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b-class rambler
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Serious question, was anyone really unaware that you remove footwear before entering someone's home?
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Yes, I was surprised to see that mentioned above.
Where I'm from, in the UK, you'd generally be expected to wipe your feet on the brush doormat when entering, but probably not actually take your shoes off. Although that does vary a little and I've known a few people at whose houses you would be expected to take your outdoor shoes off as you entered.
However, I had thought that removing shoes before entering a home was one of the better known aspects of East Asian culture and I'm surprised to hear of reasonably well educated westerners coming here and honestly not being aware of it.
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| One of the things I wish I'd known before I came here was more about American English. I spent a lot of time 'correcting' students' mistakes before looking them up and realising they were acceptable in American English. I was actually just trying to find out if wish + simple past might be another example of this. Not being a grammar nazi. |
I thought your point and the reason for the question was reasonably obvious, as was the fact that it wasn't a 'grammar nazi' type of comment. Perhaps that would be something I wish I'd known before coming to this part of the world - that some other native English speakers are more sensitive to these kinds of things than I realised. 
Seriously though, whilst I'd like to think my knowledge of the areas where American English differs from British is pretty good, I too have been caught out occasionally when a student has said something that I didn't realise was acceptable in American or some other form of native speaking English. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| giraffe wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Serious question, was anyone really unaware that you remove footwear before entering someone's home?
I understand for restaurants and other places but in our house growing up, people would remove their shoes in the hallway before coming in. |
yeah no kidding..
I always thought it was a french Canadian thing .. taking off shoes at the entrance and wearing slippers in the house.. Thats how I grew up my whole life... so coming to korea and taking off shoes was no suprise to me...
Growing up, I was SHOCKED to see my english friends going back home with dirty shoes and jumping on their couch or beds.... never really understood the mentality.... |
Good point.
We grew up in Ontario and no one would wear shoes in my parents house! To do so would be to invite my mother's wrath. 
We lived in France when I was younger (family moved there for 3 years) and my mother had a heck of time with most french people who visited our apt as they would never take off their shoes. |
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giraffe
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Good point.
We grew up in Ontario and no one would wear shoes in my parents house! To do so would be to invite my mother's wrath.
We lived in France when I was younger (family moved there for 3 years) and my mother had a heck of time with most french people who visited our apt as they would never take off their shoes. |
No clue about the european french...
I was refering to french Canadians from Quebec ( where my WHOLE family is from).. Every french canadian houses ( family or just friends) we always had to take our shoes off at the entrance before entering the house.... including my parents house.. Its always been the rule no exceptions...
I mostly grew up in Ontario too and going to my english speaking canadian friends house was always a huge shock to me. Especially seeing them walk in with muddy shoes and then start jumping on their couch.... I was also always shocked by their eating habits tooo.. they always seemed to dirty their face especially eating ice cream and chocolate and they would leave it there for hours....
Not that i want to turn this into a french candian vs english canadian thread... just my experience as a french canadian growing up in Ontario.. I'm sure many canadians follow the custom of not wearing outside shoes in the house However i would say 90% of my friends ( when i was younger) didnt have such rule =/... As a grown up in toronto though, Most people I know take off their shoes at the entrance though.... |
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JustinC
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| I wish I knew we were still on final approach |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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To get back on topic, I should add my 2 cents. I wish I had known that not wearing a shirt in public was a crime in Seoul. I had a nice buff look back then, and a very hot summer day encouraged me to take off my shirt and walk around town. I got a lot of hard stares from the Koreans, but that was back in the day when you got lots of hard stares for just being foreign anyway. So I though nothing of it until the police confronted me about my public indecency.  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| giraffe wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Good point.
We grew up in Ontario and no one would wear shoes in my parents house! To do so would be to invite my mother's wrath.
We lived in France when I was younger (family moved there for 3 years) and my mother had a heck of time with most french people who visited our apt as they would never take off their shoes. |
No clue about the european french...
I was refering to french Canadians from Quebec ( where my WHOLE family is from).. Every french canadian houses ( family or just friends) we always had to take our shoes off at the entrance before entering the house.... including my parents house.. Its always been the rule no exceptions...
I mostly grew up in Ontario too and going to my english speaking canadian friends house was always a huge shock to me. Especially seeing them walk in with muddy shoes and then start jumping on their couch.... I was also always shocked by their eating habits tooo.. they always seemed to dirty their face especially eating ice cream and chocolate and they would leave it there for hours....
