|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
|
 Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
I love it when these debates come up.
So many rumors, whisperings, and virtual water cooler talk
@UrbanMyth
They want to let FTs go as a large percentage leave the country at some point. They don't have this problem with KTs, what's more, they are confident that money spent on KTs will most likely stay in country.
I also disagree that there will be 'plenty' of jobs. Public schools cut even 30% of our jobs, it becomes much more difficult to find work. New teachers are still exploring Korea, and they are a more attractive hire- accepting lower pay and following their schools like lemmings.
@Sojusucks
They won't tell us the truth because they don't like answering questions, so they will feed us BS hoping we are stupid enough to believe it. You know how it is  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
I love it when these debates come up.
So many rumors, whisperings, and virtual water cooler talk
@UrbanMyth
They want to let FTs go as a large percentage leave the country at some point. They don't have this problem with KTs, what's more, they are confident that money spent on KTs will most likely stay in country.
I also disagree that there will be 'plenty' of jobs. Public schools cut even 30% of our jobs, it becomes much more difficult to find work. New teachers are still exploring Korea, and they are a more attractive hire- accepting lower pay and following their schools like lemmings.
@Sojusucks
They won't tell us the truth because they don't like answering questions, so they will feed us BS hoping we are stupid enough to believe it. You know how it is |
nice summary.
they only want to keep the good looking ft's as their mascots.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9OAK5F00&show_article=1
Japan is doing the same thing with their own Japanese teachers.
| Julius wrote: |
I think the government does actually want more NET's.
Problem is that they were forced to cave in to the demands of the KTU. |
The KTU is the semi-illegal official opposition-ish union for teachers. The KTU hardly pressures the MoE. You're looking for the Korean Federation of Teachers Association, AKA Gyochong. Gyochong has more power than KTU in the government.
| Quote: |
| The way I see it going is that Parents will simply send their kids back to the hogwons to get a fix of native. |
More hagweon jobs? Most likely. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| They want to let FTs go as a large percentage leave the country at some point. They don't have this problem with KTs, |
Most FT's leave because of lack of career development options or because the school replaces them with someone who looks younger and prettier.
The fact is there are more than enough foreigners who would stay on in Korea and fill these places if they only improved the conditions.
There are so many foreigners married to koreans who are hunting for decent permanent jobs. If you gave pay rises and better conditions for eg experience, qualifications, korean language ability etc then you'd have FT's for life here. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
I love it when these debates come up.
So many rumors, whisperings, and virtual water cooler talk |
You have to admit that the whole government esl policy has never made much sense.
First the government wanted to vanquish the private hogwon trade.
So they brought FT's into public schools in the hope that parents would quit the academies en masse.
But then they failed to run their english programmes effectively. With a disregard that looks almost deliberate.
Many FT's could probably have radically improved the english system at their schools. But the schools never listen to or consult with the FT on how to improve things.
The failed Gepik experiment could basically be described as a massive cynically wasted opportunity. It could have and should have been so much better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Julius wrote: |
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
I love it when these debates come up.
So many rumors, whisperings, and virtual water cooler talk |
You have to admit that the whole government esl policy has never made much sense.
First the government wanted to vanquish the private hogwon trade.
So they brought FT's into public schools in the hope that parents would quit the academies en masse.
But then they failed to run their english programmes effectively. With a disregard that looks almost deliberate.
Many FT's could probably have radically improved the english system at their schools. But the schools never listen to or consult with the FT on how to improve things.
The failed Gepik experiment could basically be described as a massive cynically wasted opportunity. It could have and should have been so much better. |
I wonder how many schools really never ask their NET's for input. Every lesson I make is one I create on my own. It's all my input. Yes, I follow the lessons in the book, but only as a guide for what topic, grammar point, or sentence pattern to teach. Then I teach it my own way using outside resources as well as mixing some things in from the text that aren't totally worthless.
When I suggested to level our students and split them up by ability during class and then rotate the class around learning stations. My school accepted it.
When I suggested what kind of camps I wanted to run, my school accepted my plan. They gave me a 300,000W budget over the winter for it to that I could use at my discretion. They let me choose what play to do for English Drama club. Then they are letting (and paying me) to direct it.
But I've only worked at one PS. So maybe I'm lucky. I don't feel out of the loop at my school. I'm renewing this week. I guess all I'm saying is that I think a lot more schools than you might think let their NETs have some say in what's going on.
I think you have 3 kinds of schools. Those that let their NETs have a say in whats going on, schools that have a bad teacher/creepy/jerk guy, and schools that have bad administration/undermining coteachers. From the people who I talk to at GEPIK gatherings when not in the ear shot of coordinators most of them seem pretty satisfied with their schools and their roles. So I don't know which kind of school is most common.
