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morrisonhotel
Joined: 18 Jul 2009
Location: Gyeonggi-do
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 Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Unposter wrote: |
T
The few good posts I saw is that making friends in Korea is a lot like making friends any place else. It really helps if you have something in common.
Then, there is all those well, I live in the countryside and I've never experienced racism falacy. This is one of the worst kind of posts. These type of posters expect everyone to have had their experience, otherwise they deny other people's experience.
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I said that about making friends. In fact I believe I was the first in the thread to bring that up.
I also said that I live in the countryside and I've never experienced racism.
But I would like you to show where I expected everyone else to have my experience or denied anyone else's. Or for that matter where anyone else did.
I asked for an example of such racism (which is still to be shown). Mr. Steelrails also pointed out why such racism would be unlikely there.
Personally I need more than vague, unfounded, unsupported accusations to make a charge of racism stick. |
I don't often agree with TUM's opinions, but he is spot on in this one. Now, undoubtedly, people will have different experiences as Korea is a fairly large country. It's just ridiculous to generalize the countryside, a la Cohiba's stupid rule, as more backwards and racist than the city. My experience is that I've seen more racism and outright stupidity towards foreigners (and not just to white westerners) in Seoul (and in other cities). I've never had anyone say anything negative to me and I've never had anyone try to act hostile towards me in the countryside. If anything, I've experienced fantastic hospitality from the (mostly) very elderly people that live around me (you know, the people that have grown up and lived most of their lives in an area where there probably hasn't ever been any foreigners until very recently). Perhaps it's sojusucks's experiences that folks in the countryside are taught to be more racist than people in the cities, but he would do better to present his arguments as his experience rather than to try to cast all or the majority of people in the Korean countryside as racist and mindless. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| joelove wrote: |
| Someone once described them as a "closed shop" though I guess that could be true for many people in many countries |
Exactly.
gotta love the way westerners expect the world to welcome them like kings just because they're white and are from an (apparently) more advanced country.
This ain't thailand or Japan. They don't swoon at the sight of whiteness. They will judge for who you are as a person first.
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Japanese swoon at your whiteness? Haven't they had some of the longest exposure to whiteness in Asia? I would think they'd be more use to seeing us than Koreans. (Although the US Recession has created a temporary surge of foriegners here. Koreans are probably getting too use to us. Just wait another year or two and there'll be less of us here.) |
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redaxe
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
I disagree, Koreans by and large do not make great friends. I have made a few here and there but many just scope you out to see if you have something they need, and if you don't, they forget about you. I've seen this time and time again in Korea.
I agree that making true friends in Korea takes time but even then, they often call only when they need something. |
And they will also call or e-mail you out of the blue asking for a favor (usually English-related) when you haven't heard from them in several months or even years.
Now, when a Korean friend or acquaintance who I've lost touch with suddenly contacts me out of the blue, I simply ignore them because I know they're only calling because they want something from me.
I got pretty tired of feeling "used" by people in Korea. I felt like there was no real friendship or genuine goodwill between people, everyone was just competing with each other and using each other to try to get ahead in life and become the object of others' envy. So many of people's actions seemed to be motivated primarily by jealousy and envy. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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"Sojusucks" is hyper sensitive about any kind of racism directed against himself/nets. HE is the one posting any article remotley negative about NETS on this forum.
He doesn't have a leg to stand on with his present accusation that countryside folk are more racist.
Sojusucks? More like thispostersucks. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| redaxe wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
I disagree, Koreans by and large do not make great friends. I have made a few here and there but many just scope you out to see if you have something they need, and if you don't, they forget about you. I've seen this time and time again in Korea.
I agree that making true friends in Korea takes time but even then, they often call only when they need something. |
And they will also call or e-mail you out of the blue asking for a favor (usually English-related) when you haven't heard from them in several months or even years.
Now, when a Korean friend or acquaintance who I've lost touch with suddenly contacts me out of the blue, I simply ignore them because I know they're only calling because they want something from me.
I got pretty tired of feeling "used" by people in Korea. I felt like there was no real friendship or genuine goodwill between people, everyone was just competing with each other and using each other to try to get ahead in life and become the object of others' envy. So many of people's actions seemed to be motivated primarily by jealousy and envy. |
The worst part is, they seem to have no shame when asking for a favor from an expat they haven't contacted in ages. I don't ignore, I tell them what a @#$RR$#@!!!! I think of them then hang up. In a country where restraint is usually practiced, I put such users in their place.
Of course, the Koreans rationalize it by saying, "Well, I was busy and it was coincidence that I needed a favor and wanted to contact this guy at the same time..."  |
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:40 am Post subject: |
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It is kind of funny because my students often talk about how much they would like to make friends with people from other countries but that the people they have met have either been (all their words) racist, arrogant or just used them for help while in Korea - no joke.
