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cwflaneur
Joined: 04 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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So you dig out an example of something you posted three years ago? Enough said 
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| cwflaneur wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| These are KOREAN stereotypes about many foreigners... |
As should have been clear, I was referring to your extrapolation that these stereotypes about foreigners are widespread among Koreans. And, if you had torn through my sarcasm, you'd see that I was not rebuking you for making that extrapolation. It was meant to be read in the larger context of you having a long history of being against any attempt to interpret Korea or make generalized statements about the place (particularly if such statements are even slightly critical in nature...).
Oh well. A joke is ruined if it has to be explained... nm. |
Oh you mean statements like the below where I said
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I'm sure I could find a lot more documented cases of KOREAN teachers engaging in improper behaviour with their students (not just sexual assaults but beatings involving a closed fist or metal object.
However that seems to get swept under the rug here...
I wonder who could have said that....oh wait now
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=152204&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=17
SUCH a nasty little basher that TheUrbanMyth fella is. |
So as we can all see I am not above critiquing Koreans or Korea and quite harshly too. What I object to is when such criticism turns into xenophobia or hatred or is based on outdated information/ignorance...it is rare when that doesn't happen...when it does I'm not adverse to contributing my own 'two cents' as in the link above.
Or perhaps you mean in the Contract Sticky thread where I warn posters of underhanded nasty tricks by cheating hakwon directors and will even do the math for them to show this. Hmm exactly WHAT nationality are those hakwon directors again?
A joke is also ruined if it doesn't stand up to scrutiny and thus is not funny. But your trying in and of itself is rather amusing. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:11 am Post subject: |
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I HOPE this is only for show on the internet...but generally if someone is disgusted with the environment around them to the point of refusing to eat the food...it will be noticed and picked up on.
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If he goes into class slagging off everything about Korea every day I'm pretty sure there would have been enough complaints from the parents by now for him not to get on with his Principal. That's one thing that very quickly becomes an issue here.
Lots of people on these boards say the only thing they like or liked about Korea was/is the kids they teach. Unless you stick your fingers down your throat and go 'urrgh' every time the concept of Kimchi is mentioned in a lesson, why would the kids know about your taste in food? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| cwflaneur wrote: |
| So you dig out an example of something you posted three years ago? Enough said |
It would have been if you had qualified your statement. But you claimed that I have a history of being against "ANY" attempt to interpret Korea or to make generalized statements about the place your words not mine). Thus it doesn't matter whether it was posted 3 years ago or 30 years ago...it simply shows that your comment is not true.
But if you don't like that example how about my remark TODAY where I claimed that many Koreans held these stereotypes? Or how about my recent remarks in the Contract Sticky thread regarding the underhanded practices of KOREAN hakwon directors?
Those are certainly not defending Korea or Koreans. Sorry but your argument fails right here. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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I HOPE this is only for show on the internet...but generally if someone is disgusted with the environment around them to the point of refusing to eat the food...it will be noticed and picked up on.
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If he goes into class slagging off everything about Korea every day I'm pretty sure there would have been enough complaints from the parents by now for him not to get on with his Principal. That's one thing that very quickly becomes an issue here.