I'd like to know some more info on this rumor though. There are tons of rumors flying around. But this rumor seems to crop up every year (just like the no more school on Saturdays thing, they've been planning that for years). The only thing that makes me more worried than usual is the previous hiring freeze they are just coming out of. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
I wonder how many schools really never ask their NET's for input. Every lesson I make is one I create on my own. It's all my input. Yes, I follow the lessons in the book, but only as a guide for what topic, grammar point, or sentence pattern to teach. Then I teach it my own way using outside resources as well as mixing some things in from the text that aren't totally worthless. |
More than you know. Aside from ego problems, there is also the fault of misunderstandings, and laziness. (Both sides are guilty of this)
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| When I suggested to level our students and split them up by ability during class and then rotate the class around learning stations. My school accepted it. |
I have also made a suggestion, however it was not accepted. "Not enough classroom space" was the reason given to me. Could be that, or the fact that someone is afraid of controlling a class by themselves..
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| When I suggested what kind of camps I wanted to run, my school accepted my plan. They gave me a 300,000W budget over the winter for it to that I could use at my discretion. They let me choose what play to do for English Drama club. Then they are letting (and paying me) to direct it. |
My school tries everything they can to do more with a lower budget. I've watched the budget go from a start of 200K to 100, this summer it is 50K, for the same amount of time- 2 weeks.
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| But I've only worked at one PS. So maybe I'm lucky. I don't feel out of the loop at my school. I'm renewing this week. I guess all I'm saying is that I think a lot more schools than you might think let their NETs have some say in what's going on. |
Have you had the same principal/VP?' Same handler? I've seen a 'regime change' under the same principal- the difference is like night and day. My school used to get things done- now its about who looks the busiest.
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| I think you have 3 kinds of schools. Those that let their NETs have a say in whats going on, schools that have a bad teacher/creepy/jerk guy, and schools that have bad administration/undermining coteachers. From the people who I talk to at GEPIK gatherings when not in the ear shot of coordinators most of them seem pretty satisfied with their schools and their roles. So I don't know which kind of school is most common. |
I agree with you on the 3 types of schools bit- however you don't know what situations the NETs are in- especially if you don't see them outside of 1 GEPIK conference every 2 years. You don't know if they were just making nice small talk or if their schools were similar to yours.
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| I'd like to know some more info on this rumor though. There are tons of rumors flying around. But this rumor seems to crop up every year (just like the no more school on Saturdays thing, they've been planning that for years). The only thing that makes me more worried than usual is the previous hiring freeze they are just coming out of. |
Interesting- you mention that you just re-signed this week, that would put you in with the non-hires GEPIK told us had to wait until September. So which is it?
I think your school sounds fantastic and I am happy for you- but if you think every school in GEPIK or even Goyang is equal, you are kidding yourself. I know of two schools that run an English language newspaper and even they aren't done the same- because one principal prefers to embezzle money and the other doesn't. Which newspaper do you think looks more professional? Which do you think is done properly?
@Julius
I believe the reason why the government esl policy is such a joke is because they take it as such. Its just free money to throw around, hire a foreign face and take pictures- "evidence"  . Look at the text- coherent? Made by professional English teachers? Proofread?
Edit: I am really down today. Its too bad because there are such great opportunities for everyone to come out ahead, things just get squashed because of ineptness, greed, and nepotism. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I 've seen a 'regime change' under the same principal- the difference is like night and day. |
that'd be difficult. Only possibility I can imagine is a new vp, and the principal allows him/her to do things his/her way.
other people won't have such power. Especially your "handler", unless you have no relationship at all with your vp and principal or dept head and they're given a complete free reign over you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
I wonder how many schools really never ask their NET's for input. Every lesson I make is one I create on my own. It's all my input. Yes, I follow the lessons in the book, but only as a guide for what topic, grammar point, or sentence pattern to teach. Then I teach it my own way using outside resources as well as mixing some things in from the text that aren't totally worthless. |
More than you know. Aside from ego problems, there is also the fault of misunderstandings, and laziness. (Both sides are guilty of this) |
I won't disagree with you on that. I just think we probably get a bit of a lopsided view on this board where a lot of people get their info from.
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| When I suggested to level our students and split them up by ability during class and then rotate the class around learning stations. My school accepted it. |
I have also made a suggestion, however it was not accepted. "Not enough classroom space" was the reason given to me. Could be that, or the fact that someone is afraid of controlling a class by themselves.. |
It sounds more and more like you belong to that third group of schools I mentioned. Sorry to hear that.
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| When I suggested what kind of camps I wanted to run, my school accepted my plan. They gave me a 300,000W budget over the winter for it to that I could use at my discretion. They let me choose what play to do for English Drama club. Then they are letting (and paying me) to direct it. |
My school tries everything they can to do more with a lower budget. I've watched the budget go from a start of 200K to 100, this summer it is 50K, for the same amount of time- 2 weeks. |
I don't know if you can really blame the school for that. Times are tight for everyone. Not just in Korea but the world over. Maybe them skimping on their camp budget is so they can afford to keep you on next year! Try to look on the bright side! 
