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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
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| If you have been here for 10 years you are fucked. |
Truer words are rarely spoken on this board.
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| it is very likely that they are here for the long-term and have little or no interest in returning home. |
Which came first, though? Isn't it likely that the 'decision' to stay, far from being freely made, becomes more of an after-the-fact rationalization of the obvious reality that returning to one's native country and having the same lifestyle is impossible? That all that time and effort spent 'educating' Korean children counts for less than nothing in a Western job market?
It's too easy to fall into that trap and convince everyone, especially yourself, that this is really what you want and you are perfectly happy doing it for a career, even when deep down you know that's not true and with an open path you never would have made this choice.
Few people actually want to be teachers [in-the-trenches FT teachers, not professors or researchers or PT tutors or some other kinda-sorta thing]. Even fewer actually want to live as permanent expats [especially in a society as closed and xenophobic as Korea]. Maybe you are both, TUM. How many others do you truly think there are out there? |
I know 10 such people personally (not counting myself). Yes most people prefer living in their own country or would prefer that. No surprise there. I'm simply pointing out that the doom-and-gloom scenarios stated above do not hold true for everyone. I never plan to return to my native country(whether or not I stay in Korea). apart from short trips there. In addition I enjoy teaching and can't really see myself being as happy doing anything else. (I was a teacher in my home country FYI).
And I'd also say that the overall population of people who enjoy being a FT/expat is probably a lot higher on forums like these as opposed to the general population of our home countries. |
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maladict23
Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I know 10 such people personally (not counting myself). Yes most people prefer living in their own country or would prefer that. No surprise there. I'm simply pointing out that the doom-and-gloom scenarios stated above do not hold true for everyone. I never plan to return to my native country(whether or not I stay in Korea). apart from short trips there. In addition I enjoy teaching and can't really see myself being as happy doing anything else. (I was a teacher in my home country FYI).
And I'd also say that the overall population of people who enjoy being a FT/expat is probably a lot higher on forums like these as opposed to the general population of our home countries. |
There is so much BS in that post it's hard to know where to start. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| marsavalanche wrote: |
I don't plan on ever going back home.
But to the people saying we're "f'ed" if we're here 10+ years, I don't necessarily agree with that.
There are people I've seen on these forums that have landed a decent job back in their home country. However KEEP IN MIND these same people didn't just get a BA and a hagwon gig for 8 years. They continued getting an education and credentials (MA, CELTA, etc.) which has allowed them to build a decent resume to take back home. Stop judging because YOU think we're all lazy teachers who hangout at Itaewon every weekend and don't have a plan B in life. |
I've not been here long but a lot of folks make assumptions. Every case is different. Also, there are tons of people back home who have stayed in a dead end job for 10 years as well and get serious and get a good job after they started looking. Who is to say some HR person or hiring manager won't look at 10 years living and working in Korea as a plus. Someone who can adapt more readily than someone who only lived in America? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| maladict23 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I know 10 such people personally (not counting myself). Yes most people prefer living in their own country or would prefer that. No surprise there. I'm simply pointing out that the doom-and-gloom scenarios stated above do not hold true for everyone. I never plan to return to my native country(whether or not I stay in Korea). apart from short trips there. In addition I enjoy teaching and can't really see myself being as happy doing anything else. (I was a teacher in my home country FYI).
And I'd also say that the overall population of people who enjoy being a FT/expat is probably a lot higher on forums like these as opposed to the general population of our home countries. |
There is so much BS in that post it's hard to know where to start. |
Sorry, but everything in that post is absolutely true. Guess that old saying about truth hurts is accurate after all. |
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maladict23
Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| maladict23 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I know 10 such people personally (not counting myself). Yes most people prefer living in their own country or would prefer that. No surprise there. I'm simply pointing out that the doom-and-gloom scenarios stated above do not hold true for everyone. I never plan to return to my native country(whether or not I stay in Korea). apart from short trips there. In addition I enjoy teaching and can't really see myself being as happy doing anything else. (I was a teacher in my home country FYI).
