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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
One thing I'd say is that foreigners gawk at and talk about other foreigners (though perhaps not as mockingly) as much as any Koreans if they are in an area without many foreigners.
But yeah, people here will comment on anything and anyone. We'll comment on ajosshi in a crazy suit or kid in capris wearing pink and they comment on us.
But most humans do that. You think you have it bad? Imagine that you're an attractive woman. |
In my experience this is not true at all. Koreans in my auditory periphery are not talking about other Koreans who are in front of them. They are talking about someone they crossed paths with recently. In my experience they never mock each other's appearance in front of them either. It's when the subject leaves that the whispers start.
And attractive women here LOOOOVE getting attention. They expect it. They want to know they have something. They toss their hair, speak louder and use more body language when they want attention. I see it daily. I notice them glancing out of the corner of their eyes to see if their mating calls are working. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The rest of the world does not roll the same way either. Heck, Asia, Africa, South America, North America, Europe all roll differently....
The North american way of rolling often is not viewed very positively by Europeans for example. So pray tell, which is wrong or right, better or worse?
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Yeah good point. I thought the same after I hit the submit button. Obviously there's no correct answer. Just kind of rambling...
When I say roll differently, I mostly mean they don't mix well or play well with others.Those others being foreigners of every other race, creed or whatever. Every place has its share of quirks, and I think many would admit this place is "quirkier" than most places as far as how the locals react to foreigners. For some, it's like coming to a different planet. Obviously they weren't called the hermit kingdom for nothing.
I'm certainly not hating on the place, or I wouldn't be here, but Koreans certainly have their own unique way of reacting to foreigners, and it generally does not go down well when there is all manner of giggling, pointing, whispering, chest puffing (vocal and non) and overt talking behind their backs, etc. for no reason other than they are foreign. Also, life is not a permanent pissing contest, but it seems to be here sometimes. I would say these bizarre childish reactions happen here more than most countries and I've heard this impression from so many people, so I;m sure I'm not just pulling it out of nowhere. I guess we are back on track now somewhat? |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
I've had a uni student walk directly behind me near a bus stop, mimicking the stride of an ape-like body builder (I weight train). I caught him and as I began to question him, he actually ran away laughing. A month ago, when I was running home in the rain with 3 grocery bags, I ran passed a middle school girl who yelled out the all too familiar, patronizing, whiny, 'Helllloo'. In a hurry to get dry, I ignored her, and then heard her shout me a "Shipsecki".
Last month an a girl on the subway, who was quiet until she saw me, loudly start mimicking rapper cliches "Yo man", "Wazzup" as I waited to get off the train. |
Most of the locals are great, but this is the kind of crap that sticks with you. Most would know this behavior would get you beat down anywhere else, but some here somehow think it's Ok and funny. And they would NEVER do that to another Korean. The brashness, lack of deference, and double standard is amazing. How did they know you weren't a businessman, diplomat or something? It's not just confined to scorn for English teachers; this is how many foreigners are viewed by some locals by default. Almost seems like a younger generation sort of behavior too, and it may be getting more common. Sometimes I think we've overstayed our welcome here; it's like, "We've learned enough English, now get out!" And maybe it's the inevitable result of having grown up around many lax, overly casual foreign teachers who they were able to disrespect in class in their childhood and now they are testing their luck out on the streets too.
Sure, it's a few bad apples behaving this way, but when everyone has increasing experience with the bad apples, you've got to wonder what's up. I know we aren't welcome here by some, but the mocking stuff is so over the top childish.
You may weight train but I wonder if you have a mild demeanor or look to you that they feel they can mock you like that. Maybe you're black(?) due to the "wassup/yo man" comment? If so, why not introduce the locals to the "angry black man" stereotype and freak the living s**t out of them next time? Just a thought. If not, maybe freak em out anyway with a good glare... |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:44 am Post subject: |
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No, I'm white. I always dress cleanly, neatly, and fashion forward. I walk fast, with a look of indifference that has been honed by the local social environment over the years. I figure the curse of having learned Korean to such a degree can also provide me with an instantaneous reply, so I take advantage to the fullest. I actually enjoy messing with people in return when I hear things directed at me. It does freak the crap out of them, especially since my pronunciation is (apparently) very natural.
I find that as Pastor Yoon said, the locals are actually looking for my reaction. They WANT to push my buttons, and I am far from alone on this.
Many times, walking down the street I hear people as they are walking right behind me or approaching me, speaking random Korean. When they realize there is an English speaker in earshot, there is suddenly an injection of bastardized English "Oh Leally?, Oh woow. Oh my gad. Itsuh beduh."
But as I said before, this type of thing happens exponentially more here in Daegu than an other place I've spent time in.