Not that i want to turn this into a french candian vs english canadian thread... just my experience as a french canadian growing up in Ontario.. I'm sure many canadians follow the custom of not wearing outside shoes in the house However i would say 90% of my friends ( when i was younger) didnt have such rule =/... As a grown up in toronto though, Most people I know take off their shoes at the entrance though.... |
no no you are right about french canadians. Typically, they wear no shoes in their house. |
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lemak
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| I wish I had known that not wearing a shirt in public was a crime in Seoul. I had a nice buff look back then, and a very hot summer day encouraged me to take off my shirt and walk around town. I got a lot of hard stares from the Koreans |
Hah. I remember a few years ago on an absolute sauna of a day going out on the balcony just in shorts to put the wash in the machine whilst talking to my Mom on my cell phone. Couldn't have been out there more than a minute, and as far as I know more or less not visible to anyone downstairs in the car park. Sure enough a few minutes later the landline phone rang a couple of times. Once from the boss "Many people are complaining you are walking around outside naked!!", and a second from the English speaking guy in the security office "Must-uh wear--uh da t-shirt-uh! Korea people no like da no shirt-uh!!!" Actually never knew until that point that it seems many Koreans more or less regard a topless guy as on par with a topless chick it seems. Quote the PSY "I will sing a concert topless!!" *shock horror* - big effin deal, but apparently in the ROK it is. |
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Triple007
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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My mom used to own a European Children's shoe store when I was younger. Growing up I always had the most in style, fashionable shoes on the planet. As I got older I realized I loved shoes, but hated wearing them. I take my shoes off EVERYWHERE. Korea was the place for me. My girlfriends grandpa always gives me a hard time.
Korean Food is Spicy. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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How shockingly rude Korean students are. Honestly, where did the Western notion come from that oriental kids are so polite. My students are so shockingly rude and disrespectful (until a Korean teacher enters the room) that its mind boggling.
It's rather astonishing. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:08 am Post subject: |
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I wish I'd known something about how to manage a classroom and plan a lesson before I came to Korea. I was told that I'd get some on-the-job training before I started teaching ("No experience necessary!"), but like most teachers I got no meaningful training before I was in a classroom. You'll probably be left to your own devices to figure out what to do as well.
If you have the time and money, doing a TESOL or TEFL cert of some kind before you go would be helpful. Even a quickie online cert could be helpful. Some good books you might find helpful for advice on teaching English are Learning Teaching by James Scrivener as well as Jeremy Harmer's How to Teach English and The Practice of English Language Teaching.
For rock-solid advice about classroom management (especially important if you're teaching kids) you can't do much better than The First Days of School by Harry Wong. If you lose control of your class early on, it will be much harder to regain control later than if you manage it well from day one.
Outside of the classroom, the more Korean you know the less stressful your life will be. I second the advice to at the very least learn how to read Korean script before you get here. Start learning some basics by picking up a textbook, or using a free resource such as Sogang's free online program (http://korean.sogang.ac.kr/) and there are also a lot of great apps out there for learning basic Korean. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| giraffe wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
Good point.
We grew up in Ontario and no one would wear shoes in my parents house! To do so would be to invite my mother's wrath.
We lived in France when I was younger (family moved there for 3 years) and my mother had a heck of time with most french people who visited our apt as they would never take off their shoes. |
No clue about the european french...
I was refering to french Canadians from Quebec ( where my WHOLE family is from).. Every french canadian houses ( family or just friends) we always had to take our shoes off at the entrance before entering the house.... including my parents house.. Its always been the rule no exceptions...
I mostly grew up in Ontario too and going to my english speaking canadian friends house was always a huge shock to me. Especially seeing them walk in with muddy shoes and then start jumping on their couch.... I was also always shocked by their eating habits tooo.. they always seemed to dirty their face especially eating ice cream and chocolate and they would leave it there for hours....
Not that i want to turn this into a french candian vs english canadian thread... just my experience as a french canadian growing up in Ontario.. I'm sure many canadians follow the custom of not wearing outside shoes in the house However i would say 90% of my friends ( when i was younger) didnt have such rule =/... As a grown up in toronto though, Most people I know take off their shoes at the entrance though.... |
I also don't want to hijack this thread, but I just wanted to add that in my experience in both Quebec and Ontario I never once met any family that allowed shoes indoors. French, English, Polish, Italian, Jewish, Catholic, Gay, White, Black or Brown. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just adding my experience. I remember my friends and I laughing at TV shows with people wearing shoes inside the house. I honestly didn't know real people did that until I met Americans en mass at University. Even at my various schools in both provinces growing up, we had to have outdoor and indoor shoes (otherwise we had to walk around in socked feet, which was unbearable in the winter). The only 'shocking' part of the Korean take on this is that they're so technical and adamant about it. Like another poster related, even stepping on the border of the she area is asking for a scolding.
