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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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 Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| Nationally certified or not, it seems like a dangerous precedent to be hiring teachers and firing them three years later so you don't have to offer them permanent status. Turning over contract workers to replace them with more contract workers in the same position means it is not a temporary position. The court should force the MOEs hands and say you either need these workers (regardless of their qualifications) and offer the employees in them full-time status or you don't and eliminate the positions. The KTU should be supporting these "temporary" workers. |
It's really not as clear cut as it appears. The regular teachers don't want to be associated with the contract workers because of a "turf" issue. Actually, the Labor Act outlines the specific requirements for the hiring of temporary workers and it does state that temporary workers cannot be classified as regular or permanent employees by virtue of the nature of their employment. So the MOE has nothing to force in terms of these workers, because they already know that according to the Labor laws they are within their legal rights to terminate the employment of the temporary workers. What needs to happen is a change in the Labor Act for this to really have any meaningful result for the workers. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| newb wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| Before long every worker in Korea, foreign or Korean will be a contract worker. |
I actually prefer this. "Regular" Korean teachers have too much chips on their shoulders. Perhaps, they'll do better job of teaching knowing that they may not be renewed if they underperform. |
...so long as there's an accurate system of assesment in place.
Not just wether some ajosshi personally likes you or not.
The whole situation is useful because it will make some realise the way they've been treating foreign teachers has not exactly been fair.
In 2009 the regular teachers all voted to oust the FT's from the system and replace them with KET's. now its four years down the road and they've voted to oust the KET's.
Isn't it obvious that this is simply a jealous turf war rather than being about education? But then again this is created by the system which is designed to cause insecurity and paranoia. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| silkhighway wrote: |
| Nationally certified or not, it seems like a dangerous precedent to be hiring teachers and firing them three years later so you don't have to offer them permanent status. Turning over contract workers to replace them with more contract workers in the same position means it is not a temporary position. The court should force the MOEs hands and say you either need these workers (regardless of their qualifications) and offer the employees in them full-time status or you don't and eliminate the positions. The KTU should be supporting these "temporary" workers. |
With public schools, they can't hire contract teachers full-time unless they pass the national exam. And if said teacher passed the national exam, they would not be a contract teacher in the first place. The government sets quotas and hires everyone of them on a permanent basis.
However, private-public schools are reluctant to hire those contract teachers because of dwindling student numbers. But I've seen contract teachers go to another school for a 6 month contract and come back to the same school, that let them go, for another 3 year term. |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| As I mentioned a little earlier, the supply and demand for these types of workers is dwindling very fast in Korea as they begin to reach the point that their own regular teaching staff are better trained to do the same job. It affects not only the Korean contract workers, but also affects the NETs as well. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| salutbonjour wrote: |
| andrewchon wrote: |
| They know they signed on as contract workers. What they are hoping for is: some backlash against civil service by the general populus who are, by the way, seriously unhappy with the civil service already. Call it jealousy if you like, but not ten years ago being a civil servant was a personal embarrassment. Nowadays, they are No.1 on the list of ajummas and ajosshis with daughters to marry-off (and sons vice-versa). Their voices won't be heard anyway. In this country money and only money talks. |
Civil servants is good for girls, but guys can do better in South Korea. Banks or chaebols pay 50-100% more. |
Civil servants get the big fat white envelopes. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
The whole situation is useful because it will make some realise the way they've been treating foreign teachers has not exactly been fair. |
I wouldn't hold out much hope for that.
I think Korean teachers, with their licenses and training, look down on both these contract teachers and NETS, and see nothing wrong with the treatment we or these contract teachers have and will receive.
I'm reminded of a university in Daegu (or Gyeongju?) that fired all their foreign teachers when they protested. And it was like 25 or 30 or them.
In regards to these contract workers, I disagree with them. They signed contracts, why should they have jobs for life? I don't see a mgmt trick here. |
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silkhighway
Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
In regards to these contract workers, I disagree with them. They signed contracts, why should they have jobs for life? I don't see a mgmt trick here. |
If they're working in permanent positions under the guise of contract workers, I see their point, not about "jobs for life", but about having permanent positions. (That's not the same thing as tenure. )I don't know labour laws in Korea, but as a rule, most developed countries have laws protecting employees from this type of contract limbo.
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I think Korean teachers, with their licenses and training, look down on both these contract teachers and NETS, and see nothing wrong with the treatment we or these contract teachers have and will receive. |
Yes, but it's a race to the bottom. Why hire more "licensed" (they passed some stupid quota-based test, big deal) teachers on permanent contracts when they can hire contract-based teachers instead? |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| As I mentioned a little earlier, the supply and demand for these types of workers is dwindling very fast in Korea as they begin to reach the point that their own regular teaching staff are better trained to do the same job. It affects not only the Korean contract workers, but also affects the NETs as well. |
Which was always the point of the NET and the KET!
The problem is, that these new teachers may be able to speak English well, or even be 100% fluent - but there is a different between this and TEACHING.
Insert CD - click, repeat - one more time repeat..........................
The variety and QUALITY of the teaching materials has to change in elem schools.
