some volunteering at orphanages etc for 1-2 hours per week. Playing some English games or whatever......A man doing that would never really raise an eyebrow with me. Indeed, I know good men who do that kind of thing. |
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machoman
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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i don't think what you're saying is creepy either, especially if you go through an organization for volunteer work, but tomato wrote:
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If you like kids, go to the library and study the easiest kiddy books.
Some kids like for adults to read those kiddy books to. |
the way that it's written out, does sound a bit strange. i can't imagine, if i were a father, a man walking into the library, sitting down, opening up a kiddy book then offering to read to a random child. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hello, Fox!
Hello, eamo!
감사합니다!
Hello, metalhead!
Hello, machoman!
How is reading books to kids in the library any different from teaching children in a 학원 or 학교?
Or is an adult male allowed to work with children only as long as he doesn't enjoy it?
The sexual drive is a human instinct, but so is the paternal drive. You know why men are attracted to women with hourglass figures? According to Guthrie (1976: 98) and Durden-Smith & deSimone (1983: 245), large hips imply that the woman can easily give birth to an infant and large breasts imply that the woman can adequately feed an infant.
Symons (1995: 91) sees this trait as "a reliable index of age, hormonal status, parity, fecundity, and health." According to Symons, a pubescent girl grows "reproductive fat" in the pelvis and uses it during late pregnancy and lactation.
In prehistoric times, long before the blender was invented and before baby food was sold in the supermarket, adults fed infants by chewing on food and transferring the food to the infants' mouths. The infants learned to receive food by puckering their lips. This became such an essential survival skill that it became impressed in their genes.
Eventually, the puckered lips became not only a signal for feeding but an expression of affection. Parents came to respond to puckered lips with puckered lips, even when they were not mouth-feeding (Givens, 1978).
Consequently, puckered lips appear cute because they imply an invitation to kiss (Eibl-Eibesfeldt, [1970] 1972: 137). Not surprisingly, parents all over the world express affection to children by kissing them on the lips (Eibl-Eibesfeldt, [1970] 1972: 140, 1990).
Kissing is not a uniquely human trait. Chimpanzee mothers feed mouth-to-mouth, just like prehistoric and primitive humans. Consequently, chimpanzees kiss, just as we do (Eibl-Eibesfeldt, [1970] 1972: 135-1366; Morris, 1967: 157-158), especially as a sign of submission (van Lawick-Goodall, 1968b), reassurance (van Lawick-Goodall, 1968b), or greeting (Darwin, 1873: 215; van Lawick-Goodall, 1968b; Scheflen & Scheflen, 1972: 5).
So: when mating couples kiss, they are imitating parent/child dyads!
This practice is not confined just to our class, either. You've seen baby birds receive worms by opening their beaks? Adult birds borrow from baby birds by opening their beaks as a mating signal (Eibl-Eibesfeldt, [1970] 1972: 111-113).
Perhaps Freud was wrong in implying that the sexual drive was the deepest and most basic of all drives. If it were, parent/child dyads would borrow practices from mating couples rather than vice-versa.
In case you're still suspicious of me, I have been working with children in 학교's and 학원�s in Korea for 11 years. Either I haven't done anything to merit getting imprisoned or deported or I've done a thorough job of covering my tracks.
BIBLIOGRAPHY
Darwin, C. R. 1873. Expression of emotions in man and animals. New York: Appleton.
Durden-Smith, J. & deSimone, D. 1983. Sex and the brain. New York: Warner Books.
Eibl-Eibesfeldt, I. (Stracham, G., transl.). [1970] 1972. [b7]Love and hate: The natural history of behavior patterns[/b]. New York: Holt, Rinehart & Winston.
Givens, D. B. 1978. The nonverbal basis of attraction: Flirtation, courtship, and seduction. Psychiatry 41: 346-359.
Guthrie, R. D. 1976. Body hot spots: The anatomy of human social organs and behavior. New York: Van Nostrand.
Morris, D. 1967. The naked ape: A zoologist's study of the human animal. New York: McGraw-Hill.
Scheflen, A. E. & Scheflen, A. 1972. Body language and social order: Communication as behavioral control. Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall.
