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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:53 am Post subject: |
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The biggest idiot here was the police officer. Probably one of the dumbest I've seen.
Why didn't this idiot of a cop just take down the plate number and report it up the chain. With the plate, all the CCTV and witnesses, the suspects shouldn't be hard to apprehend and arrest the next day, WITHOUT risking more lives of other motorists and pedestrians in a pointless high-risk chase for some GIs with an airgun.
Also, how does chasing in a taxi actually work, and who the heck would pull over for a random Korean taxi. If I saw some random Korean taxi chasing me, and some unknown guy jump out in the dark, I would have to assume some vigilantes are after me. They may be justified in running that stupid cop over, and the cop would have deserved it for being so negligent. Police shouldn't pursue unless they're in a MARKED CAR WITH LIGHTS, especially at night.
Sounds more like amateur hour with the Korean police force, needlessly escalating a routine call about an airgun into a chase/lethal response situation. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:06 am Post subject: |
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The police handled the situation perfectly. And with more restraint compared to the US at least. Try to run over an officer in the US, expect more than 3 shots fired.  |
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rkc76sf
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| The Korean authorites will punish them, and when they are done; the US army will punish them. |
People keep saying things like this; however, it's an ill-informed comment. Under the UCMJ, if the accused are punished by a court, even a foreign court, they cannot legally be charged with the same crime by a military court ("double jeopardy" also is a concept in military justice). On the other hand, depending on the severity of the crime and/or sentence, the accused may be administratively separated. Technically, that's not a punishment; it's just an "administrative matter."
Yes, I know that in the past some military members have been punished twice for the same offense. That was in the distant past. Some have been punished for "damage to government property" when they somehow injured themselves, although members of the military are not now and have never been military property. |
Here's the exact wording:
8. Where an accused has been tried in accordance with the provisions of
this Article either by the military authorities of the United States or the
authorities of the Republic of Korea and has been acquitted, or has been
convicted and is serving, or has served, his sentence, or his sentence has
been remitted or suspended, or he has been pardoned, he may not be tried
again for the same offense within the territory of the Republic of Korea by
the authorities of the other State. However, nothing in this paragraph shall
prevent the military authorities of the United States from trying a member
of its armed forces for any violation of rules of discipline arising from an act
or omission which constituted an offense for which he was tried by the
authorities of the Republic of Korea.
You can interpret that last sentence how you want. |
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Los Angeloser
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
Idiots , extremely lucky some one was not killed. K-cops seem to have handled it well.
The U.S. military is in South Korea because China, Russia, Japan and South Korea want the U.S. military in South Korea.
The day the soldiers leave, the English teachers leave. Thats a no brainer. |
Why didn't the cop in front of the car let the driver run him over, all the other cops were trying to get runover. They actually thought they could pull over the car by themselves. They certainly weren't in any hurry to get out of the way, would you dodge a bullet? What police force is trained to dodge bullets other than S. Korean policemen?
I didn't know China wants the U.S. in S. Korea?
Are you going to leave if/when the U.S. leaves? Just because you might doesn't mean everyone else will. If so then why don't all native English teachers pitch-in/donate to the U.S. military fund? NET's could have its own lobby. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:42 am Post subject: |
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I was in korea in 9i and a commando team killed a couple of civilians in Seoul. Actually cut the head oof of a jogger. You know the Kims they always like a good shock attrocity. Well there was quite a number of teachers who left then.
Same in the first nuclear standoff. When it looked like Clinton might bomb the crap out of the North and they were moving U.S. troops in from japan, many nets headed for home.
At the end of wwII , that was a war, started in Asia . Russia was given control of North Korea, the u.s. the South. korea was divided because a united korea is an invitation to war. always has been. The winners of WWII China, russia Britain France were the security concil of the U.N. This division and the U.S. presence in South korea was seen as a way to prevent another outbreak of war in the region. It has worked. except for kim's aggresion in the 50" which sucked China in. Korea is the key to invading China controling the sea lanes and with air power based in korea can hit China and Japan and Russia. So the U.s. presence is needed here not just to stop the norks but to stop the Russians, Chinese, the Japanese and the South from doing anything stupid. Of course China wants that. the whole region got rich off of this balance.
