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Civil Defense Drill 2 pm Thursday August 18th
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assumed the purpose of pulling over during an air raid drill (or the real deal) would be to open up the roads for military, police, firefighters, ambulance and etc. These vehicles who would be out in large numbers and not able to wait in traffic. Bombs hurt people and start fires. And if people panic and take to the roads simultaneously it would be gridlock.

A moving target is harder to hit then a stationary one, but are civilian vehicles targets at all? I hope not!!

Just a thought.
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Chokse



Joined: 22 May 2009

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You and I are never going to agree. I can never agree with you because you continue to vacillate. You say we should stay in the car to protect ourselves from bombs and chemical weapons, but then you admit a car would not necessarily protect us from bombs or chemical weapons. You try to hit from every angle and miss from all.

So, let's agree to disagree. You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning, while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.

By the way, my wife will be in our second car, on her way to Busan as well.
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aq8knyus



Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Chokse

As others have said I don�t fancy your chances of making it very far with military and police vehicles taking over the roads.

Also I would imagine one of the Norks first aims would be to hamper communication around Seoul to isolate the city. How are you going to get to Busan if all the roads, railways and bridges are attacked?

I am sure a man of your many talents could find a way but it�s not going to be a simple drive down the highway with the Creedence Clearwater Revival blasting.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chokse wrote:
You and I are never going to agree. I can never agree with you because you continue to vacillate. You say we should stay in the car to protect ourselves from bombs and chemical weapons, but then you admit a car would not necessarily protect us from bombs or chemical weapons. You try to hit from every angle and miss from all.


How is this so hard for you to understand.

Because being in a car is better than running around outside, does not make it safe. It makes it safer.

Do you know the difference between the words safe and safer?

That's not vacillating. You are safer in the car. Are you going to be 100% safe? Of course not. But that doesn't mean its safe to drive around like a lunatic either.

Quote:
So, let's agree to disagree. You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning


Really? The idea that vehicles should pull over and clear the roads for emergency vehicles during a crisis is Han superiority thinking? Really?

What's clear here is you have no idea what you are talking about, are to insecure to admit when you are wrong, and you're counter proposal is one that involves freaking out and making everything worse.

You Chokse, are that guy who when the enemy attacks, freaks out, starts running and shooting his gun in a 360 degree circle and ends up killing someone with friendly fire.

When a crisis happens you need to keep your cool and behave in a trained, cooperative, and rational manner.

Quote:
while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.


Actually it would be great in a medium scale terrorist attack for clearing the roads for emergency vehicles to reach the scene. You don't need people to go to bomb shelters, you don't them to drive to Busan, you need them to GET OFF THE ROAD.

Quote:
I assumed the purpose of pulling over during an air raid drill (or the real deal) would be to open up the roads for military, police, firefighters, ambulance and etc. These vehicles who would be out in large numbers and not able to wait in traffic. Bombs hurt people and start fires. And if people panic and take to the roads simultaneously it would be gridlock.

A moving target is harder to hit then a stationary one, but are civilian vehicles targets at all? I hope not!!

Just a thought.


Exactly. You thought before you typed. Unlike a certain other person on this thread.

Instead he typed first, and is now trying to argue backwards. And he says we should listen to him for advice when that's how his thought process works.
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Chokse



Joined: 22 May 2009

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You and I are never going to agree. I can never agree with you because you continue to vacillate. You say we should stay in the car to protect ourselves from bombs and chemical weapons, but then you admit a car would not necessarily protect us from bombs or chemical weapons. You try to hit from every angle and miss from all.

So, let's agree to disagree. You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning, while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.

By the way, my wife will be in our second car, on her way to Busan as well.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chokse wrote:
You and I are never going to agree. I can never agree with you because you continue to vacillate. You say we should stay in the car to protect ourselves from bombs and chemical weapons, but then you admit a car would not necessarily protect us from bombs or chemical weapons. You try to hit from every angle and miss from all.


No one was vacillating.

I said a car might make you safer, not that it made you safe.

Learn how to read. Do you know the difference between safe and safer?

