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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
It is ignorance if the advertisers failed to understand that it would upset white people, specifically Americans. |
1) You can't prove they didn't realize it; as mentioned, this was made for domestic consumption, not international release.
2) Not all Americans are white. None the less, it is right that Americans -- not just white Americans, but Americans in general -- would probably be upset by this, because a different psychological and cultural scheme is at work as compared to East Asians. This is precisely why I'm so indifferent to your protestation that "PC culture exists in Korea too!" Whatever you think exists in Korea, it's not of a kind with what exists in America, so I see no profit in using the same terminology for each.
3) Perhaps most importantly, none of this talk of the advertisers state of mind has anything to do with your accusations regarding me.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| It is ignorance on your part if you think that pride is not rationalized and encouraged in East Asian countries, and if you think that there isn't a different brand of PC culture that exists here. |
1) I said rationalized and universalized. If you want to argue that Asians universalize their pride, you're just wrong. Just because the absence of a single concise word forces me to express an idea using multiple words doesn't mean you can cut that expression in half; those words came as a unit and expressed a single idea. Either you're interested in trying to understand my ideas here or you aren't. If you are, make a better effort. If you aren't, why are we talking?
2) No point in trying to twist the concept of political correctness with me. As mentioned above, I will not be a party to such linguistic obfuscation. Maybe you could apply the same word to each in the same way you could apply "love" to both your feeling for your mother and your like of chocolate, but they are none-the-less clearly different things. Such is the case here as well.
3) Again, even if this were reasonable -- which it isn't -- none of it intersects with your initial implication when you accused me of ignorance. When you accused me of ignorance, you would have had to have been monumentally ignorant yourself to have thought, "Oh, Fox doesn't realize that Americans people can upset by this kind of advertisement, and that Japanese are prideful. That makes him ignorant, and I'm going to tell him such!" Do you think I'm so foolish as to believe that?
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| Pathetic to me would be ... |
Why do you think I'm interested in your take on the matter? I didn't quote you and start responding to your opinion on this issue, did I? I'm not interested in what you consider pathetic, your "definition" of PC behavior, or so forth. I'm articulating mine, at your prompting. |
The word politically correct is a word, here is the defintion...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/politically%20correct
That is how I am using it to apply to my argument, and it is why I stated it is ignorant to think that East Asia is somehow escaping the plague of political correctness. I added that it's pathetic to be cheering for it if you aren't Japanese because you are basically praising their ability to stomp on you and mock you.
I'm not twisting the word, I'm using it literally. The way you are saying Americans complaining about this advertisement are trying to force their political correctness on Japan by being angered by this advertisement is ignorant because the reaction to that type of depiction isn't uniquely American at all. It would be offensive to depict any race in that way, and if the reverse was done to Japanese people they would be equally offended. This is not some kind of different psychological or cultural scheme at work, it's just humans getting upset someone is poking them in the eye and laughing at it.
So it is not rationalized and universalized? I'm actually not understanding how you think that regarding Korea. I think Dokdo is an obvious example of politically correct language that is to be used in Korea, and there is a campaign to bring publicity to Korea's claim on those islands AND the use of the name Dokdo internationally that is hard to ignore.
Are you claiming there isn't outrage within Korea when a person insults Korea in another country? I provided an example of that with Jay Leno. Sorry, I actually don't understand what your point is here. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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East Asians are generally not politically correct by this definition, something that should be clear by the emphasis "(as in matters of sex or race)." That said, I don't care what your particular definition is: this a conversation about my views, remember? At this point you're essentially arguing, "Fox, you're ignorant because you don't use as your definition of political correctness the same vague interpretation of a single-sentence definition that I do!" Is that really the point you came into this thread to make? That's the bold last stand you've chosen? An obvious lie about what you had in mind when you used that word?