There would not be a whole scale invasion if the U.S. left, but there would be agitation, riots instigated by the North. Infiltrators, terrorism. Nets would be easy targets. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Airborne9 wrote: |
| rollo wrote: |
The day the soldiers leave, the English teachers leave. Thats a no brainer. |
Yeah of course. If the Soldiers leave SK there is no incentive for Koreans to learn English, therefore no demand for teachers to be here. Who would have thought that the current global language is based on what the US army does in SK.
If any English teachers stay, I suppose they will just have to put up with Kim Jung UN pushing them around since the 30K US troops are the only thing stopping him. |
I remember once when I was rucking with some Korean guys the subject came up. Korean guys said to me: "The ROK has a very very gooooood air force".
Didn't say anything about any other part of the ROK, just the air force.  |
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javis
Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| rkc76sf wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| The Korean authorites will punish them, and when they are done; the US army will punish them. |
People keep saying things like this; however, it's an ill-informed comment. Under the UCMJ, if the accused are punished by a court, even a foreign court, they cannot legally be charged with the same crime by a military court ("double jeopardy" also is a concept in military justice). On the other hand, depending on the severity of the crime and/or sentence, the accused may be administratively separated. Technically, that's not a punishment; it's just an "administrative matter."
Yes, I know that in the past some military members have been punished twice for the same offense. That was in the distant past. Some have been punished for "damage to government property" when they somehow injured themselves, although members of the military are not now and have never been military property. |
Here's the exact wording:
8. Where an accused has been tried in accordance with the provisions of
this Article either by the military authorities of the United States or the
authorities of the Republic of Korea and has been acquitted, or has been
convicted and is serving, or has served, his sentence, or his sentence has
been remitted or suspended, or he has been pardoned, he may not be tried
again for the same offense within the territory of the Republic of Korea by
the authorities of the other State. However, nothing in this paragraph shall
prevent the military authorities of the United States from trying a member
of its armed forces for any violation of rules of discipline arising from an act
or omission which constituted an offense for which he was tried by the
authorities of the Republic of Korea.
You can interpret that last sentence how you want. |
You two seem to be having trouble communicating. You're both right. The individuals in this case could indeed be punished by both ROK and US military authorities, but not for the same crime. For example, they could be convicted of causing a disturbance, fleeing the police, etc. by the Koreans, and then in turn be punished for making a false statement (the one who was shot told the gate guards that he had been wounded while someone stole his car) and for violating whatever orders they violated during the course of their mayhem in Itaewon. |
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ajosshi
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: ajosshi.com
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
The biggest idiot here was the police officer. Probably one of the dumbest I've seen.
Why didn't this idiot of a cop just take down the plate number and report it up the chain. With the plate, all the CCTV and witnesses, the suspects shouldn't be hard to apprehend and arrest the next day, WITHOUT risking more lives of other motorists and pedestrians in a pointless high-risk chase for some GIs with an airgun. |
At this point, A) The officer did not know who owned the vehicle. It could have easily been stolen. Plates would not have helped, nor would they identify the passengers in the vehicle. As well, B) these fools had already bowled through a number of officers... a crime in itself.
I worry about him using the taxi for the chase, but I'm more than fine with him firing shots into a vehicle that's trying to hit him (and did).
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My issue has been with the repeated cries about the SOFA.Perhaps CentralCali, or someone more schooled on the subject, can correct me - but isn't the only constricting thing about the SOFA in this case that k-cops can't hold the accused prior to trial? I mean, they were able to question them, and they can investigate all they want outside of the base. They just don't get physical detention until the indictment.
Correct? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| The dumb thing about the guy in this case is that if he hadn't run, the police would likely have just given him a stern talking to or told him to get back on base. The guy probably thought it would be like back home where the cops would come in, guns drawn, do a takedown, and charge him with like 8 felonies/send him to Gitmo as an 'Enemy Combatant'/Treat him like a potential mass shooter or whatever ridiculousness. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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This story has everything. I like to imagine the conversation between the police officers and the taxi driver.
Taxi driver sitting in his taxi when the door is yanked open and Korean police officers jump in.
"What the *beep*! What's going on? I've done nothing wrong."
"Follow that car."
"I'm not going that way. I'm an Incheon taxi."
"They were shooting at people! Drive, dammit!"
"Big deal. This is a crappy area anyway."
"He shot at Koreans!"
"WHAT??? HE SHOT AT 우리사람?!"
"YES."
Driver's eyes narrow as he takes a puff of his cigarette.