On the other side of the coin, when I go out with my wife, I speak Korean to waiters, and shop clerks. Yet, despite a very competent level of fluency, they almost always choose to continue the conversation I started by speaking to my Korean wife. WTF? Hey, Stevie Wonder, I'm over here.
IMO, It all comes down to the fact that foreigners are not their equals in their eyes, yet we still possess something that makes them feel insecure. Seems to me that we are a series of varying points of interest used to spice up their bland lives, and prop up a personality suffering from a lack of self esteem.
Last edited by crescent on Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Agreed. 100%. |
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Tamada
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Chet Wautlands wrote: |
PGHB is on the money here. I used to think people were talking about me all the time. I was worried they were.
"Are they talking about my bald head? Why do they care that I'm bald?" "No," replies my girlfriend. "They were talking about something completely different." |
You really think that your gf would EVER tell you when her people are saying bad things about you?
God good man, you're as green as cabbage.
Last edited by Tamada on Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The rest of the world does not roll the same way either. Heck, Asia, Africa, South America, North America, Europe all roll differently....
The North american way of rolling often is not viewed very positively by Europeans for example. So pray tell, which is wrong or right, better or worse?
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Yeah good point. I thought the same after I hit the submit button. Obviously there's no correct answer. Just kind of rambling...
When I say roll differently, I mostly mean they don't mix well or play well with others.Those others being foreigners of every other race, creed or whatever. Every place has its share of quirks, and I think many would admit this place is "quirkier" than most places as far as how the locals react to foreigners. For some, it's like coming to a different planet. Obviously they weren't called the hermit kingdom for nothing.
I'm certainly not hating on the place, or I wouldn't be here, but Koreans certainly have their own unique way of reacting to foreigners, and it generally does not go down well when there is all manner of giggling, pointing, whispering, chest puffing (vocal and non) and overt talking behind their backs, etc. for no reason other than they are foreign. Also, life is not a permanent pissing contest, but it seems to be here sometimes. I would say these bizarre childish reactions happen here more than most countries and I've heard this impression from so many people, so I;m sure I'm not just pulling it out of nowhere. I guess we are back on track now somewhat? |
Ever been to rural China? Some other Asian nations?
Perhaps a few arab or African nations?
Heck visit France and see how they react to foreigners (the non white kind) settling there or worse immigrating there....chat up the Algerians who settled in France generations ago and ask them how welcome they feel in France 
You want giggling and pointing with the added pleasure of locals taking your picture as you walk around...well try some other asian nations
Its all in degrees right?
Perception of foreigners\immigrants is an interesting topic however. Korea does have varying degrees of xenophobia (that is quite different from racism mind you) because (as you hinted at) it was a closed country for a large chunk of its history. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
The rest of the world does not roll the same way either. Heck, Asia, Africa, South America, North America, Europe all roll differently....
The North american way of rolling often is not viewed very positively by Europeans for example. So pray tell, which is wrong or right, better or worse?
|
Yeah good point. I thought the same after I hit the submit button. Obviously there's no correct answer. Just kind of rambling...
When I say roll differently, I mostly mean they don't mix well or play well with others.Those others being foreigners of every other race, creed or whatever. Every place has its share of quirks, and I think many would admit this place is "quirkier" than most places as far as how the locals react to foreigners. For some, it's like coming to a different planet. Obviously they weren't called the hermit kingdom for nothing.
I'm certainly not hating on the place, or I wouldn't be here, but Koreans certainly have their own unique way of reacting to foreigners, and it generally does not go down well when there is all manner of giggling, pointing, whispering, chest puffing (vocal and non) and overt talking behind their backs, etc. for no reason other than they are foreign. Also, life is not a permanent pissing contest, but it seems to be here sometimes. I would say these bizarre childish reactions happen here more than most countries and I've heard this impression from so many people, so I;m sure I'm not just pulling it out of nowhere. I guess we are back on track now somewhat? |
Ever been to rural China? Some other Asian nations?
Perhaps a few arab or African nations?
Heck visit France and see how they react to foreigners (the non white kind) settling there or worse immigrating there....chat up the Algerians who settled in France generations ago and ask them how welcome they feel in France
You want giggling and pointing with the added pleasure of locals taking your picture as you walk around...well try some other asian nations
Its all in degrees right?
Perception of foreigners\immigrants is an interesting topic however. Korea does have varying degrees of xenophobia (that is quite different from racism mind you) because (as you hinted at) it was a closed country for a large chunk of its history. |
Yes, yes, and yes, I think I mentioned I'd been around Asia a bit. You're right about rural China. I still think (and many others I know do too) despite it's recent wealth Korea is an odd bird (not necessarily better or worse - unless we are talking about Japan) among Asian nations regarding how the locals act towards foreigners. And I've been around a lot of different places too, although comparing middle East and African nations to Korea isn't quite fair. Obviously we know where foreigners fare better and that's why we are here.