A car might make you safer ina variety of circumstances, and odds are you would probably be safer staying stationary in the car than A)Driving around like a madman or B) Spending 20 minutes running around in the open trying to find the bomb shelter.

Now is staying in a car guaranteed to make you safe? Absolutely not. But it is an added layer of protection and certainly better than running around in the open or driving like a maniac through town.

Quote:
You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning


Yes, because the notion of cars clearing the roads for emergency vehicles is clearly an example of "Han superiority thinking". Rolling Eyes

EVERY COUNTRY HAS SIRENS ON THEIR EMERGENCY VEHICLES. Why? So in the event of an emergency you can GET OUT OF THE WAY.

Do you even stop to think before you type?

So now you are claiming that the idea of pulling to the side of the road and clearing it for emergency vehicles in time of war/disaster is a bad idea full of "Han thinking". Epic Fail.

Quote:
while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.


And your plan of freaking out and driving like a madman to Busan will? Right.

Why don't you share this brilliant stratagem of yours with some emergency responders, military personnel, and civil defense experts. I'm sure they'd see things just the same way as you.
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Chokse



Joined: 22 May 2009

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure how long it will take until you get it. Some people are slow... I understand. You were probably in the special needs classes in school. For the last time:

You and I are never going to agree. I can never agree with you because you continue to vacillate. You say we should stay in the car to protect ourselves from bombs and chemical weapons, but then you admit a car would not necessarily protect us from bombs or chemical weapons. You try to hit from every angle and miss from all.

So, let's agree to disagree. You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning, while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.

By the way, my wife will be in our second car, on her way to Busan as well.
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greatunknown



Joined: 04 Feb 2010

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol at chokse. I think he's messing with you guys.,

If the NorK's attacked we'd need to temporarily free up the roads for military and emergency responders. But that doesn't mean we can abandon our vehicles on city streets. There would be some sort of attempt to move or evacuate civilians in an orderly fashion. An "every man for himself! GTFO!" style panic could be disastrous.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be getting the eff out ASAP. And I'd probably not wait in my car for permission to do so. But I can certainly understand why the military would ask us to do just that.

Having to pull over and wait 15 minutes just for a drill really is a nuisance though.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greatunknown wrote:
lol at chokse. I think he's messing with you guys.,

If the NorK's attacked we'd need to temporarily free up the roads for military and emergency responders. But that doesn't mean we can abandon our vehicles on city streets. There would be some sort of attempt to move or evacuate civilians in an orderly fashion. An "every man for himself! GTFO!" style panic could be disastrous.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be getting the eff out ASAP. And I'd probably not wait in my car for permission to do so. But I can certainly understand why the military would ask us to do just that.

Having to pull over and wait 15 minutes just for a drill really is a nuisance though.


Nah, he started out in good faith.

Now the weight of knowledge, logic, and explanation is going up against him and he refuses to admit he was wrong. He spoke first and tried to give evidence to his position second, and like so many who do things in such a manner, he has now found himself backed up.

Among his many errors-
1)Confusing a civil defense drill with an air raid drill
2)Asserted that a moving target is better than a stationary one, unaware of the fact that a random car on a road is not a target and that the bombardments have a random quality to them.
3)Unfamiliarity with the way people can be killed/wounded via artillery and explosions.
4)Unfamiliarity with the fact that cars are designed to resist kinetic impacts
5)Believing that the idea of cars pulling over to the side of the road is a Korean one
6)Believing that the best thing for 20 million people to do in a sudden attack is to drive like maniacs for Busan.
7)Confusing the phrase "a degree of protection" with "no protection"
8)Confusing the words "safe" and "safer"

Basically when Chokse first saw the thread he posted how stupid it was because it was a Korean plan, which therefore made it stupid. He didn't bother to look carefully into the situation, it was Korean and therefore stupid, that's all he needed to think.

Well stupid is as stupid does.

So I put the question out there- Who is the stupid one?
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Chokse



Joined: 22 May 2009

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be you. Stupid enough to die for the Koreans.