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| But I've only worked at one PS. So maybe I'm lucky. I don't feel out of the loop at my school. I'm renewing this week. I guess all I'm saying is that I think a lot more schools than you might think let their NETs have some say in what's going on. |
Have you had the same principal/VP?' Same handler? I've seen a 'regime change' under the same principal- the difference is like night and day. My school used to get things done- now its about who looks the busiest. |
Our principal changed over the winter. This is a good thing because the last one was not as good. The new one is all about giving freedom to teachers to run their own show. Which I really like. The VPs are still the same. They can be pretty hit or miss towards my CTs but are always kind to me. So I consider myself very lucky.
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| I think you have 3 kinds of schools. Those that let their NETs have a say in whats going on, schools that have a bad teacher/creepy/jerk guy, and schools that have bad administration/undermining coteachers. From the people who I talk to at GEPIK gatherings when not in the ear shot of coordinators most of them seem pretty satisfied with their schools and their roles. So I don't know which kind of school is most common. |
I agree with you on the 3 types of schools bit- however you don't know what situations the NETs are in- especially if you don't see them outside of 1 GEPIK conference every 2 years. You don't know if they were just making nice small talk or if their schools were similar to yours. |
Yeah I hear you on that. But I do see a lot of the teachers fairly regularly around my town, at English Cafe meetings, orientation, training, cultural trainings. I probably see them on average about once every 4-6 weeks.
[quote="ThingsComeAround"]
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| I'd like to know some more info on this rumor though. There are tons of rumors flying around. But this rumor seems to crop up every year (just like the no more school on Saturdays thing, they've been planning that for years). The only thing that makes me more worried than usual is the previous hiring freeze they are just coming out of. |
Interesting- you mention that you just re-signed this week, that would put you in with the non-hires GEPIK told us had to wait until September. So which is it?
I think your school sounds fantastic and I am happy for you- but if you think every school in GEPIK or even Goyang is equal, you are kidding yourself. I know of two schools that run an English language newspaper and even they aren't done the same- because one principal prefers to embezzle money and the other doesn't. Which newspaper do you think looks more professional? Which do you think is done properly? [\quote]
My contract is complete at the end of September. The hiring freeze is over in August. So I was able to sign my contract, which will take effect in September, post freeze. I know that not all schools are equal, hence the three types of schools things. I do consider myself fortunate. And I don't think the system is as broken as it is made out to be by all the negative nancys on this board. There are some legit complaints and insightful suggestions that people make too. I just think the reality of the overall situation falls somewhere different than the picture painted on this board.
The new text book and CD-Rom are a heck of a lot better than the last one. I could still do without all the terrible suggested activities at the end of each class, stupid tear out cards (which just wind up all over the floor and hallway after class) and fully scripted lessons (down to student responses! WTF is that?!?! Are the kids supposed to read from the lesson script too? haha). My coteacher hates them equally as much, so we generate a lot of our own content (and admittedly some stuff off waygook!) I can't make those .ppt review games as good as the ones I find on there.
So since this winter we've been running the lessons like this. Part 1 we do whole class instruction. Introduce topics, vocab, basic sentence pattern and play some kind of game. Second lesson we do role playing, reading, and an independent activity. 3rd class we do a rotation lesson (3 leveled groups, rotating around three stations for 12 minutes each 1 with me, 1 with CT, 1 independent. Each station has tiered content. My room is pretty big and even has a little library area off to the side which is where I set up my "minihagwon") The 4th class is whole class instruction and review game. It works really well. It gives enough variety that all the kids get something out of it I think. Even the lower level ones, especially during the rotation class.
I do think my school is better than most and consider myself lucky because of it. But most people I talk to in person like their schools too. But at the same time, the people who really hate their schools/jobs probably could careless about attending GEPIK sanctioned events. So that's why I think the truth exists somewhere between the general consensus on this board and my experience. Which shouldn't be all that bad.
About that rumor, we will just have to wait and see I guess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rainism wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I 've seen a 'regime change' under the same principal- the difference is like night and day. |
that'd be difficult. Only possibility I can imagine is a new vp, and the principal allows him/her to do things his/her way.
other people won't have such power. Especially your "handler", unless you have no relationship at all with your vp and principal or dept head and they're given a complete free reign over you. |
Wow. Clearly you haven't been at my school.
From when I started, I've seen all members of the English team replaced.
My first handler could stand up to the P and she would call him out on misused funds. The second one doesn't, so there is a decreasing budget for English. Also, the second handler can't control the other teachers within her own group. Total chaos. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What I realised. if you don't ask for any money.. they give me a bonus.
| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I 've seen a 'regime change' under the same principal- the difference is like night and day. |
that'd be difficult. Only possibility I can imagine is a new vp, and the principal allows him/her to do things his/her way.
other people won't have such power. Especially your "handler", unless you have no relationship at all with your vp and principal or dept head and they're given a complete free reign over you. |
Wow. Clearly you haven't been at my school.
From when I started, I've seen all members of the English team replaced.
My first handler could stand up to the P and she would call him out on misused funds. The second one doesn't, so there is a decreasing budget for English. Also, the second handler can't control the other teachers within her own group. Total chaos. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
