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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: |
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It's as absurd as going in to work when very ill.
You seem to be having trouble grasping the fact that, while we are in a different culture, we are not slaves and can call in when we are sick. If someone doesn't abuse the sick-day part of their contract, there should be no issue.
I'll leave you to your ramblings. There's no arguing with a brick wall.
EDIT for typo
Last edited by NYC_Gal 2.0 on Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| I've been to school a few times with a bad cold but if I had flu there's not a cat in hell's chance I'd go in. They can't physically make me, and it's not in their interests to fire me anyway. They're not going to fill the vacancy very quickly and they're pretty eager for an FT to stay for more than a year (for once). If I was fired I'd be gutted but I wouldn't regret my decision |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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You are distorting the issue and going to the absurd to avoid adapting to a cultural practice.
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I'll leave you to your ramblings. There's no arguing with a brick wall.
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You describe yourself and many others on this board. The question is, why can't you go in to work....Oh I forgot, your western and you do not like to work. You want to be pampered and spoiled. |
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bbud656
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I did an afterschool cooking class that required me to handle and prepare food for about 50 kids and they went nuts when I tried to use a sick day. This is straight public school contract as well, not through some company. I had 11 sick days in my contract. I got threatened with firing and with my severance being withheld. I even filed a complaint about all this with the POE coordinator after it happened a second time (which was really ridiculous because I wasnt going to be missing any classes) and not much happened. Actually, it just backfired on me and I still am out money from the school and kissed my letter of recommendation goodbye for standing up for myself. They didnt even consider it unsafe that I might give first graders the flu or whatever. |
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calendar
Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| bbud656 wrote: |
| I did an afterschool cooking class that required me to handle and prepare food for about 50 kids and they went nuts when I tried to use a sick day. This is straight public school contract as well, not through some company. I had 11 sick days in my contract. I got threatened with firing and with my severance being with held. I even filed a complaint about all this with the POE coordinator after it happened a second time and not much happened. In fact, it just backfired on me and I still am out money from the school and didnt get a letter of recommendation. They didnt even consider it unsafe that I might give first graders the flu or whatever. |
You all act like the western way is the supreme way and that all nations of the world must bow to that ideal. It isn't & the world doesn't. You have moved to a different culture with a different set of standards and way of doing things. You cannot compare the two and say the non-western way is wrong. They are both human standards and one is not greater than the other.
Is it that hard to don a mask and plastic gloves to protect the students? Will it kill you to adapt to a new way of thinking? We are not talking about moral dangers here, they are not asking you to kill someone. Sometimes you need to compromise, but if you do not don't blame the Korean people for being rigid in their response to you. |
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bbud656
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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You all act like the western way is the supreme way and that all nations of the world must bow to that ideal. It isn't & the world doesn't. You have moved to a different culture with a different set of standards and way of doing things. You cannot compare the two and say the non-western way is wrong. They are both human standards and one is not greater than the other.
Is it that hard to don a mask and plastic gloves to protect the students? Will it kill you to adapt to a new way of thinking? We are not talking about moral dangers here, they are not asking you to kill someone. Sometimes you need to compromise, but if you do not don't blame the Korean people for being rigid in their response to you. |
The getting the kids sick was just an observation, I wouldnt deny doing it for their sake, I just thought it was dumb. The real issue is telling us one thing (you can take a sick day) and then not following through with it, or in my case opening threatening me like a child. Ive had good experiences and terrible experiences with Koreans in the education system. People complain that foreigners are taking advantage of this education boom here and are under qualified, immature, etc. Well it works both ways, there are a ton of Koreans here that jumped into this boom that have no business being here. If they dont want to give us sick days, say so. Hagwons do it. You get like 1 or 2 and you better be on your death bed. But the PS here offer this great package and you take less money in exchange for the benefits, then turn around and say, you cant really have them, that was just to entice you here. |
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WadRUG'naDoo
Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| bbud656 wrote: |
| I did an afterschool cooking class that required me to handle and prepare food for about 50 kids and they went nuts when I tried to use a sick day. This is straight public school contract as well, not through some company. I had 11 sick days in my contract. I got threatened with firing and with my severance being with held. I even filed a complaint about all this with the POE coordinator after it happened a second time and not much happened. In fact, it just backfired on me and I still am out money from the school and didnt get a letter of recommendation. They didnt even consider it unsafe that I might give first graders the flu or whatever. |
You all act like the western way is the supreme way and that all nations of the world must bow to that ideal. It isn't & the world doesn't. You have moved to a different culture with a different set of standards and way of doing things. You cannot compare the two and say the non-western way is wrong. They are both human standards and one is not greater than the other.
