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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
I've proofed things for companies here... only to have them reject my advice.
They do what they want to do. |
The thing is in many Western countries major companies send things to more than one translator to make sure things are "kosher". A major problem in Korea is that, though the level of English has improved in Korea, those who have excellent English skills almost on par with a native speaker are probably not hired. I don't mean someone who is a Korean who has a good accent and can teach at a hagwon. You would need someone who has maybe spent some time abroad and studied English for years. I mean I don't see why they couldn't have hired a Kyopo to make sure such an error wouldn't occur. The company is at fault for: 1)Using a stereotyped image of Africans as illustrated by their use of the words indigenous and primitive and 2)not hiring a native speaker or someone of Korean background with an excellent command of the language and understands how to be culturally sensitive.
There's a problem sometimes of having quality people in the right places in the country and consulting the right people most probably. This kind of mentality that allows for this kind of blooper to happen can carry over, possibly, in other fields like engineering, science etc....You have to ensure those you're hiring really know their field and are not simply hired because they're related to XYZ. |
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fosterman
Joined: 16 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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the advertising/marketing guy or girl is an idiot!
I mean seriously? the savanna? the safari? rural Africa blar blar
primitive energy, (people still living in huts, come to the real life museum so to speak.
I mean really? if you ask me, that's primitive marketing.
obviously the guy hasn't even been to Nairobi! |
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Jane
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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The issue specifically with KE (and with other Korean firms) is that they have a certain company culture, and that company culture often dictates the nature of advertising, etc for the company. This takes priority over grammar, spelling and overall sound expression in English. At Korean companies, things are written in Korean, and then translated and 'edited' in English. This leaves room for cultural and language considerations (some things just don't translate!), but companies often don't want to hear it. It's usually a worker with a passable level of English who will make the call on what goes into a document, and they have pressure to make sure it fits into what their boss wants.
You could argue that this is a rather myopic view, but well, anyone with experience working with or for a K company will have encountered the lack of flexibility or understanding when things aren't done a certain way.
In my past experience working on KE documents--for the record, I did not proof this Kenya announcement--my suggestions are shot down because they are not in line with Korean Air's corporate culture and have they have therafter gone ahead and filled in the blanks with what they wanted instead, without heeding proper language or or cultural considerations. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jonpurdy wrote: |
| busanliving wrote: |
| It's a shame there are no native English speakers in the country who could have proof read it for them. |
This times 1,000.
It's a continual embarrassment that companies that can afford it don't bother to hire native speakers. |
Last year at Christmas I nicely informed Starbucks that their shirts/hats made no sense. The phrase was "Let's Merry", now that doesn't make sense right?? Is "merry" an action? I thought you had to "be merry"? They all turned red and I think they called in the native speaker to check it cause while I was sipping my latte some whitie chick came in and started looking over some papers they gave her with a furrowed brow.
Anyhow it turns out corporate SBUX thought it was cool to say it that messed up way. It was used all over the world that way. Talk about screwin' with people's heads.
"Teachaaa but Stahbucks says it is right!" |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| The thing is in many Western countries major companies send things to more than one translator to make sure things are "kosher". A major problem in Korea is that, though the level of English has improved in Korea, those who have excellent English skills almost on par with a native speaker are probably not hired. I don't mean someone who is a Korean who has a good accent and can teach at a hagwon. You would need someone who has maybe spent some time abroad and studied English for years. I mean I don't see why they couldn't have hired a Kyopo to make sure such an error wouldn't occur. The company is at fault for: 1)Using a stereotyped image of Africans as illustrated by their use of the words indigenous and primitive and 2)not hiring a native speaker or someone of Korean background with an excellent command of the language and understands how to be culturally sensitive. |
I'll gladly give you 1), but not 2). Not every company shells out enough for such a position to attract someone like you described. Especially when that person has Korean ethnicity, many more doors besides "English editor" or "translator" are open for him or her. To be fair, I would assume Korean Air itself can set aside such a budget, but I've applied and worked at plenty of places that offered dismal salaries which would send any competent ethnically Korean applicant running for the hills.