You're making it progressively more clear you don't care about my views at all here. You engaged in a reflexive, banal, politically-correct attack on me, and now all you care about vis a vis this conversation is defending the legitimacy of that attack, even if it means lumping East Asians and Americans into one identical "politically correct" category, and even if the kind of vague "ignorance" you're trying to make a case for here has absolutely nothing to do with the character of your initial attack.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| I added that it's pathetic to be cheering for it if you aren't Japanese because you are basically praising their ability to stomp on you and mock you. |
I added that I don't care what you think is pathetic. I don't feel stomped upon or mocked, because I'm not a whiny little worm who takes offence at the tiniest trivialities. Evidently I am alone in that regard here, but that does not bother me.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| The way you are saying Americans complaining about this advertisement are trying to force their political correctness on Japan by being angered by this advertisement is ignorant because the reaction to that type of depiction isn't uniquely American at all. |
Who said it had to be uniquely American? Not me.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| It would be offensive to depict any race in that way, and if the reverse was done to Japanese people they would be equally offended. |
I've already addressed this. You opted to ignore my comment on that matter, and instead just repeat yourself. This reinforces my previous suspicion about your reasons for participating in this conversation: you don't care about what I actually say or think, all you care about is defending your completely incorrect use of the term "ignorant" earlier to avoid looking a fool. For what it's worth, I don't think you're a fool: I think you're simply doing what you were taught to do, which is to shout, "Ignorant!", "Scary!", "Racism!", and other politically correct buzz words anytime you are confronted with non-orthodox thought on this matter.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| So it is not rationalized and universalized? I'm actually not understanding how you think that regarding Korea. |
That's because you're not bothering to read and consider my position at all. The very fact that the Japanese think this kind of commercial is okay proves that their thinking on the matter is not rationalized and universalized. The very fact that the Koreans trot around talking about the purity of their race shows the non-universal character of their thought processes. Whereas the average politically correct American will whimper about how, "Racial slurs are always wrong," or somesuch, an East Asian is generally happy to simply respond to the insult as an insult rather than as a moral violation.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| I think Dokdo is an obvious example of politically correct language that is to be used in Korea ... |
Oh Jesus Christ. Did you even read your own definition?
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| Sorry, I actually don't understand what your point is here. |
I agree, you don't, which is why you shouldn't have freaked out and started tossing buzz words at me. You don't understand, and you won't understand. I think this conversation has reached its natural conclusion. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
[. I think Dokdo is an obvious example of politically correct language that is to be used in Korea, and there is a campaign to bring publicity to Korea's claim on those islands AND the use of the name Dokdo internationally that is hard to ignore.
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Dokdo is not a politically correct term though. If anything it should be called Liancourt Rocks. Remember PC terms are used so not as to give possible offense to anyone and Dokdo is offensive to the Japanese (or a certain fringe element there).
As for this supposed international campaign being hard to ignore...are you joking? I'd never heard of Dokdo until I came here and I'd be willing to bet the majority of people here as well are in the same boat. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
East Asians are generally not politically correct by this definition, something that should be clear by the emphasis "(as in matters of sex or race)." That said, I don't care what your particular definition is: this a conversation about my views, remember? At this point you're essentially arguing, "Fox, you're ignorant because you don't use as your definition of political correctness the same vague interpretation of a single-sentence definition that I do!" Is that really the point you came into this thread to make? That's the bold last stand you've chosen? An obvious lie about what you had in mind when you used that word?