Lots of people on these boards say the only thing they like or liked about Korea was/is the kids they teach. Unless you stick your fingers down your throat and go 'urrgh' every time the concept of Kimchi is mentioned in a lesson, why would the kids know about your taste in food? |
Well he's claimed multiple times that Korean food is disgusting. So it's a fair assumption to make that he doesn't eat in the cafeteria with the kids/other teachers. Missing a few times is no biggie...but if he skips it every day they are going to think either
(a) he doesn't like them or (b) he doesn't like the food. Neither of which is likely to endear him to them. I guess he could claim he has an allergy to ALL Korean food..but they're about as likely to buy that as you are to buy the Brooklyn Bridge
Oh and it's not that I'm saying he goes into class slagging off Korea to the kids...I'm sure he knows better...what I am saying is that if the environment disgusts you and you believe that your culture is superior (both of which he has claimed) you'd have to be pretty darn professional not to even let a touch of that creep in (subconsciously or otherwise.) Yeah it's a messageboard but I somehow doubt people can pull a complete 180 outside of it...if they can, that's actually a bit scary. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| mikesaidyes wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| jfromtheway wrote: |
| Oops, then I mistook you for a woman. I should've taken the "gay bar" statement at face value. Not that there's anything wrong with it... but you should have just said outright, "I'm extraordinarily gay... steeped in gayness." *Quoting Seinfeld here* I'm always glad to hear about people being open about being gay. I also respect the other team, though I'll never be able to switch teams myself. |
He made it pretty clear when he first joined the board. Though I'm not saying that you should remember that.  |
How did you remember that??? |
Sorry, just saw this. I thought it was amusing (in a good way) how up front you were about it. That and the easy username! |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:09 am Post subject: |
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Money, women, travel, money, lack of other prospects, inertia, money...did I forget money?
Yeah the professionalism just shines through doesn't it? A glowing example for us all to emulate.
I HOPE this is only for show on the internet...but generally if someone is disgusted with the environment around them to the point of refusing to eat the food...it will be noticed and picked up on.
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Wait! Someone is working because they want money? Call Batman! What kind of vile beast has a job because they want money? How dare he come to Korea, get a job, do his job, and get paid for it. Does he not understand Korea?
You clearly don't like the guy but you have no proof that he is a bad teacher, no matter how much you want it to be true. Everyone is out for the money. If I was rich do you think I would still be working? How many lottery winners keep their jobs? None. Just because the guy is in it for the money doesn't make him a bad teacher, nor do any of the other factors he mentioned. So what if he doesn't like Korean food. That doesn't affect his teaching ability. |
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RK12
Joined: 19 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:28 am Post subject: |
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It's not just what's in the classroom. It's also what one does outside of the classroom. Sure, kids could love you and all because you play games and in classroom and such. But what about things that go on like if a co-teacher, the principal asks you to come to dinner after school, and you decline because you don't eat Korean food? It would be insulting to the person who asked especially if you do it every time.
Think about back home, you would expect an immigrant to the US to learn English, why is it different for you for Korea? "I'm not suppose to speak Korean in class, that's not what I'm paid for. No reason to use it or learn it." You'd expect a high school French teacher from France to learn English so at times they can quickly translate something or say things like "verbs" and "nouns" to explain what the word is. I'm not asserting that you speak Korean in the classroom because Korea likes to have immersion in the classroom. But what about outside of class? Do you just expect everyone to speak English to you? Do you just not interact with people around you who are Korean and speak Korean? Hang out in only pockets of foreigner communities? Korean people will see you doing something like this and they judge foreigners to act like this and, like people do, generalize that every foreigner will do that.
If you knew Korean and a bit of culture, you could save that money you want so badly. At traditional Korean markets, you can get the same food for 1/2 price or less then the grocery store (well that is also considering you're buying Korean food type of things and not your favourite home brands from America or the UK or wherever). You could go to these markets without knowledge of Korean, but when the seller sees you not using Korean, they could charge you more than what they would do to someone who was Korean or spoke Korean.
To shown interest in Korea, eating Korean food, learning bits of Korean, etc would be seen as respect for the country you're in. And in Korea and surrounding countries, respect is something considered the most important and integrated in most parts of the society from actions to speech.
Refusing Korean food, refusing to learn any Korean, refusing to experience the culture, etc is very disrespectful. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:48 am Post subject: |
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True.
But they hired the guy.
Enjoy.
When I was there, I studied Korean, I tried to go to as many of the
school functions as I could, I did my best to be "respectful".
And yet they let me go after 2 years to hire someone just off the boat
with no experience.
Why?
It saved them a few won.