Also, in my experience, being gyopo doesn't guarantee that the person possesses a flawless command of the English language, or that the person can be a competent editor. Hell, the awesome translators I currently work with didn't understand what's wrong with using the word foreigner all over the place. A woman I know who does simultaneous interpretations couldn't get modals right to save her life when she worked with me as a translator. My fellow editor at my first editing job, a Korean dude who went to the US as a child and spent the vast majority of his life there, made errors here and there.
| Quote: |
| There's a problem sometimes of having quality people in the right places in the country and consulting the right people most probably. This kind of mentality that allows for this kind of blooper to happen can carry over, possibly, in other fields like engineering, science etc....You have to ensure those you're hiring really know their field and are not simply hired because they're related to XYZ. |
lol
As a general rule, the quality of an English translation is the absolute last thing anyone in an office here cares about. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
| The thing is in many Western countries major companies send things to more than one translator to make sure things are "kosher". A major problem in Korea is that, though the level of English has improved in Korea, those who have excellent English skills almost on par with a native speaker are probably not hired. I don't mean someone who is a Korean who has a good accent and can teach at a hagwon. You would need someone who has maybe spent some time abroad and studied English for years. I mean I don't see why they couldn't have hired a Kyopo to make sure such an error wouldn't occur. The company is at fault for: 1)Using a stereotyped image of Africans as illustrated by their use of the words indigenous and primitive and 2)not hiring a native speaker or someone of Korean background with an excellent command of the language and understands how to be culturally sensitive. |
I'll gladly give you 1), but not 2). Not every company shells out enough for such a position to attract someone like you described. Especially when that person has Korean ethnicity, many more doors besides "English editor" or "translator" are open for him or her. To be fair, I would assume Korean Air itself can set aside such a budget, but I've applied and worked at plenty of places that offered dismal salaries which would send any competent ethnically Korean applicant running for the hills.
Also, in my experience, being gyopo doesn't guarantee that the person possesses a flawless command of the English language, or that the person can be a competent editor. Hell, the awesome translators I currently work with didn't understand what's wrong with using the word foreigner all over the place. A woman I know who does simultaneous interpretations couldn't get modals right to save her life when she worked with me as a translator. My fellow editor at my first editing job, a Korean dude who went to the US as a child and spent the vast majority of his life there, made errors here and there.
| Quote: |
| There's a problem sometimes of having quality people in the right places in the country and consulting the right people most probably. This kind of mentality that allows for this kind of blooper to happen can carry over, possibly, in other fields like engineering, science etc....You have to ensure those you're hiring really know their field and are not simply hired because they're related to XYZ. |
lol
As a general rule, the quality of an English translation is the absolute last thing anyone in an office here cares about. |
I do think a company like Korea Air could spend enough money to make sure they have A Kyopo, native speaker who is not a Kyopo, or a Korean with excellent command of the language to help them produce such advertisements in English. Some people here tried to downplay this as simply a mistranslation. Yet, Africans feel people focus too much on stereotypes. It's not hard to fly to Kenya or even read a lot about Kenya to mention other things besides stereotypical elements, and if one wants to mention indigenous elements even using the words raw or original energy would not look good in English juxtaposed with indigenous.
As many people have said, Korean culture in a way doesn't necessarily focus enough on quality because you will have the opinions of native speakers ignored. Anyway, do you really need a native speaker to think that maybe referring to some Africans in a stereotypical way might offend them? They weren't being meticulous. That much is clear, and no one can tell me there aren't Koreans who can speak English well enough to handle such a task.
They just wouldn't necessarily get the job. |
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soomin
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
I'll gladly give you 1), but not 2). Not every company shells out enough for such a position to attract someone like you described. Especially when that person has Korean ethnicity, many more doors besides "English editor" or "translator" are open for him or her. To be fair, I would assume Korean Air itself can set aside such a budget, but I've applied and worked at plenty of places that offered dismal salaries which would send any competent ethnically Korean applicant running for the hills. |
I think this is especially true because if you look at their English-language ads, there isn't much talking going on... certainly not enough to warrant paying a full-time, fluent editor to proofread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEYngxOMsmg (2 sentences of English)
or this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMA5CHCAqFQ which anyone on their flights had to watch anytime they turned on a new movie... It only has a few words and a half-sentence of English... also, one of the words is awkward in the context ("pledging") @.@ |
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jaj
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: |
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As for 'Englishee' and how it's used here, I have an adult student who works for a major Korean car company. His English is unintelligible. He writes reports in English, however, that seem to be critical to product safety that are distributed to top management throughout their business. I ask him how he writes such complex reports in English when he knows so little, and he shrugs and laughs.
As for Korea and Kenya, anyone who thinks Korea's on some kind of charity mission doesn't read the paper or watch the news. The African middle class is growing, especially in Kenya, South Africa and Nigeria. China is all over this continent. Korea's just competing for current and future market share.