And I'd also say that the overall population of people who enjoy being a FT/expat is probably a lot higher on forums like these as opposed to the general population of our home countries. |
There is so much BS in that post it's hard to know where to start. |
Sorry, but everything in that post is absolutely true. Guess that old saying about truth hurts is accurate after all. |
You were a qualified teacher in your home country? With a straight face you are trying to pass that off on the forum?
You are saying you know TEN teachers who have lived here for 10 years and do it by choice and have no intention of going back to their home country? Pretty amazing considering you say all your contracts are in places with no other foreign teachers (your words).
Next you will be telling the forum you can speak Korean. It's just so laughable. |
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TECO
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I've personally worked with several lawyers teaching EFL in Korea, Japan and Taiwan. I've also worked with former Police officers, a paramedic, a physician, a lot of former military, certified high school teachers and bona fide professors from Canada / U.S. / U.K. who hold PhD degrees.
I've seen all kinds of people take jobs in TEFL with non-Education, TESOL related degrees and backgrounds.
There's a popular myth that gets propagated on this forum and that's that many people who have TEFL jobs here couldn't succeed or make it back home. I don't believe that. I've worked with a lot of people who were successful back home and, for various reasons, wanted to do something different.
Also, depending on one's academic background and how lucky one is, lucrative jobs with great working conditions can be found. I'd argue that TEFL is just as good a job as any other back home for earning and saving - maybe even better.
Another pet peeve of mine is the old addage, "You don't go into TEFL to make money!" - well, that could apply to 95% of the jobs back home too! |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| maladict23 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| maladict23 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I know 10 such people personally (not counting myself). Yes most people prefer living in their own country or would prefer that. No surprise there. I'm simply pointing out that the doom-and-gloom scenarios stated above do not hold true for everyone. I never plan to return to my native country(whether or not I stay in Korea). apart from short trips there. In addition I enjoy teaching and can't really see myself being as happy doing anything else. (I was a teacher in my home country FYI).
And I'd also say that the overall population of people who enjoy being a FT/expat is probably a lot higher on forums like these as opposed to the general population of our home countries. |
There is so much BS in that post it's hard to know where to start. |
Sorry, but everything in that post is absolutely true. Guess that old saying about truth hurts is accurate after all. |
You were a qualified teacher in your home country? With a straight face you are trying to pass that off on the forum?
You are saying you know TEN teachers who have lived here for 10 years and do it by choice and have no intention of going back to their home country? Pretty amazing considering you say all your contracts are in places with no other foreign teachers (your words).
Next you will be telling the forum you can speak Korean. It's just so laughable. |
Yes I was. So were other people here.
It is possible to meet other teachers OUTSIDE of work. Yes if you stay in a little clique that you form at work and never venture outside without them then I can see it might be difficult to grasp this concept.
I never said all of them have been here for ten years. That is you putting words into my mouth.
And I've always said for quite some time that I can speak survival Korean. No I'm not fluent
Lastly please do not project your failures on me. Because you can not conceive of yourself being able to do or experience certain things does not mean that other people are incapable as you apparently insist on presenting yourself to be. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I was going to stay out of this but...
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| Who is to say some HR person or hiring manager won't look at 10 years living and working in Korea as a plus. Someone who can adapt more readily than someone who only lived in America? |
Please, please tell me you don't actually believe this. Really. Let's see, in the 'home 7' countries all of us come from, how's the job market looking? How long has it looked like that? Going on 4 years now? And in this horrible environment, where in my country there are still 5 unemployed people for every opening averaged over all sectors and regions [although plenty of places are worse than that], you want to say with a straight face that a resume showing 10 years doing ESL in Korea will come off as 'a plus?'
If you should ever actually return home please give this a try and let us all know how that works out for you.
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| many people who have TEFL jobs here couldn't succeed or make it back home. |
This is absolutely true. Don't kid yourself. To the extent it's not completely accurate it's only a function of how many 22-year-old kids there are here right out of college who are just playing the old 'better than living with my parents' game and trying to talk themselves into further avoiding the real job market by attending graduate school--I was one of those foolish people once.
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| lucrative jobs with great working conditions can be found. I'd argue that TEFL is just as good a job as any other back home for earning and saving - maybe even better. |
No kidding. I have one of them. It's the single reason I can make myself get up every morning and keep at it.