You're making it progressively more clear you don't care about my views at all here. You engaged in a reflexive, banal, politically-correct attack on me, and now all you care about vis a vis this conversation is defending the legitimacy of that attack, even if it means lumping East Asians and Americans into one identical "politically correct" category, and even if the kind of vague "ignorance" you're trying to make a case for here has absolutely nothing to do with the character of your initial attack.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| I added that it's pathetic to be cheering for it if you aren't Japanese because you are basically praising their ability to stomp on you and mock you. |
I added that I don't care what you think is pathetic. I don't feel stomped upon or mocked, because I'm not a whiny little worm who takes offence at the tiniest trivialities. Evidently I am alone in that regard here, but that does not bother me.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| The way you are saying Americans complaining about this advertisement are trying to force their political correctness on Japan by being angered by this advertisement is ignorant because the reaction to that type of depiction isn't uniquely American at all. |
Who said it had to be uniquely American? Not me.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| It would be offensive to depict any race in that way, and if the reverse was done to Japanese people they would be equally offended. |
I've already addressed this. You opted to ignore my comment on that matter, and instead just repeat yourself. This reinforces my previous suspicion about your reasons for participating in this conversation: you don't care about what I actually say or think, all you care about is defending your completely incorrect use of the term "ignorant" earlier to avoid looking a fool. For what it's worth, I don't think you're a fool: I think you're simply doing what you were taught to do, which is to shout, "Ignorant!", "Scary!", "Racism!", and other politically correct buzz words anytime you are confronted with non-orthodox thought on this matter.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| So it is not rationalized and universalized? I'm actually not understanding how you think that regarding Korea. |
That's because you're not bothering to read and consider my position at all. The very fact that the Japanese think this kind of commercial is okay proves that their thinking on the matter is not rationalized and universalized. The very fact that the Koreans trot around talking about the purity of their race shows the non-universal character of their thought processes. Whereas the average politically correct American will whimper about how, "Racial slurs are always wrong," or somesuch, an East Asian is generally happy to simply respond to the insult as an insult rather than as a moral violation.
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| I think Dokdo is an obvious example of politically correct language that is to be used in Korea ... |
Oh Jesus Christ. Did you even read your own definition?
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| Sorry, I actually don't understand what your point is here. |
I agree, you don't, which is why you shouldn't have freaked out and started tossing buzz words at me. You don't understand, and you won't understand. I think this conversation has reached its natural conclusion. |
Well I'm using politically correct as it is defined in the dictionary. I don't think it is unreasonable to use it as it is supposed to be used. Different things become politically correct depending on which culture you happen to be living in at the time. I was pointing out that you are not just attacking American PC culture by praising this commercial, you are also applauding Japanese PC culture. If you aren't Japanese and you are showing appreciation for it that's pretty sad. I'm not seriously offended by the commercial, but I'm not going to talk about how it's some great statement against US PC culture.
It is politically correct to consider Korean culture superior in Korea, it is politically correct for Japanese to make a commercial like that in Japan. It would not be politically correct for a US company to make a commercial in Japan mocking Japanese racial characteristics.
I think you are so stuck on this idea that I am part of the PC stuff in the USA you aren't paying attention to my argument. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
[. I think Dokdo is an obvious example of politically correct language that is to be used in Korea, and there is a campaign to bring publicity to Korea's claim on those islands AND the use of the name Dokdo internationally that is hard to ignore.
. |
Dokdo is not a politically correct term though. If anything it should be called Liancourt Rocks. Remember PC terms are used so not as to give possible offense to anyone and Dokdo is offensive to the Japanese (or a certain fringe element there).
As for this supposed international campaign being hard to ignore...are you joking? I'd never heard of Dokdo until I came here and I'd be willing to bet the majority of people here as well are in the same boat. |
International Campaign to inform people about Dokdo
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2012/09/117_120532.html
Maybe it's not effective, but it's out there.
Liancourt Rocks would be politically correct in the USA, and if a politician happened to be in a city with a large Korean population Dokdo might be a more politically correct term to appeal to the Korean voter base.
Dokdo is the politically correct name for the island in Korea, if a Korean politician or if any Korean were to refer to it as Takeshima or the Liancourt Rocks in Korea it would be a risky name that might offend the local Koreans.
The idea of being politically correct doesn't only exist in the USA. From a Korean perspective (most Koreans perspective, etc etc etc) the title Dokdo shouldn't offend anyone, even a Japanese person, because it is the rightful name. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| You guys made me really want to see that link, but it won't load. Maybe too many whities complained? |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmm k, that wasn't very interesting. I guess the last part was kind of funny. Can't stand it when white chicks do that. |
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