Is it that hard to don a mask and plastic gloves to protect the students? Will it kill you to adapt to a new way of thinking? We are not talking about moral dangers here, they are not asking you to kill someone. Sometimes you need to compromise, but if you do not don't blame the Korean people for being rigid in their response to you. |
Now that's what I'm talking about! Like if you have diarrhea, you should wear diapers and duck tape them at the edges OR have a motorized tube contraption attached to your anus that flows out the window. Make sure you have such things already purchased and ready just in case. Like a boy scout, be prepared. It's only the responsible thing to do. |
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brickabrack
Joined: 17 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Calendar.
You're allowed to feel the way you do, maybe because that is how they tell you how you should feel. Whatevs. I know that this is MO for Koreans, maybe why they think robots will work in educating their future working citizens.
Granted, there are many immature, knuckleheads that come here to earn money and drift through life within the K ed system. That doesn't mean there are not responsible, REAL people here.
If you are not a schlep, and your coworkers will know if you are....
coming into work hungover, haggled, unkempt, late, etc. are all some minor examples.
If you're not a tool, and they know you are an upstanding individual that does not abuse the system, there is no reason for them not to let you use your sick days.
I've used 1 in two years. They know I get 11 each year. They know that I'm early for work, prepared for class and go above and beyond what they expect. They scratch my back, I scratch theirs.
So, I go into work and report that I've got this explosive diarrhea that would exclude me to my desk, face-down and the bathroom for most of the day. Is it beneficial to the students that I leave in the middle of class all day, destroy the bathroom and alienate (not self-imposed) myself, resulting in a very unproductive day? Where's the logic?
They said I should go home after I told them that I will.
There is a reason that Koreans are always sick. The work space is unsanitary and they continue to pass germs amongst each other on a very consistent basis. So, maybe the problem is health education. The students and teachers alike sneeze, cough and don't wash their hands ALL THE TIME. Another topic.
They would be 100% more productive and effective in the workplace if this fact changed and some of them actually took a day or two to get well in the comfort of their own abodes.
After lectures (tactful) to students and teachers by myself, they are much more aware of how to stay healthier. I make the workplace more productive, so I'm going to stay home if I'm shl+tinG my brains out.
Don't you agree? |
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valhor
Joined: 19 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| WadRUG'naDoo wrote: |
| calendar wrote: |
| bbud656 wrote: |
| I did an afterschool cooking class that required me to handle and prepare food for about 50 kids and they went nuts when I tried to use a sick day. This is straight public school contract as well, not through some company. I had 11 sick days in my contract. I got threatened with firing and with my severance being with held. I even filed a complaint about all this with the POE coordinator after it happened a second time and not much happened. In fact, it just backfired on me and I still am out money from the school and didnt get a letter of recommendation. They didnt even consider it unsafe that I might give first graders the flu or whatever. |
You all act like the western way is the supreme way and that all nations of the world must bow to that ideal. It isn't & the world doesn't. You have moved to a different culture with a different set of standards and way of doing things. You cannot compare the two and say the non-western way is wrong. They are both human standards and one is not greater than the other.
Is it that hard to don a mask and plastic gloves to protect the students? Will it kill you to adapt to a new way of thinking? We are not talking about moral dangers here, they are not asking you to kill someone. Sometimes you need to compromise, but if you do not don't blame the Korean people for being rigid in their response to you. |
Now that's what I'm talking about! Like if you have diarrhea, you should wear diapers and duck tape them at the edges OR have a motorized tube contraption attached to your anus that flows out the window. Make sure you have such things already purchased and ready just in case. Like a boy scout, be prepared. It's only the responsible thing to do. |
LMAO Wadrug, hilarious! Calendar, you seem like such a dick. All the guy was saying is that he was attempting to account for the sick days that were stated in his contract and wanted to use them appropriately. Didn't seem to be abusing anything or making a mockery of the Korean system compared to the "All supreme" Western one or whatever the hell you said. Lol. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| bbud656 wrote: |
| I did an afterschool cooking class that required me to handle and prepare food for about 50 kids and they went nuts when I tried to use a sick day. This is straight public school contract as well, not through some company. I had 11 sick days in my contract. I got threatened with firing and with my severance being with held. I even filed a complaint about all this with the POE coordinator after it happened a second time and not much happened. In fact, it just backfired on me and I still am out money from the school and didnt get a letter of recommendation. They didnt even consider it unsafe that I might give first graders the flu or whatever. |
You all act like the western way is the supreme way and that all nations of the world must bow to that ideal. It isn't & the world doesn't. You have moved to a different culture with a different set of standards and way of doing things. You cannot compare the two and say the non-western way is wrong. They are both human standards and one is not greater than the other.