"Let's catch these sons of dogs. Buckle up, bitches"
Car screeches off in pursuit. |
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Los Angeloser
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| What is the outcome of the incident that several soldiers harassing a Korean woman in a subway? Anyone know? |
I believe it was revealed that the behavior of the soldiers was embellished by either the media or the witnesses. |
Then could this "toy" gun shooting incident be the same? |
Doubt it, I saw video of it on the news last night. A bunch of cops were surrounding the car and the driver took off. Also there was a recording from a taxi that showed the car flying past them. Along with all the damage they caused from running in to parked cars.
The soldiers are lucky that they didn't run over a cop or civilian. |
After a second look those aren't all cops "surrounding" the car. It appears the police don't mind the help of citizens when trying to apprehend suspects.
Who knows how they would've "helped" the police had the suspects gotten out of the vehicle on that Sat. night? But the welcoming of citizen helpery was evident with the taxi driver. Come to think of it, since taxi drivers don't go through CRC's, it could've been criminal chasing criminal. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
At this point, A) The officer did not know who owned the vehicle. It could have easily been stolen. Plates would not have helped, nor would they identify the passengers in the vehicle. As well, B) these fools had already bowled through a number of officers... a crime in itself.
I worry about him using the taxi for the chase, but I'm more than fine with him firing shots into a vehicle that's trying to hit him (and did). |
I'm not worried about the cops being assisted by a taxi driver. I would prefer that one of the cops drive the thing during a chase, though. We've all seen what the traffic is like and how, let's say compliant with traffic laws pertaining to emergency vehicles so many Koreans are. There's no way the police would've been able to catch up with the (alleged) perpetrators if the cops had to wait for one of their own vehicles to arrie on the scene.
| Quote: |
| My issue has been with the repeated cries about the SOFA.Perhaps CentralCali, or someone more schooled on the subject, can correct me - but isn't the only constricting thing about the SOFA in this case that k-cops can't hold the accused prior to trial? I mean, they were able to question them, and they can investigate all they want outside of the base. They just don't get physical detention until the indictment. |
For serious offenses, the Korean civilian authorities can retain custody of the accused even before an indictment is issued; the Korean civilian authorities can also take custody of the accused in such cases if the accused is in the hands of the US military authorities. For less severe offenses, the accused, if already apprehended by the Korean civilian authorities, must be surrendered to the US military until an indictment is issued. Once that indictment is issued, the US military must guarantee the accused's appearance at all proceedings (investigatory, hearings) related to the case as requested by the Koran civilian authorities. If convicted and sentenced to imprisonment, then the accused will serve their sentence in a Korean prison.
Note that this is decidedly different from the way ROK military members are treated in countries where the ROK has a SOFA. It is also different from the way ROK military members are treated in their own country. And just for fun, do a quick search on who gets to apprehend and try a civilian, even a Korean civilian, if the victim of a serious crime such as murder happens to be a Korean military member on active duty.
Yeah, you're not the only one who has serious issues with the way certain Korean "journalists" cover stories related to the US military. Speaking of which, did you happen to notice that at least one of the Korean rags...er, news outfits had to interject the "June 13th Incident" into this story? It has no bearing at all on the case and its mention can have only one purpose, that of agitating the rag...er, news outfit's readership. |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm wondering if the k-cop paid his taxi fare and issued a speeding/reckless driving citation to the taxi driver. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Los Angeloser wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| What is the outcome of the incident that several soldiers harassing a Korean woman in a subway? Anyone know? |
I believe it was revealed that the behavior of the soldiers was embellished by either the media or the witnesses. |
Then could this "toy" gun shooting incident be the same? |
Doubt it, I saw video of it on the news last night. A bunch of cops were surrounding the car and the driver took off. Also there was a recording from a taxi that showed the car flying past them. Along with all the damage they caused from running in to parked cars.
The soldiers are lucky that they didn't run over a cop or civilian. |
After a second look those aren't all cops "surrounding" the car. It appears the police don't mind the help of citizens when trying to apprehend suspects.
Who knows how they would've "helped" the police had the suspects gotten out of the vehicle on that Sat. night? But the welcoming of citizen helpery was evident with the taxi driver. Come to think of it, since taxi drivers don't go through CRC's, it could've been criminal chasing criminal. |
Why do you feel the need to defend them? They did something stupid and I'm sure they regret it. |
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