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| Can you do the flat footed squat? |
| No, I can't. (I grew up in a Western country) |
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55% |
[ 24 ] |
| No, I can't. (I grew up outside of a Western country) |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| Yes, I can. (I grew up in a Western country) |
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41% |
[ 18 ] |
| Yes, I can. (I grew up outside of a Western country) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Other (Please specify) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 43 |
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| Author |
Message |
chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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 Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
| I can do it but it's not comfortable. I think if standing is more comfortable you should probably answer No to this poll |
I think if you can do it but its not comfortable, then you cannot do it.
It should be comfortable. It has nothing to do with muscularity or straining. It has to do with dorsal flexion of the ankle joint and gastroc/soleus and achilles flexibility. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| Squire wrote: |
| I can do it but it's not comfortable. I think if standing is more comfortable you should probably answer No to this poll |
I think if you can do it but its not comfortable, then you cannot do it.
It should be comfortable. It has nothing to do with muscularity or straining. It has to do with dorsal flexion of the ankle joint and gastroc/soleus and achilles flexibility. |
the quadriceps needs to be sufficiently stretched to do this properly. many Koreans/Asians have stretched quads from doing this since they were young. over time, the muscles stayed stretched out is all
cowboys do it all the time - real ones, that is  check your older westerns, they'll be squatting around the campfire
as children grow older, depending on their society and culture, they sit in chairs, stand up more and gradually their quads will lose flexibility making it more difficult to do as adults. the man in the picture has always done this - it isn't something he just decided to do one day.
Last edited by luckylady on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| fermentation wrote: |
I'm surprised at how many people can't do it with their feet flat. Have you never lifted weights?
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My barbell squat is comfortably over 400lbs and I've been barbell squatting since my early teenage years. I can't do the Asian squat.
It really has nothing to do with the parallel squat done in weightlifting. There is very little flexibility/mobility needed to reach parallel.
I get the impression that you either don't understand what I'm referring to, did not look at the picture I linked to carefully, or do not recognize the difference between the parallel squat and flat footed full squat. |
do you seriously squat 400 lbs? wow. very impressive. also you're correct - one has little to do with the other. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| the quadriceps needs to be sufficiently stretched to do this properly. many Koreans/Asians have stretched quads from doing this since they were young. over time, the muscles stayed stretched out is all |
Yes, except this doesn't have to do with the quadriceps. It is ankle dorsiflexion, mainly limited by the gastrocnemius and soleus muscle flexibility.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22100617
As you can see in the study, people with a wedge under the heel, which alters the degree of dorsiflexion and ankle flexibility needed, are able to squat lower.
I'm working on training to do this now by stretching the calves and opening up the hips. Most people are more flexible than me; they might need only to stretch their calves.
One could alternatively try placing a wedge under their heels and training with a progressively lower wedge. Its probably best to hold the position at the bottom.
Dave Draper training with Arnold: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4ebig.jpg When bodybuilders squat ass to grass, they typically put a board under their heel because they lack the ankle flexibility to get that deep (as well as putting a greater percentage of stress on the posterior chain over the quads).
My squat is fine but not good for a decade of training. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
CONCLUSIONS:
Altering ankle-dorsiflexion starting position during a double-leg squat resulted in increased knee valgus and MKD, as well as decreased quadriceps activation and increased soleus activation. These changes are similar to those seen in people with PFP. |
this study clearly states detrimental effects are happening from altering the ankle's position.
further, it's common knowledge among running athletes the quad is what supports the knee - strengthen the quad, lessen knee injuries or at least the severity. I learned the hard way - dislocating my l knee in a soccer game; 2 yrs of rehab
the study's conclusion stating decreased quad activation is not a good thing - we want our quads to stretch when we squat and relax when we stand - that takes pressure off the knees.
nice photo - do you know who it is with arnold?
my bf and I actually ran into him once in a gym - we came in an hour before closing and they were closing early - we turned around to leave and Arnold and his crew were coming in - the gym was closing early for him to work out; he was in the area for a movie shoot. we stuck around and watched - he came out of the dressing room in cut off ragged football jersey pants and began leg curls. it was awesome watching him. a fellow with his 6 yr old was standing watching also - Arnold came up and shook the little kid's hand and the kid was like Hey Arnold! while us adults were literally star struck |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
this study clearly states detrimental effects are happening from altering the ankle's position. |
Right, it's clearly healthier to build the ankle flexibility to squat properly rather than use supports. Plenty of people who weight trained in the 80s and 90s when using a heel support was more popular trashed their knees. It's written about a lot in Beyond Braun.
| Quote: |
| further, it's common knowledge among running athletes the quad is what supports the knee - strengthen the quad, lessen knee injuries or at least the severity. |
okaylol.jpg
| Quote: |
| the study's conclusion stating decreased quad activation is not a good thing - we want our quads to stretch when we squat and relax when we stand - that takes pressure off the knees. |
Thanks for telling me the conclusion that I've already read which does not support your original point.
| Quote: |
| nice photo - do you know who it is with arnold? |
Dave Draper.
| Quote: |
| my bf and I actually ran into him once in a gym - we came in an hour before closing and they were closing early - we turned around to leave and Arnold and his crew were coming in - the gym was closing early for him to work out; he was in the area for a movie shoot. we stuck around and watched - he came out of the dressing room in cut off ragged football jersey pants and began leg curls. it was awesome watching him. a fellow with his 6 yr old was standing watching also - Arnold came up and shook the little kid's hand and the kid was like Hey Arnold! while us adults were literally star struck |
Awesome |
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Drew345
Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| I remember one time I was struggling to use a squat toilet, propping myself up with a hand on the front and a hand on the back wall, and the guy in the stall next to me was reading a newspaper and smoking (from all indications, didn't exactly see it). Yeah, I am a bit jealous. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| chungbukdo wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
| the quadriceps needs to be sufficiently stretched to do this properly. many Koreans/Asians have stretched quads from doing this since they were young. over time, the muscles stayed stretched out is all |
Yes, except this doesn't have to do with the quadriceps. It is ankle dorsiflexion, mainly limited by the gastrocnemius and soleus muscle flexibility.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22100617
As you can see in the study, people with a wedge under the heel, which alters the degree of dorsiflexion and ankle flexibility needed, are able to squat lower.
I'm working on training to do this now by stretching the calves and opening up the hips. Most people are more flexible than me; they might need only to stretch their calves.
One could alternatively try placing a wedge under their heels and training with a progressively lower wedge. Its probably best to hold the position at the bottom.
Dave Draper training with Arnold: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tya4ebig.jpg When bodybuilders squat ass to grass, they typically put a board under their heel because they lack the ankle flexibility to get that deep (as well as putting a greater percentage of stress on the posterior chain over the quads).
My squat is fine but not good for a decade of training. |
The idea, as I understood it, was the plates under your heels put more of the stress on the quads rather than on the glutes. That's why some people wrecked their knees doing squats that way and why you don't often see people doing it these days. That Draper picture is from what, the 60s?
It's not that hard to do a full squat below parallel but yea, if you want to get deep in the hole you need flexible hips and calves. I think the big problem for lots of people is the hips and hams from too much sitting.
Tom Platz going hams to calves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXQRKbP6keI |
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