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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Where you work and for whom you work makes a hell of a difference in your attitude. I was going to leave Korea for elsewhere but I turned it down and am now working in a job that gives me the kind of teaching I wanted.
Some teachers are simply too good to get stuck in the rut of teaching spoilt children (of any class - it's not always about privilege but a general lack of teaching basic respect for others unless they are your senior or in a higher position in other ways) who often don't give a damn and are encouraged to not take anything foreign in terms of people seriously. Transfer to the kind of job you did before coming to Korea (for me it's now teaching motivated, intelligent adults) and you will find your attitude changes in a fundamental sense.
Some Korean norms still can frustrate me and I am not a fan of the superficiality and facade of superiority expressed in the Korean way. I find the reactionary attitudes here dismal and annoying. However, that is not the sum total of Korea. If you live in certain places or are stuck in certain jobs with certain kinds of people, it is not hard to apply that in a blanket sense to the country and society as a whole. That is a mistake.
I am fond of my country which is the UK. I despise those expat Brits who slag off the UK as 'mongrelised' and supposedly lacking in charm, culture and decent food.
Mostly the mongrel slur reflects their discomfort with the growing numbers of biracial and multiracial Brits, something I am proud of. I love the way my country's football team has players whose faces show that people of very different races/ethnicities can find common ground. Countryside rambles, visits to old castles, trips to the Highlands in Scotland etc give far better experiences than the concrete mishmashes and lack of greenery in Korea.
The slagging off of the food ignores the wonderful multicultural food choices and the yes, traditional English recipes which great grandmothers kept and passed down. British achievements in all important areas of human endeavour and progress speak for themselves and we still have a proud record of the rule of law despite our flaws. Korea cannot match our positives.
Yet Korea has a lot going for it and an amazingly convenient lifestyle and access to entertainment, shopping and resources. The OP's mindset is common but not necessarily the best to have as the negatives crowd out the real positives of Korean life. |
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Died By Bear

Joined: 13 Jul 2010 Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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One simple rule: Always try to improve upon your situation. If you can't improve the life in Korea, go home and improve it. There is always room for improvement.  |
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tran.huongthu
Joined: 23 May 2011
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I've said it before, and I'll say it again- Korea does not exist to make you happy. |
It tries very hard to not make anyone happy. Korea pats you on the back before immediately kicking you swiftly in the balls.
Now, it's nice to get a pat on the back but there's only so many times that one can take a kick in the balls. |
Except the kick to the balls is coming from behind as well. |
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Setaro
Joined: 08 Aug 2010
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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I am fond of my country which is the UK. I despise those expat Brits who slag off the UK as 'mongrelised' and supposedly lacking in charm, culture and decent food.
Mostly the mongrel slur reflects their discomfort with the growing numbers of biracial and multiracial Brits, something I am proud of. I love the way my country's football team has players whose faces show that people of very different races/ethnicities can find common ground. |
As a Brit (who slags off England constantly), I totally agree. I've met several Brits in Korea who said they left England because of 'all the foreigners stealing British jobs/too many foreigners in general'. After laughing in their faces at their hypocrisy, I kindly tell them to please never go back to England; it'll be a better place without them.
I don't like England because I don't like English cultural habits, which mostly revolve around drinking and football, neither of which interest me in the slightest. In England I get stigmatised for not drinking or liking football, yet here no one gives two shits.
I'd probably go back to England if we had even more Asian/Oriental/African/European immigration. In Nottingham, about the only place I feel safe when walking around at night is the Asian part of the city. |
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crescent

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: yes.
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| I've said it before, and I'll say it again- Korea does not exist to make you happy. |
Was the OP assuming such, or are you just lonely ? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:09 am Post subject: |
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I don't like England because I don't like English cultural habits, which mostly revolve around drinking and football, neither of which interest me in the slightest. In England I get stigmatised for not drinking or liking football, yet here no one gives two shits.
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What you mean is, the people you hung around with/were forced into contact with in the UK were into drinking and football and the people you hang around with in Korea aren't. Generally both countries have a strong drinking culture but there are also plenty of people around who like different things. I've heard of people stigmatised so much for not drinking in Korea, they've been forced out of their jobs. If you were married with kids and living in the UK doing a middle class type job, seriously how often do you think you would be stigmatised for not liking football or drinking? Sure if you work in a warehouse or are still at university but otherwise, come on. |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011 Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Setaro wrote: |
| As a Brit (who slags off England constantly), I totally agree. I've met several Brits in Korea who said they left England because of 'all the foreigners |
I left the UK to avoid the british themselves, not the foreigners.
Brits have some great qualities, sure, but its the arrogance and default aggressiveness that I don't miss.
If I was to put my finger on what I don't like about the UK it basically amounts to...."a lack of joy". |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| KatanaSlash87 wrote: |
| Rutherford wrote: |
Honestly, if you're the kind of person who still writes long posts about why you had a bad time in Korea a year after you left, your personality might have had something to do with it.