The K-teachers need some QUALITY training on how to use these materials too. Then get rid of all the NET and KET's....... |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| salutbonjour wrote: |
| andrewchon wrote: |
| They know they signed on as contract workers. What they are hoping for is: some backlash against civil service by the general populus who are, by the way, seriously unhappy with the civil service already. Call it jealousy if you like, but not ten years ago being a civil servant was a personal embarrassment. Nowadays, they are No.1 on the list of ajummas and ajosshis with daughters to marry-off (and sons vice-versa). Their voices won't be heard anyway. In this country money and only money talks. |
Civil servants is good for girls, but guys can do better in South Korea. Banks or chaebols pay 50-100% more. |
Civil servants get the big fat white envelopes. |
And a job until retirement, unlike the chaebols that tend to push the bulk of their workforce out in their early 50's. How the heck are you going to sustain the same lifestyle without that paycheck for another 10-15 years? Korean civil service jobs win in this case IMO. |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| If you consider the timing of the situation regarding these contract employees you will find that they were hired under a previous Presidential Administration. The Government throws money at these types of programs on a regular basis to provide a way of showing the Korean public that they are fulfilling a promise to "change" or "reform" education in specific ways. The truth of the matter is that whatever happened under a previous Administration is going to change under new leadership. The current South Korean President has her own agenda as to what should be done with education, and it may be that this program was seen by her administration as something that has simply met its own end. Just an opinion on the subject, but it seems to make sense as I have seen other things like this over the last 9+ years here in Korea that affected both Korean and foreign workers. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
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Meanwhile, english budgets continue to shrink (science is the new flavor).
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Funny, I had heard that gym class/fitness will soon become the next big priority because of rising obesity rates among young people in Korea. But maybe that person was just guessing. You never know. |
Here it is-
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2973594&cloc=joongangdaily|home|newslist1
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Schools to offer more PE classes
June 25,2013 The Ministry of Education said yesterday that it will expand the required hours of physical education classes of high schools nationwide, mandating them to offer at least two to three courses per week from next year.
The new initiative is part of efforts to foster more well-rounded talent and declare a departure from the current test-oriented academic schedule where physical classes are often arbitrarily replaced by subjects like English and math.
“We need to break down the predominant idea that arts, music and physical classes are minor parts of our education and the majority of time should be allotted to math, Korean language and English,” said Education Minister Seo Nam-soo.
“Our future talent should be well-rounded and the course schedule should go hand in hand with that objective,” he said.
Currently, elite specialized schools, such as science or foreign language high schools, had merely one sports class per week last year, while autonomous private high schools had an average of one and a half classes per week.
Most common high schools already comply with the government guideline of two exercise courses per week, but those special-purpose private institutions are required to double their hours of physical activity.
The Education Ministry also demanded that all middle schools add one more class per week for middle school third graders. That grade will now have two sports sessions per week.
In addition to the revision of the high school education system, all elementary schools are ordered to hire at least one physical education instructor by 2017. Currently, only 46 percent of elementary schools have such instructors.
The move is also aimed at containing the rising teen obesity rate of 14.7 percent last year, a jump from 11.2 percent in 2008.
Along with the increase in regular classes, the education department will subsidize 1,000 new sports clubs next year as high school extracurricular activities, adding that it will focus on sports largely favored by female students.
The Education Ministry will also encourage co-ed schools to provide separate physical teaching for female students to offer more tailored courses for them.
The extension of PE hours is intended to strip away Korean education institutes’ reputation as a harsh regimen of endless cramming and rote memorization.
The Education Ministry pledged to build 20 new gymnasiums every year and 100 grass fields as many schools lack high-quality sports facilities.
BY PARK EUN-JEE [[email protected]]
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Squire
Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Korean home room teachers voted to get rid of native and Korean English teachers? They want to teach more classes? They might regret that when all of the contract teachers are gone and they have to teach a full schedule rather than just two or three classes a day.
Elementary teachers here should get in touch with their British equivalents and find out how easy they have it. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Squire wrote: |
Korean home room teachers voted to get rid of native and Korean English teachers? They want to teach more classes? They might regret that when all of the contract teachers are gone and they have to teach a full schedule rather than just two or three classes a day.
Elementary teachers here should get in touch with their British equivalents and find out how easy they have it. |
Is this recently or was this a few years ago? Thought some of that hatred was dying down. Maybe not? |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Many Koreans are now on temporary contracts? Is this like in Europe, where the government has strict rules on firing and permanent status causing many young French to not be able to get a job? I often hear from Koreans about many young people here not being able to get a job. Too many rules governing hiring and firing while requiring lots of benefit payouts? I'd say take some away from those samsung dudes and share the wealth. Ha ha. (No, not a socialist; just the opposite.) |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
The whole situation is useful because it will make some realise the way they've been treating foreign teachers has not exactly been fair. |
I wouldn't hold out much hope for that.
I think Korean teachers, with their licenses and training, look down on both these contract teachers and NETS, and see nothing wrong with the treatment we or these contract teachers have and will receive.
I'm reminded of a university in Daegu (or Gyeongju?) that fired all their foreign teachers when they protested. And it was like 25 or 30 or them.
In regards to these contract workers, I disagree with them. They signed contracts, why should they have jobs for life? I don't see a mgmt trick here. |
I guess in our culture, you might have a shot for being permenant in some jobs if you work hard and prove yourself. Korea will always need some native speakers, but none could ever be hired in a permanent role no matter how hard they work or what they do, even if they speak Korean.
Let me also add, the KT's will always be bitter and angry and resentful if you get a day or two off in the semester they don't get. Even if they keep getting raises, long vacations overall, better pension plan, and a job they can't be fired from. Yep.... |
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