I told them the same thing that has been said on this thread - learn something about the popular culture in other cultures and you are more likely to have something to talk about (and the reverse is true for all of you - learn something about Korean popular culture and you will have more to talk about, regardless of the language you are speaking).
I also think it is kind of funny that some people on this thread have complained that Koreans have "used" them (I assume) for learning English. Yet, these people (I assume) are English teachers. You would think it would be a match made in heavon - people who want to teach English meeting up with someone who wants to learn it but noooooooooo...
And, to all of you who are picking on poor sojusucks (except for TUM) argue with sojusucks ideas not the person. And, just saying, well, I have never experienced racism in the countryside is not any better than some of your complaints that sojusucks makes about there is racism in the countryside becuase neither one of you have proof - you just have your personal, relative experience (I am not necessarily defending sojusucks accusations of racism - I am just saying that you are denying his statement by saying well I never experienced it. That is denying someone elses experience by your own experience.)
Now, please go on with your discussions and flame wars on stereotypes. |
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tatertot
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Unposter wrote: |
It is kind of funny because my students often talk about how much they would like to make friends with people from other countries but that the people they have met have either been (all their words) racist, arrogant or just used them for help while in Korea - no joke.
I told them the same thing that has been said on this thread - learn something about the popular culture in other cultures and you are more likely to have something to talk about (and the reverse is true for all of you - learn something about Korean popular culture and you will have more to talk about, regardless of the language you are speaking).
I also think it is kind of funny that some people on this thread have complained that Koreans have "used" them (I assume) for learning English. Yet, these people (I assume) are English teachers. You would think it would be a match made in heavon - people who want to teach English meeting up with someone who wants to learn it but noooooooooo...
And, to all of you who are picking on poor sojusucks (except for TUM) argue with sojusucks ideas not the person. And, just saying, well, I have never experienced racism in the countryside is not any better than some of your complaints that sojusucks makes about there is racism in the countryside becuase neither one of you have proof - you just have your personal, relative experience (I am not necessarily defending sojusucks accusations of racism - I am just saying that you are denying his statement by saying well I never experienced it. That is denying someone elses experience by your own experience.)
Now, please go on with your discussions and flame wars on stereotypes. |
Do you really think that most English teachers want to spend their non-work time giving English lessons? You're an English teacher, too, right? Do you want to spend your free time teaching English? I know that when I get done with my last class of the day, I'm not eagerly searching for someone else to teach. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:40 am Post subject: |
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I still can't get over the "Korean friends are fake/using them".
Dude this is a thread with a bunch of GUYS. 95% of our relationships with women our age are fake. We're just trying to get in their pants. Unless you truly are interested in whatever it is they're babbling about.
Of course I'm exaggerating, but how many of us are truly "friends" with that girl we're trying to hook up with?
How many of us out there are being nice to that K-dude because he always knows some ladies.
Uh huh.
And I for one say, well better that then just sitting at home... |
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TellyRules986
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The worst part is, they seem to have no shame when asking for a favor from an expat they haven't contacted in ages. I don't ignore, I tell them what a @#$RR$#@!!!! I think of them then hang up. In a country where restraint is usually practiced, I put such users in their place. |
I was thinking the exact same thing. They really have NO shame in doing that either. There are some good Korean friends out there, but so many of these people are really something else.
| Unposter wrote: |
I also think it is kind of funny that some people on this thread have complained that Koreans have "used" them (I assume) for learning English. Yet, these people (I assume) are English teachers. You would think it would be a match made in heavon - people who want to teach English meeting up with someone who wants to learn it but noooooooooo...
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As long as they are paying me money then it is a match made in heaven. If not... then I prefer to have friends that already speak English. You will have absolutely zero things in common and they will still insist on being your "friend." And they'll completely deny that it's because they want to learn English. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: |
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easiest way to deal with Korean life is NOT to deal with it.
that's the benefit of being a foreigner. You don't have to. There isn't the incredible societal pressure there would be on you if you were Korean.
Gyopos get the short end of the stick on such matters.
If you came here looking to make lifelong friends, you're a fool. Those are typically made earlier in life, usually during school. (that said, I'm certain I've made at least one "friend" in Korea who will be a friend for a long long time, long after I've gone and left). The people you will "befriend" in Korea will likely have their own agendas, as will you (don't deny it). Treat it for what it is, and perhaps surprisingly it will turn into something else. Mutually satisfactory companionship is good enough for me, whether male or female. If that involves me helping then with English, no real skin off my back, but you should feel 'rewarded' somehow, by new experiences, or new introductions, or whatever makes you happy.
my best friend I befriended when I was 14 years old, because his family and sisters were close to a girl I had a huge crush on. I even admitted this to him back then after our friendship became deep, now we laugh about it. Before I got to know him under this false guise, I didn't have a very high opinion of him (which tells you something about ignorant opinions too)
on a side note maybe I'm getting old but it strikes me that the 20 something NET's I meet here are always looking to hang out and "do things", usually involving drinking. Maybe I'm not just older but simply strange, but I was never desperate for companionship and company the Koreans (and young NET's) seem to be.
but then, I never quite understood the original "concept" of Facebook.