But I think my main points still stand (and it's only opinion anyway) - that Korea for foreigners has its share of annoying childish quirks and a lot of it stems from some kind of insecurity and almost culturally hardwired xenophobia. But of course it isn't that simple and we know there are many reasons for it.
Also xenophobia and racism are different but NOT necessarily exclusive from each other; they can and sometimes do go hand in hand. To think that they wouldn't when you've got a very racially homogenous nation such as this one seems a bit naive to me so I'll have to disagree on that point.
And as far as being a closed country for most of its history, it often seems that this is used as a justification rather than and explanation of behavior towards foreigners. Just saying.
But, you take the good with the bad, and it's mostly good here. The homogenous/xenophobic stuff is part blessing part curse. But these are interesting points to me too since sometimes I think about settling down here for a good chunk of time (because my job and girlfriend both rock), and then I come to my senses and think NO WAY in hell could I stay here very long as a foreigner in this fun but socially stifled, xenophobic place , and of course, most of the locals wouldn't want it any other way. I tend to think as a long term foreigner here you will generally not be respected -based not on what you've done but who you are. Those kinds of things, feeling respected and wanting to be treated as a normal human, are important to some people. I guess some can overlook them easier than others.
Finally, regarding respect, it seems the very old generation here has loads of it for foreigners. Oddly, I've even been thanked by some senior citizens and told Korea owes much to the foreign countries that helped it get to where it is today, but that attitude is pretty much dying out as that generation fades away and now that they've got some money and protection, the narrative seems to be that they did it all themselves, and are the best, screw the rest (but keep some of your troops here in case we need you again someday). Woah, probably that's overstated and I'm way off topic but on the bright side I'm on my third beer before I go out... |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Keep going. It's a breath of fresh air on this website. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Koreans in my auditory periphery are not talking about other Koreans who are in front of them. In my experience they never mock each other's appearance in front of them either. |
So you've never seen Koreans refer to other Koreans as a pig or tease them about their weight or some princess comment on another girls looks or an ajumma say something blunt?
Seriously?
I mean come on, on another thread we'll hear about how Koreans are rude and nasty in general and always talking about appearances. Then we have this?
Bias to fit an agenda possibly?
| Quote: |
| And attractive women here LOOOOVE getting attention. They expect it. They want to know they have something. They toss their hair, speak louder and use more body language when they want attention. I see it daily. I notice them glancing out of the corner of their eyes to see if their mating calls are working. |
So wait, Koreans don't comment on appearances and whatnot and always talk about someone they've seen previously, but attractive Korean women love attention they get for being pretty?
I'm a little confused because these statements appear to be in complete contradiction with each other.
Many Koreans ignore each other and are focused on someone else. Many Koreans also will comment and say something. Probably depends on their mood and the setting. Same with Koreans about foreigners. Same with foreigners about Koreans. Same with foreigners about foreigners.
I don't find anything irregular about that here or worldwide. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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No, I have NEVER heard a Korean speak negatively to another unfamiliar Korean who is within earshot, unless said unfamiliar Korean had done something directly to that person to offend them, such as step on their foot, or knock over a package.
Never, in the few years I have had enough language ability. I have no agenda, because at the beginning of this thread I stated that I have heard Koreans speak even more brutally about other Koreans. It's just that the subject can't hear them at the time, or had actually committed some faux pas.
Just the same, I have never heard a pretty women get direct audible comments on their good looks that border on slimy. They get gawks, and stares, and show the signs of wanting that kind of attention. That, I have noticed. I think you invented any contradiction in this.
What I am trying to say is; Koreans will talk about foreigners and it seems like they want to be heard. Yet, Koreans talking about each other do it more conspicuously. Comments can be just as nasty.
Last edited by crescent on Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SeoulShakin
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| myenglishisno wrote: |
| Chris.Quigley wrote: |
I was in a Korean restaurant in Vancouver today...
"These days many foreigners like Korean food." |
There is even a Korean restaurant (along with a few Korean grocers and churches) in Halifax now.
비빔밥 costs $8, 김치 costs $2.50 for a small dish and they don't use 고추장 in the 비빔밥... they use BBQ sauce
I asked and the waitress relayed that 고추장 was too spicy to serve in Canada. I hope they catch on to the fact that it isn't! |
There are actually 9 Korean restaurants in Halifax now, not one.  Makes it much easier to get that Korean food fix! |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Ok pastor we get it you dislike/hate Korean food.
No worries, tastes are quite personal. Be aware however that many people like/love many Korean dishes. Just that way these things work bud! |
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Tamada
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:05 am Post subject: |
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^
Korean food does mostly suck.....it's definitely right at the bottom of the list of 5 countries that I've lived in before.  |
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