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Wrong assumption. I haven't even been on this board since I left Korea. I don't go writing threads hating on Korea all the time. One reason I did this was because I thought of Dave's the other day and realized I hadn't been on it in a year, not even thought about it, but how much of a crutch it was for me in Korea. The other reason was this was basically just a one year retrospective for me because I realized one year ago how unhappy I was and I was reflecting on how much better my life is and decided to write about my experience. I don't think it was my personality. I'm a very open person to new ideas, people, cultures, etc... if you asked any of my close friends about me. I guess I just got the short end of the stick when it came to my hagwon.
And maybe you guys are right: I shouldn't let my hagwon be completely reflective of all Korean culture and be all encompassing like that. But then again, my story is not that uncommon. And I think this can be construed as Korea needing to have better protection for foreigners and stop treating them as so expendable.
And another wrong assumption is that I only hung out with waygooks. Yes, most of my friends were, but two of my good friends were two young Korean guys from Seoul who opened a bar in Busan and my group of friends and I were at their bar constantly. They would have entire going away parties at the bar when some of us left. They had house parties at their apartments for us all the time. They were great guys. Really open, really caring. Another of my really good friends was a Korean girl who had also been fired from my school. For no reason. They simply didn't like her. And she was in a rut for months because of it.
So please stop assuming that just because I don't like the nation of Korea means that I don't like Korean people, I didn't absorb the culture and befriend the natives and I didn't try. Things aren't that simple. And in return I'll admit that I shouldn't be so harsh on Korea as an entirety.
And CaptainCorea: Sorry I'm wordy. I'm not in real life. I tend to ramble on forums too much. When I'm more serious about what I'm working on and edit myself my writing is much better. |
Good to know you ventured beyond the wayguk circle. Still, your ONE year at ONE Hakwon should not be translated into a BROAD cultural analysis of Korea or into any sort of large sweeping conclusion right?
That was probably not yout intent anyway. Still, with perspective I am sure you realize that living for ONE YEAR in a country does not leave you with any deep understanding of the place....just saying.
Good luck to you with whatever you are doing now anyway  |
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Setaro
Joined: 08 Aug 2010
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| ZIFA wrote: |
| Setaro wrote: |
| As a Brit (who slags off England constantly), I totally agree. I've met several Brits in Korea who said they left England because of 'all the foreigners |
I left the UK to avoid the british themselves, not the foreigners.
Brits have some great qualities, sure, but its the arrogance and default aggressiveness that I don't miss.
If I was to put my finger on what I don't like about the UK it basically amounts to...."a lack of joy". |
Haha yeah, Koreans/Yanks/Canadians/South Africans etc all ask me why I seem to avoid the British teachers here. I always answer "I left England to avoid the English, why would I come all the way to Korea to hang around with other English people?"
Yeah I'm a hater, guess I was born in the wrong country. I'll always prefer Korea, a country in which I can go out for a coffee in a city center at 11pm and not get attacked by mass groups of drunken, hyper-aggressive twats stumbling from one pub/club to the next.
Another thing, Korea has an incredibly high level of general education. Sure, it's intense and stressful and draining as hell, but I'd still take the Korean Education system over the UK's one, a system which leads to half of final year students failing to pass High School (by the UK government's standards) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11597488
You would not believe the general level of ignorance amongst the general population in the UK. Coupled with the arrogance it's unbearable. By the way, all these comparisons with Korea/UK/our home countries should be qualified with a statement: Life as a foreigner in Korea will in no way resemble that of a native. Unless your fluent in Korean or married to a Korean, you're probably only skimming the surface of Korean culture. Given how much they overwork themselves, I'm sure I'd hate Korea if I was actually Korean. But as a foreigner I'm left alone, no one bothers me and I'm left to my own devices.
And Korea is safe; that's Korea's greatest cultural attribute. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Setaro wrote: |
| Korea is safe; that's Korea's greatest cultural attribute. |
Pretty much every recruiting website has the "Korea is safe" line. And many forum posters go on and on about how the West is a dangerous cesspool. But that's not true. If you have enough money, there are plenty of safe places in England, the United States, and any other Western country. It is the poorest neighborhoods of cities that are dangerous. But no one is forcing you to go there, so it should be a non-issue.
Violent crime rates in Korea vs. the U.S.
http://ataglance.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/violent-crime/ |
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Ribena
Joined: 07 Apr 2011 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Setaro wrote: |
| Korea is safe; that's Korea's greatest cultural attribute. |
Pretty much every recruiting website has the "Korea is safe" line. And many forum posters go on and on about how the West is a dangerous cesspool. But that's not true. If you have enough money, there are plenty of safe places in England, the United States, and any other Western country. It is the poorest neighborhoods of cities that are dangerous. But no one is forcing you to go there, so it should be a non-issue.
Violent crime rates in Korea vs. the U.S.
http://ataglance.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/violent-crime/ |
Unless they are in London and they can't afford to live in a nice area which are all really expensive. So unless you are earning alot of money, living with alot of people or have wangled a council house you might be forced to live in a dodgy area. I've luckly only lived in "nice" areas of London but that due to luck more than anything and sharing with others but I've worked in areas I wouldn't stay in after dark.