(hey, I'll "share" with all my friends that I am NOW taking a crap!!!!)
who gives a rat's behind about your daily life? or mine? (if you do, you're not my friend, but you have a problem)
tell me a story when it's truly interesting. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I still can't get over the "Korean friends are fake/using them".
Dude this is a thread with a bunch of GUYS. 95% of our relationships with women our age are fake. We're just trying to get in their pants. Unless you truly are interested in whatever it is they're babbling about.
Of course I'm exaggerating, but how many of us are truly "friends" with that girl we're trying to hook up with?
How many of us out there are being nice to that K-dude because he always knows some ladies.
.. |
With the women thing, that's pretty accurate in some cases, but you're also projecting your own motivations/agendas onto others. If YOU are trying to get into everyone's pants, that doesn't mean everyone else is automatically doing the same. What is true is that everyone has SOME kind of agenda whether they know it or not.
But for general relationships, those agendas can also be companionship, friendship, popularity, networking, etc. which are usually a two way street, but the complaints we see here is that we often encounter locals with a blatant agenda resembling something like "How can I use this person to solely benefit ME in some way ?" ...whether through trickery or incomplete information, or even masked in phrases like "I want to be your gooood friend" or "please understand (giggle)"...and THAT kind of thing does not exactly inspire trust or make anyone excited to make friends in that circumstance. And it happens often enough here (VERY often in fact) that people can see it coming in advance and their BS meter tends to go off the charts quite easily - and then they get jaded.
It doesn't bother me so much anymore because I expect it, I'm used to it and just roll with it, but I can see how it could drive others crazy. It's not unique to Korea, but it sure happens here A LOT.
When you make a good friend here, you'll know it because they'll be the one who doesn't constantly ask random favors or showboat you around like a display piece. It could take some time but good people can be found here and anywhere. |
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lalartu
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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there is a reason why Korea remained the only isolated kingdom with the society unchanged for 1000s of years until 1910 intervention by Japan.
It's the culture
Korean isolationism is the reason why they kicked out the French, the Russians and even the Chinese and the Mongolians before that. They just...don't like foreigners:P
deal with it |
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itistime
Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
but then, I never quite understood the original "concept" of Facebook.
(hey, I'll "share" with all my friends that I am NOW taking a crap!!!!)
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The "concept" of Facebook now is to use competitive intelligence to collect data about unsuspecting minions for marketing and govt profiling (some not so minionish that compromise knowingly), all with the 'guise' and convenience of keeping you connected to your 7,322 friends.
Could have been the original concept too. How's that for realistic pessimism? |
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DejaVu
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Location: Your dreams
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I still can't get over the "Korean friends are fake/using them".
Dude this is a thread with a bunch of GUYS. 95% of our relationships with women our age are fake. We're just trying to get in their pants. Unless you truly are interested in whatever it is they're babbling about.
Of course I'm exaggerating, but how many of us are truly "friends" with that girl we're trying to hook up with?
How many of us out there are being nice to that K-dude because he always knows some ladies.
Uh huh.
And I for one say, well better that then just sitting at home... |
If sitting at home or thinking in this manner are my only choices, I'll gladly choose the former. What a waste of time, money, and life to "befriend" women that you hate just to get some sex. The more you do this, the less you'll find the women worth finding.
However, it is quite depressing when I realize that everyone is just using everyone. Perhaps I am using my close Korean friend (for the sake of uniqueness, sociological/psychological observations, emotional stimuli) and she is using me as well (her deep psychological need to attach to a Westerner of any kind, her feeling that she needs to find a husband, her need for attention from a male, etc.).
Who am I to say that "using someone for close emotional attachments and better human understandings" is a better use of life than "using someone for sex".
So, just ignore my post I guess. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| DejaVu wrote: |
However, it is quite depressing when I realize that everyone is just using everyone. Perhaps I am using my close Korean friend (for the sake of uniqueness, sociological/psychological observations, emotional stimuli) and she is using me as well (her deep psychological need to attach to a Westerner of any kind, her feeling that she needs to find a husband, her need for attention from a male, etc.).
Who am I to say that "using someone for close emotional attachments and better human understandings" is a better use of life than "using someone for sex".
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The two are often closely linked, it's just that few people are willing to admit they are at least in part "using someone for sex." Why? It sounds shallow, and most don't want to be perceived as that. In reality, it's not SO shallow, it's a basic human need. |
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