The drill serves no purpose because it does nothing to protect civilian lives. Back home, when tornado, hurricane, earthquake, etc. drills are done, the purpose is to show people what to do in order to protect themselves during that type of disaster. Here in Korea, they show you what to do to benefit the country at the risk of your own life. Yeah, right.

Making us sit in our cars, parked on the street, is in no way helping us protect ourselves. It would make far more sense if they had drivers exit their cars and seek shelter in the nearest underground facility.

And, since you have proven once again that you are indeed a special needs student, I'll have to repeat this again (though this time I'll pare it down to the important part so you don't get confused):

______________________

So, let's agree to disagree. You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning, while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.
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Zyzyfer



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish someone would tell me I'm vacillating. Crying or Very sad
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fermentation



Joined: 22 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say moving out of the way and keeping the roads clear so military forces can advance to stop the Norks is the safer than everybody in Seoul trying to get out at the outbreak of war, clogging up traffic and eventually delaying the establishment of defences by friendly forces. But I also say the drills are pointless because the latter is exactly what's going to happen in the outbreak of war. Our hope lies on the Air Force and US 2nd Infantry Division in my opinion.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chokse wrote:
That would be you. Stupid enough to die for the Koreans.

The drill serves no purpose because it does nothing to protect civilian lives. Back home, when tornado, hurricane, earthquake, etc. drills are done, the purpose is to show people what to do in order to protect themselves during that type of disaster. Here in Korea, they show you what to do to benefit the country at the risk of your own life. Yeah, right.

Making us sit in our cars, parked on the street, is in no way helping us protect ourselves. It would make far more sense if they had drivers exit their cars and seek shelter in the nearest underground facility.

And, since you have proven once again that you are indeed a special needs student, I'll have to repeat this again (though this time I'll pare it down to the important part so you don't get confused):

______________________

So, let's agree to disagree. You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning, while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.


Nope, you're assertiong that pulling over to the side of the road and clearing the way for emergency vehicles is "Han superiority thinking". Wrong, wrong wrong. And the fact that you can't admit that is pathetic.

Again, you'd rather have the people exit their cars and run around for 10 minutes trying to find a bomb shelter? Bomb shelters aren't on every block. And during those 10 minutes you are exposed, far more than you would be inside a vehicle.

Do you care to address the 8 points in which you were decisively wrong?

You didn't even understand the English language difference between the words safe and safer. That is in the record.

But go ahead, even fermentation, as unapologist as they come by, is yes, agreeing with you in terms of it may not be effective in practice, but disagreeing with you in theory. In theory, it is the right thing to do. Therefore, if it is correct in theory, it IS what you should practice.

In event of emergency YOU CLEAR THE ROADS.

That isn't Han thinking. That is standard practice anywhere around the world. And you refuse to admit that out of stubbornness.

Go ahead Chokse. Keep on denying that you should clear the roads. Guess who looks more sensible and guess who looks more like a dolt...
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Airborne9



Joined: 01 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chokse wrote:


So, let's agree to disagree. You think the drill is yet another example of Han superiority in rational thinking/planning, while I see it as a nuisance and something that most certainly will not prepare the population for an attack of any kind, chemical or otherwise.


Just like "Duck and cover" Americans spent so much time preparing for was really going to prepare the population for a nuclear attack.

So its only Koreans who practice useless drills or does getting under your school desk really protect children from a nuclear blast?

Another example of American superiority in rational thinking.
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jvalmer



Joined: 06 Jun 2003

PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the event of an actual sustained NK attack into Seoul, most people will be heading south. Most likely all major south bound roads will be clogged. North bound roads will probably be pretty free for the military to use. And MP's will be rounding up any 16-25 year old looking male to give a gun and uniform to. These drills are just there to reassure citizens and give the military some sense of practice.

I highly doubt the military, or government, actually thinks people will act orderly enough to clear roads for military vehicles. Most likely it's going to be, get out of your car or you're going to be crushed in it when the tank drives over it.

Also, note that a lot of those bridges north of Seoul are built to become barriers in the event of an attack. So if you're north of Seoul, major roads that intersect bridges will probably be a no go.
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