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| Another thing, Korea has an incredibly high level of general education. Sure, it's intense and stressful and draining as hell, but I'd still take the Korean Education system over the UK's one, a system which leads to half of final year students failing to pass High School (by the UK government's standards) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11597488 |
It's not just the education system thats to blame for this. Its the culture alot of the kids are growing up where education isn't valued and the family has generations of living on benefits. No motivation for the students at all. I've always thought that some kids would benefit from being held back a year but that never seems to be done in the UK. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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The UK is great if you can afford to live in a nice, safe area like Richmond or Kingston Upon Thames - places where you can don't have to worry about being robbed on the way home from work. However, the vast majority of people can't afford it and never will (see the Gini index).
There is a list of reasons as long as my arm why I am done with the UK, but back on topic; Korea is no paradise that's for sure, and I can imagine living outside of Seoul can get a little boring but so much of the experience depends on the company you keep. Meeting the right people can make it so much better. I had a crappy job, depressing little shoebox 'apartment' and I was living in a boring little place outside of Seoul. Luckily, I met some great people who I am still in contact with now. They really helped me through it. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| The UK is great if you can afford to live in a nice, safe area like Richmond or Kingston Upon Thames - places where you can don't have to worry about being robbed on the way home from work. However, the vast majority of people can't afford it and never will |
You lot have been watching too much Crimewatch UK without waiting for the bit at the end. Remember violent crime is still very rare in the UK. The chances are you will get burgled at least once in your life in the UK it's true but I've had my flat burgled once in Korea too. By a Korean guy. Yes it costs a lot of money to live in a nice safe area in the UK, that's why I'm working my arse off here so I can go back and do that one day. It's a pretty sad state of affairs just giving up on your own country (which you think is great) because you don't think you'll ever raise the cash to live there properly. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| shifter2009 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
The farm analogy works well. Also what Mr. Steelrails said. Korea does not exist to make you happy. That falls directly on you.
In the end no one is forcing you to stay here. |
No, the analogy does not work well. You are comparing migrant farmers from poorer less developed countries to college educated people who have come from the most developed nations in the world to a lesser or similarly developed nation. It's apples and oranges but it fits your apologist view that most of us teachers come here and develop no connection with Korea and don't speak the language so we have no basis to complain. I also would like to take issue with your notion that no one can post anything positive about Korea without being shouted down. There are is a small army of apologists who come running to Korea's aid the moment you even criticize it a little. (dunkin' dougnuts thread?) Now, I'd say I actually agree with you guys 75% of the time but the idea that you are some put upon minority on this board is laughable. |
No I'm comparing the ATTITUDE of said migrant farmers to the ATTITUDE of said college educated people. So yes the analogy works well in that regard.
Besides which being college educated and coming from the most developed nations in the world does not automatically make their opinions right or accurate or even tolerant. You can hear plenty of opinions on these forums that don't sound any more enlightened/literate than said migrant farmers.
And yes most teachers don't develop a connection or speak the language. Most come here for 1-2 years and then leave. There may be a small army of so called "apologists" (I can think of three, myself, Patrick and Steelrails) but there is certainly a bigger army of whiners.
Also I never said or implied we were a put upon minority...that idea is totally in your head not mine. |
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Setaro
Joined: 08 Aug 2010
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Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The UK is great if you can afford to live in a nice, safe area like Richmond or Kingston Upon Thames - places where you can don't have to worry about being robbed on the way home from work. However, the vast majority of people can't afford it and never will |
You lot have been watching too much Crimewatch UK without waiting for the bit at the end. Remember violent crime is still very rare in the UK. The chances are you will get burgled at least once in your life in the UK it's true but I've had my flat burgled once in Korea too. By a Korean guy. Yes it costs a lot of money to live in a nice safe area in the UK, that's why I'm working my arse off here so I can go back and do that one day. It's a pretty sad state of affairs just giving up on your own country (which you think is great) because you don't think you'll ever raise the cash to live there properly. |
I have no nationalistic tendencies what so ever, so I don't really consider the UK "my own country". I don't feel any sort of attachment to the country or its people. I spent a year teaching in Italy, and the culture was so much more varied and related to my tastes. I felt more at home there than I ever did in my hometown. And like you say, it costs a lot of money to live in a nice safe area in the UK. Even if I had the cash, those areas would be filled with reactionary Daily Mail reading Middle Class anyway, who aren't people I want to be near.
For the money it would take to live in a nice area in the UK, I can live like a king in Korea, happy in my shoebox apartment (so easy to clean!), and go to the poorest, most downtrodden neighbourhoods and not have to worry about my safety.
One last thing, I was unemployed for a year or so in my early 20s. The Job Centre sent me on a weeklong training course to 'get back to work'. The course was filled with about 20 young guys who'd never had a job. The instructor asked everyone 1 by 1 what job they'd like to do. I heard painter/DIY guy/shop worker/mechanic etc. When I said "Teacher', all the other guys laughed. That's why I'd never go back to England. Zero culture of respect, unless it's respect gained through aggression and violence down at the local pub. |
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