As long as they have that attitude, they deserve what they get. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Think about back home, you would expect an immigrant to the US to learn English, why is it different for you for Korea? |
This comes up time and time again. He is not an immigrant, he is a temporary worker in a country where English is widely spoken and is anyway the international language. How many American engineers for example, contracted to work in an Arab country building a bridge or something for one or two years bother to learn Arabic? That is a more realistic comparison.
As some waygug-in pointed out, the kind of teaching job where they care about whether you speak Korean or not or eat in the canteen is probably not the kind of place you'd want to stay at for more than a year anyway. |
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jfromtheway
Joined: 20 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| RK12 wrote: |
It's not just what's in the classroom. It's also what one does outside of the classroom. Sure, kids could love you and all because you play games and in classroom and such. But what about things that go on like if a co-teacher, the principal asks you to come to dinner after school, and you decline because you don't eat Korean food? It would be insulting to the person who asked especially if you do it every time.
Think about back home, you would expect an immigrant to the US to learn English, why is it different for you for Korea? "I'm not suppose to speak Korean in class, that's not what I'm paid for. No reason to use it or learn it." You'd expect a high school French teacher from France to learn English so at times they can quickly translate something or say things like "verbs" and "nouns" to explain what the word is. I'm not asserting that you speak Korean in the classroom because Korea likes to have immersion in the classroom. But what about outside of class? Do you just expect everyone to speak English to you? Do you just not interact with people around you who are Korean and speak Korean? Hang out in only pockets of foreigner communities? Korean people will see you doing something like this and they judge foreigners to act like this and, like people do, generalize that every foreigner will do that.
If you knew Korean and a bit of culture, you could save that money you want so badly. At traditional Korean markets, you can get the same food for 1/2 price or less then the grocery store (well that is also considering you're buying Korean food type of things and not your favourite home brands from America or the UK or wherever). You could go to these markets without knowledge of Korean, but when the seller sees you not using Korean, they could charge you more than what they would do to someone who was Korean or spoke Korean.
To shown interest in Korea, eating Korean food, learning bits of Korean, etc would be seen as respect for the country you're in. And in Korea and surrounding countries, respect is something considered the most important and integrated in most parts of the society from actions to speech.
Refusing Korean food, refusing to learn any Korean, refusing to experience the culture, etc is very disrespectful. |
The last couple posters have it right. I may come off more harshly. What a dumb post. How dare we not accept the Korean way of life? Really? What's the comparison to their, most often, critically bogus and lumped in and unfounded views of us? As well as their assumption that their "culture" should be accepted on an as is basis by everyone who resides here? Please.
I would guess this poster has traveled almost no where in his life to jump to such a dumbfounded conclusion. Double standards can be worthy of debate, but the paranoia regarding Korean viewpoints of westerners is unequivocally retarded. Yes, you may care about how Koreans feel about "us" if you're planning to spend the rest of your life here, and that's fine.
But to assume all of us can/should be self-integrated into liking Korean food, have an obligation to bust our butt to assimilate language-wise, and have any self-defining compulsion towards acquiring their cultural norms, is a crock of you know what. We have to be respectful? Almost all of us here are respectful: Most of us have never been arrested, we don't have diseases, we passed the drug test, we rarely get in to trouble here, and many of us (not me) survive here for long periods of time. Respect yourself, and learn a little more about the great big world, and all that goes on within it, before posting such shortsighted views pertaining only to the limited realms of your being. |
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thunderbird
Joined: 18 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| RK12 wrote: |
It's not just what's in the classroom. It's also what one does outside of the classroom. Sure, kids could love you and all because you play games and in classroom and such. But what about things that go on like if a co-teacher, the principal asks you to come to dinner after school, and you decline because you don't eat Korean food? It would be insulting to the person who asked especially if you do it every time.
Think about back home, you would expect an immigrant to the US to learn English, why is it different for you for Korea? "I'm not suppose to speak Korean in class, that's not what I'm paid for. No reason to use it or learn it." You'd expect a high school French teacher from France to learn English so at times they can quickly translate something or say things like "verbs" and "nouns" to explain what the word is. I'm not asserting that you speak Korean in the classroom because Korea likes to have immersion in the classroom. But what about outside of class? Do you just expect everyone to speak English to you? Do you just not interact with people around you who are Korean and speak Korean? Hang out in only pockets of foreigner communities? Korean people will see you doing something like this and they judge foreigners to act like this and, like people do, generalize that every foreigner will do that.