Back on topic: What I wish I knew when I stepped off the plane was that about 90% of what you read in all those guides to Korea is useless and/or made up. Even though this site can give a skewed view of Korea, it is 100 times more honest than any 'professional' guides out there that seem only to perpetuate myths about this place. It's almost like those authors have never actually been here but just keep re-printing the same 'cultural traits' that were written 100 years ago. Don't get stuck into believing something about Korea or Koreans just because a book told you so. I mean, don't get stuck believing just one thing about Korea or Koreans for any reason. But certainly don't expect the place to be what Lonely Planet tells you it is, because they're basing it on something they read 10 years ago, which based it on something they read 10 years before that, which based it on... |
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giraffe
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
Even at my various schools in both provinces growing up, we had to have outdoor and indoor shoes (otherwise we had to walk around in socked feet, which was unbearable in the winter). The only 'shocking' part of the Korean take on this is that they're so technical and adamant about it. Like another poster related, even stepping on the border of the she area is asking for a scolding.
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Yeah thanks for reminding me... all the schools i went to growing up we had outside and inside shoes + gym shoes. BUt this was only mandatory for elementary school. Once we reach highschool we only had Gym shoes and outside shoes. Except for winter time or rainy days where it was common logic to change into a comfortable pair of shoes... However eventhough not mandatory in highschool most people did have outside and inside shoes anyways... |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
How shockingly rude Korean students are. Honestly, where did the Western notion come from that oriental kids are so polite. My students are so shockingly rude and disrespectful (until a Korean teacher enters the room) that its mind boggling.
It's rather astonishing. |
Holy crap then it seems you have not taught western kids or teens. You think asian kids are rude and disrespectful? Try out north american teens or kids.
I found Korean students to be 10x better behaved in class and considerably more respectful to their teachers. They (K-kids) had other issues that were a challenge for a teacher but rudeness and lack of respect was not one of them. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Holy crap then it seems you have not taught western kids or teens. You think asian kids are rude and disrespectful? Try out north american teens or kids.
I found Korean students to be 10x better behaved in class and considerably more respectful to their teachers. They (K-kids) had other issues that were a challenge for a teacher but rudeness and lack of respect was not one of them. |
Maybe things have changed a bit since the last time you taught kids here. |
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Flashcard_Queen
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Holy crap then it seems you have not taught western kids or teens. You think asian kids are rude and disrespectful? Try out north american teens or kids.
I found Korean students to be 10x better behaved in class and considerably more respectful to their teachers. They (K-kids) had other issues that were a challenge for a teacher but rudeness and lack of respect was not one of them. |
Maybe things have changed a bit since the last time you taught kids here. |
I've only taught back home (NB, Canada) as an intern, when I was doing by B.Ed, and as a substitute teacher. In those capacities, I definitely encountered some very rude and disrespectful students.
The biggest thing that bothers me here is knowing that certain students are rude to me or behave badly in my classes because I'm a foreigner, and they believe they can get away with it; at some point during their lives, for whatever reason, they started to think it's acceptable to behave differently towards me (and foreigners, in general) than they do towards their regular classroom teacher.
I feel bad saying this, but it always makes me a little happy when I find out a particularly awful Korean student also causes problems for his or her Korean teachers.
| Scorpion wrote: |
How shockingly rude Korean students are. Honestly, where did the Western notion come from that orienta kids are so polite. My students are so shockingly rude and disrespectful (until a Korean teacher enters the room) that its mind boggling.
It's rather astonishing. |
Going back to what Scorpion originally wrote, I have to agree, overall. He (I assume) didn't say that western students are little angels; just that the notion of oriental/Korean students being so polite isn't accurate.
When I first decided to come here, I remember my friends asking, "Why Korea?" There were many reasons, and there are even more reasons why I'm still here now (why I came back, even after extended periods in Canada), but I do recall tagging on at the end of my 'why' rants, "plus, the kids are so much better behaved." Again, maybe for their Korean teachers, but certainly not always for their foreign ones. |
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