They actually get very big government contracts in Africa. K telecom companies are making a mint in Africa cabling and wiring entire countries. Africa's experiencing more growth than Europe right now and if it continues, it will be interesting to see how Korea manages to be part of this growth while insisting that Africa is just this primitive and pitiful place Kpop bands donate money to.
But if the Korean women who complain to me all the time about their Korean features and gasp at the physical perfection of characters on "Goship Girl" and flood Samsung Medical Center's plastic surgery unit to chase the white ideal with a vengeance are an indicator, Koreans must consider Africans absolutely monstrous. |
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daeguowl
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| I would hypothesise that if you analyse promotional materials provided by the Kenya Tourist Board etc, you will find more photos of Masai Warriors carrying spears than of white-collar workers carrying smart phones. Therefore while the wording was clumsy, I don't have a problem with the spirit of what they said. Fact is Nairobi is not regarded as a fast-paced modern city like Tokyo or Singapore. Rather Kenya is primarily seen as a tourist destination for Safaris. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Having a native speaker on staff is not a panacea as too many fall into the "it's good enough for government work" attitude that prevails here. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Having a native speaker on staff is not a panacea as too many fall into the "it's good enough for government work" attitude that prevails here. |
Well being the capitalist society that Korea is, you get what you pay for. Pay someone a shit ton of money, you'll get that much out of them. Pay someone a pitiful wage, you won't. Problem is with Korean companies wanting to pay $20k a year for talent that is worth $60k. Given the toilet paper the won has become, you really should NOT expect high-quality, professional work for 25 million won a year.
One of the biggest reasons nobody wants to work for those so-called small and midsize businesses (I say businesses because some of them should really be bankrupt) is because the pay and benefits are terrible, especially for the talent they want.
Last edited by motiontodismiss on Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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double post...sorry
Last edited by motiontodismiss on Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Having a native speaker on staff is not a panacea as too many fall into the "it's good enough for government work" attitude that prevails here. |
Well being the capitalist society that Korea is, you get what you pay for. Pay someone a shit ton of money, you'll get that much out of them. Pay someone a pitiful wage, you won't. Problem is with Korean companies wanting to pay $20k a year for talent that is worth $60k. Given the toilet paper the won has become, you really should NOT expect high-quality, professional work for 25 million won a year.
One of the biggest reasons nobody wants to work for those so-called small and midsize businesses (I say businesses because some of them should really be bankrupt) is because the pay and benefits are terrible, especially for the talent they want. |
If the pay is too low, don't take the job. Don't take the job, do crappy work, and then blame it on the low pay. |
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motiontodismiss
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Having a native speaker on staff is not a panacea as too many fall into the "it's good enough for government work" attitude that prevails here. |
Well being the capitalist society that Korea is, you get what you pay for. Pay someone a shit ton of money, you'll get that much out of them. Pay someone a pitiful wage, you won't. Problem is with Korean companies wanting to pay $20k a year for talent that is worth $60k. Given the toilet paper the won has become, you really should NOT expect high-quality, professional work for 25 million won a year.
One of the biggest reasons nobody wants to work for those so-called small and midsize businesses (I say businesses because some of them should really be bankrupt) is because the pay and benefits are terrible, especially for the talent they want. |
If the pay is too low, don't take the job. Don't take the job, do crappy work, and then blame it on the low pay. |
Easier said than done dude. I have bills to pay. But you pay crap wages, I do crap work. Simple as that. In a capitalist country that rule applies everywhere, even in the labor market.
And as for the small and midsize businesses I mentioned, most of them blame the young people for not working in unsafe conditions at below minimum wage and call it a labor shortage. No, asshole, a labor shortage is when you can't get people to work for you at $200k a year, not $15k. The reason you can't get people to work for you is because your company's crap, business is terrible, you'll probably go bankrupt in a year or two and the compensation is crap. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| motiontodismiss wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Having a native speaker on staff is not a panacea as too many fall into the "it's good enough for government work" attitude that prevails here. |
Well being the capitalist society that Korea is, you get what you pay for. Pay someone a shit ton of money, you'll get that much out of them. Pay someone a pitiful wage, you won't. |
So obviously those CEOs that run everything must be the best workers possible!
You can get great work out of people earning a crap wage and poor work out of people making a good wage. A lot comes down to talent and work ethic. People with a strong work ethic could be dropped into a minimum wage job and will still try to do the best they can.
And there are people who no matter what, will always see their wage as too low. Give them 80k and they say they should get 120. Give them 120 and they say they should get 150. |
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