Is it that hard to don a mask and plastic gloves to protect the students? Will it kill you to adapt to a new way of thinking? We are not talking about moral dangers here, they are not asking you to kill someone. Sometimes you need to compromise, but if you do not don't blame the Korean people for being rigid in their response to you. |
I see very little of "western way" from most people here. What most posters are trying to do is to explain the procedure to use sick days the same as Korean teachers, given that Korean teachers do use sick days AND that the schools staff is generally cooperative in providing sick days.
Several posters have mentioned that what was wrong was how the person went about using their sick days.
I'm sure on some Korean Teacher's site, there is some Korean teacher wondering about why the procedure for calling in sick and another teacher who got in a dispute with the vice-principal over how they used their sick days... |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
You are distorting the issue and going to the absurd to avoid adapting to a cultural practice.
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I'll leave you to your ramblings. There's no arguing with a brick wall.
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You describe yourself and many others on this board. The question is, why can't you go in to work....Oh I forgot, your western and you do not like to work. You want to be pampered and spoiled. |
User (Calendar), watch it with the above comment.
The Mod Team. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
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| Next time he should just go in and vomit all over the coteacher |
Riiight. Now you over-exaggerate and continue on into the absurd. You are not the boss, you are the employee, you ask not tell.
Why do westerners who come here have such a hard time grasping the concept tat they have to adapt to a different culture? Korean culture frowns upon sick days and practices the fact that employees come in when they are sick.
If you want the western culture, it is 5,000+ miles to the east, oh and please try your games on a lot of employers there and see how long you remain employed.
You need to remember that because of visa restrictions, the Korean hagwons, schools and other teaching facilities cannot look for substitutes nor can a substitute system be installed for foreigners. Your it and you need to show up for work. |
I don't like to wade into this. However, it appears that the OP (Original Poster), unless I am mistaken, works at a public school. Public school contracts mention that foreigners are allowed to have the sick days. These contracts are sent to them. Many public schools, actually, do understand if a foreigner has the flu and can't come. However, some schools, like the one that foreigner is at has a co-teacher who is not understanding. So, it depends, on the school. It's not simply about Westeners adapting. If the schools do not want to be honest about the sick days, then they should state that in the contract if they want to be honest. Otherwise, there is some kind of dishonesty at the institution in question.
Also, if a hagwon states in the contact that you get sick days (say 2 or 3), and if you really need to use those days, and those days are allowed, under your contract, then you should get them. By the way, it's all part of the Korean Labor Code, and law. Are you supporting violating the law and that workers do not matter?
One can expect that contracts are less likely to be honored in Korea than say in Germany and America, but that doesn't make it correct. One can't excuse not honoring a contract and using cultural differences as an excuse. People have used that to justify abusing women in various countries. You're simply focused on protecting your culture, and I understand it. In my opinion, two parties sign a contract, it's a legal document, and both sides should honor the contract. |
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lichtarbeiter
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| calendar wrote: |
| bbud656 wrote: |
| I did an afterschool cooking class that required me to handle and prepare food for about 50 kids and they went nuts when I tried to use a sick day. This is straight public school contract as well, not through some company. I had 11 sick days in my contract. I got threatened with firing and with my severance being with held. I even filed a complaint about all this with the POE coordinator after it happened a second time and not much happened. In fact, it just backfired on me and I still am out money from the school and didnt get a letter of recommendation. They didnt even consider it unsafe that I might give first graders the flu or whatever. |
You all act like the western way is the supreme way and that all nations of the world must bow to that ideal. It isn't & the world doesn't. You have moved to a different culture with a different set of standards and way of doing things. You cannot compare the two and say the non-western way is wrong. They are both human standards and one is not greater than the other.
Is it that hard to don a mask and plastic gloves to protect the students? Will it kill you to adapt to a new way of thinking? We are not talking about moral dangers here, they are not asking you to kill someone. Sometimes you need to compromise, but if you do not don't blame the Korean people for being rigid in their response to you. |
Refusing to grant a right stipulated in a legal contract that they voluntarily signed boils down to "a different set of standards and way of doing things"?
Not good enough. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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"..a right stipulated in a legal contract.."
That's the bottom line right there. The argument that it's Korean culture to come in sick is completely irrelevant. Calender, you seem to be trying too hard to please your master. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Theres a cultural divide regarding what the sick days provision in the public school contract actually means. To the Koreans who drew up the contract, it covers hospitalization or equally serious doctor-monitored incapacity. It in no way equates to random instances of "not feeling well." Its not the same as self-determined absences in the west.
Schools & co-teachers will generally take a dim view of your calling in sick for a day here a day there. Even if well under the maximum, questionable absences will weigh badly on your evaluation at the end of the year. In my province evaluation pass scores are being raised next year as one aspect of gradual downsizing. Some hoping for renewal may be in for an unpleasant surprise.
Yes, Korean teachers take sick days too. But unless they go on extended medical leave, they are expected to do extra make-up classes for every class missed.
Last edited by schwa on Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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