Symons, D. 1995. Beauty is in the adaptations of the beholder: The evolutionary psychology of human female sexual attractiveness. In Abramson, P. R. & Pinkerton, S. D. Sexual nature, sexual culture. Chicago: University of Chicago Press: 80-118.
van Lawick-Goodall, J. 1968b. A preliminary report on expressive movements and communication in the Gombe Stream chimpanzees. In Jay, P. C., ed. Primates. New York: Holt: 313-374. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| machoman wrote: |
| i can't imagine, if i were a father, a man walking into the library, sitting down, opening up a kiddy book . . . |
I learn Korean by reading children's books, and adult books in Korean are too hard for me.
Learning Korean is more important to me than pleasing you.
I translate some of those children's books, run them through my scanner, and read them to my English students.
Teaching my English students is more important to me than pleasing you.
| Quote: |
| . . . then offering to read to a random child. |
Who said anything about reading those books to random children?
I read books to children who approach me and ask me to read to them. |
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Kaypea
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Tomato would be talking publically about reading with children if he were a pedophile.
Still, men, you must be careful. If you want to read to kiddies, it is best to go through an organization, or ask the library if you can volunteer. Places like libraries prefer it that way, I think.
If your friends have kids, offer to read to them, but don't go behind closed doors with them.
I don't think I would ever hire a man as a babysitter or "manny", unless if I were 100% certain that he was safe around my kids. And yes, no matter who it was, I think I would install teddy bear cameras everywhere. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| machoman wrote: |
| it's also something people need to be aware of because it happens more often than you think. |
You're speaking to a group of foreign English teachers who have had to go through a police check because someone got caught in this sort of thing, and you think you're shocking us with news? |
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machoman
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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i think some people on this board are more concerned about defending their egos and/or wanting to start a heated debate out of boredom. why's everyone so defensive.
seriously, i don't try to offend or troll people, there's no use, and it does no good.
tomato, i'm just saying, if you read my post, that the way you wrote your post, sounds a bit creepy.
the way you study korean makes sense, i do that too. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| machoman wrote: |
i would have to say that for a man, seeking out women and seeking out children is very very different. for a man, there's a biological and social imperative to find a mate. there are chemicals at work for men to be attracted to women, it's what drives a man, in many cases.
but for an adult male to want to spend more time with kids then his peers, for me, personally, i find it strange. |
Finding it strange if you like, I've no problem with that. This isn't about people finding something strange. It's about people essentially implying someone is a pedophile just because they are generously willing to spend their time making children happy (and yes, that's what was and what still is being implied). That's socially destructive behavior that has resulted in innocent people getting locked up. It's worth speaking out against.
| machoman wrote: |
| and, why are you so quick to make a heated debate out of everything? |
I like vigorous discussion. If you don't, then don't respond to me. It's that simple. I don't follow you around pestering you about how your posting style is devoid of non-trivial content. Why not do me the same favor and not pester me because I actually enjoy in-depth discussion?
Last edited by Fox on Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry Tomato, it was the way that you worded your post that came across as being creepy, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. And by the by, I worked with a pedophile in China, they're not always as discrete about it as we're led to believe. (And for the record, after a bunch of us reported him to the police they eventually deported him. We had a record in the States too for his shenanigans but the Chinese didn't care really as long as he was 'doing a good job', despite inviting young female students to his home to 'play cards' as was his modus operandi). |
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Capricious1
Joined: 06 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:15 am Post subject: Hmm |
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After reading the first two pages of posts I just wanted to say thanks to all the good ideas on how to get out there and socialize. It was really helpful, I am a person that is known to move every few years at least, sometimes more often, but I make amazing lasting friends everywhere I go, usually at least. This is my first time living in another country however and I have found myself oddly a little shy and hesitant. I tried to talk to some ovious expats and kinda got shut down, when I really wanted to make friends. Thanks everyone for the helpful posts.
As for the bent the thread has taken...i think its all been said. I don't even want to go there  Peace! |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Meeting people here is really easy, you just have to be approachable. That means not looking at the ground when you are walking around and not always listening to your ipod when your out and about. I have meet tons of people and I don't ever specifically try to make friends. I think that might be key is to not act desperate to meet people just let it happen, but to go places where people feel comfortable approaching you. Oh, smiling and making eye contact, but not staring, always helps. |
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