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| "You don't go into TEFL to make money!" |
I sure as hell did. |
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maladict23
Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And I've always said for quite some time that I can speak survival Korean. No I'm not fluent
Lastly please do not project your failures on me. Because you can not conceive of yourself being able to do or experience certain things does not mean that other people are incapable as you apparently insist on presenting yourself to be. |
Survival Korean? Pmsl. So what you mean is after 10 years here you can say one word commands? Admit it, you have not even taken the time to learn how to read Korean. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| maladict23 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
And I've always said for quite some time that I can speak survival Korean. No I'm not fluent
Lastly please do not project your failures on me. Because you can not conceive of yourself being able to do or experience certain things does not mean that other people are incapable as you apparently insist on presenting yourself to be. |
Survival Korean? Pmsl. So what you mean is after 10 years here you can say one word commands? Admit it, you have not even taken the time to learn how to read Korean. |
No what I mean is that I can carry on simple conversations in Korean. Not discuss rocket science though...that's a bit out of my league.
What about you? I suppose you are fluent? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
I was going to stay out of this but...
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| Who is to say some HR person or hiring manager won't look at 10 years living and working in Korea as a plus. Someone who can adapt more readily than someone who only lived in America? |
Please, please tell me you don't actually believe this. Really. Let's see, in the 'home 7' countries all of us come from, how's the job market looking? How long has it looked like that? Going on 4 years now? And in this horrible environment, where in my country there are still 5 unemployed people for every opening averaged over all sectors and regions [although plenty of places are worse than that], you want to say with a straight face that a resume showing 10 years doing ESL in Korea will come off as 'a plus?'
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If you've been working as opposed to being unemployed for a couple of years...I should think most people would regard that as a plus. |
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maladict23
Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
No what I mean is that I can carry on simple conversations in Korean. Not discuss rocket science though...that's a bit out of my league.
What about you? I suppose you are fluent? |
Discussing the weather would be out of your league. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| maladict23 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
No what I mean is that I can carry on simple conversations in Korean. Not discuss rocket science though...that's a bit out of my league.
What about you? I suppose you are fluent? |
Discussing the weather would be out of your league. |
Since you don't even know me and have never met me, you obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about. But do go on with your speculations..it's quite amusing to watch you flail about madly hoping to say something that's accurate. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think the point was made earlier that 10 years in entry level PS/hagwon jobs is a dead end. However, as with any industry as long as you are upgrading your quals and using your experience to land better jobs then you'll be fine.
Plus living abroad is fun.
I can�t say I am particularly envious of my peers working as mortgage brokers in Lemington Spa or town planners for Southampton County Council.
Although it�s a little disheartening to hear that even after 10 years of living in Korea your fluency is still basic. I'm not having a go at TUM I am just a little worried about my own attempts at language acquisition.
What about your receptive skills are you able to get the gist of newspaper articles and news broadcasts? |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| If you've been working as opposed to being unemployed for a couple of years...I should think most people would regard that as a plus. |
Missing the point. If your field is education or some variant thereof, then fine. Working here at least doesn't hurt. But if it isn't, such as for myself, then working here is only valuable for the money. Whatever I'm doing with my students has nothing whatsoever to do with my real profession. There is virtually nothing from this experience that will help me find work doing what I actually like and am trained to do. The longer I am away from my field the more out of touch with it I become and the more difficult it is for me to compete with new, freshly trained graduates.
There are thousands of people just like me in Korea teaching ESL now. Just because you aren't one of them and many do not speak of the truth of their circumstances does not negate this reality. Just because the fact that ESL is very frequently a last-ditch option for people who have run out of options elsewhere makes you uncomfortable doesn't mean it's not true.
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| as with any industry as long as you are upgrading your quals and using your experience to land better jobs then you'll be fine. |
Only if you want to keep landing 'better' ESL jobs. What about getting out of this? What difference does your supposedly better ESL job make to someone who isn't in ESL and doesn't know a damn thing about all the little nuances?
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| Plus living abroad is fun. |
Sometimes, at least. I wouldn't mind it, if I was doing my real job. But ESL is not and never will be that for me, and for many many many others. |
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