If you knew Korean and a bit of culture, you could save that money you want so badly. At traditional Korean markets, you can get the same food for 1/2 price or less then the grocery store (well that is also considering you're buying Korean food type of things and not your favourite home brands from America or the UK or wherever). You could go to these markets without knowledge of Korean, but when the seller sees you not using Korean, they could charge you more than what they would do to someone who was Korean or spoke Korean.
To shown interest in Korea, eating Korean food, learning bits of Korean, etc would be seen as respect for the country you're in. And in Korea and surrounding countries, respect is something considered the most important and integrated in most parts of the society from actions to speech.
Refusing Korean food, refusing to learn any Korean, refusing to experience the culture, etc is very disrespectful. |
koreans love eating western food, so do i. koreans hate learning foriegn languages, so do i. koreans find there culture stiffling and wanna get away from it, so do i. koreans think traditional korean stuff and there historys boring, so do i. koreans gladly pay for pleasure, so do i. koreans would rather game or drink than study, so do i.
i think ur being very disrespectful by not acting like our hosts. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
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Money, women, travel, money, lack of other prospects, inertia, money...did I forget money?
Yeah the professionalism just shines through doesn't it? A glowing example for us all to emulate.
I HOPE this is only for show on the internet...but generally if someone is disgusted with the environment around them to the point of refusing to eat the food...it will be noticed and picked up on.
|
Wait! Someone is working because they want money? Call Batman! What kind of vile beast has a job because they want money? How dare he come to Korea, get a job, do his job, and get paid for it. Does he not understand Korea?
You clearly don't like the guy but you have no proof that he is a bad teacher, no matter how much you want it to be true. Everyone is out for the money. If I was rich do you think I would still be working? How many lottery winners keep their jobs? None. Just because the guy is in it for the money doesn't make him a bad teacher, nor do any of the other factors he mentioned. So what if he doesn't like Korean food. That doesn't affect his teaching ability. |
What's with the hysterical defensive strawmen? No one said that working because you want money is wrong. And no one said not liking Korea food make him a bad teacher.
The argument was about professionalism. If you are in teaching solely to make money, travel and chase women...that is not professional. Teaching just like other public service jobs should be about the people you help. In other words your students and doing a good job should be first and foremost. The fact that neither was mentioned speaks volumes.
And no, just because one is NOT a professional teacher does NOT absolve one of the attempt to TRY to act like one.
In sum he is perfectly entitled to keep on doing this just as I am perfectly entitled to criticize it. As for the issue about Korean food I merely pointed that it could affect his ability to do the job not that it made him a bad teacher.
Why not try to read what was written instead of making it up? Wouldn't that be easier? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| As for the issue about Korean food I merely pointed that it could affect his ability to do the job not that it made him a bad teacher. |
I think if you find yourself in the kind of working environment where what you eat for lunch is important enough to have an impact on your ability to do a job, it's time to look for a better job |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| No one said that working because you want money is wrong |
Ok.
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| If you are in teaching solely to make money, ...that is not professional. |
Contradicts what you wrote earlier.
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| just because one is NOT a professional teacher |
You have no proof the guy is not professional. You're just angry that he is not acting the way you want him to act. I see from your previous posts and history that you are biased and unwilling to consider other peoples opinions so I'm not going to bother wasting my time with a further reply. |
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Andromeda
Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Location: Woodstock, GA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| Well everyone, it looks like going to Korea is a pretty good idea. In reading all of your comments (pleasant or otherwise), I have little doubt that you have all had to hash out a lot of concepts. Culture and cross-cultural interaction seems to be at the top of the list; that was one of my reasons to teach in Korea. |
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