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| Does not studying Korean make me a loser if I plan to stay in Korea long term? |
| Yes |
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40% |
[ 17 ] |
| No |
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40% |
[ 17 ] |
| Depends |
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19% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 42 |
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| Author |
Message |
hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: |
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No you won't be a loser even for not learning Korean if you are here a while, thats an entirely subjective judgement. lets say you take up jogging (or running) you go out and do a 5k race and lets say you finish in the back of the pack, are you a loser? No, you got out there and did something many people can't do. In my book you are winner there.
Lets expand this, you came to a foreign culture that is difficult for expats who even with a good knowledge of Korean have a hard time given Korean xenophobia etc. You succeeded in your job, you make good money and have saved a chunk, have some good friends, get to travel to some interesting places. I bet 90% of your friends, family back home envy you, you took the chance to get out of the north american mold, wife, 2 kids and a mortgage with a dull job etc. I call you a winner.
Don't let these people tell you you are loser because you didn't become fluent in Korean, love kimchi etc. I've been here 15 years, have a good job a decent lifestyle and know enough Korean to get around in a taxi, I don't like kimchi or most Korean food and I do just fine.
Now if you blow all your money on cigs, booze, cheap hookers and acting like its still college, I may have to change my mind |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:49 am Post subject: |
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As this thread shows: this is a highly personal decision and I agree it highly depends on your motivations and needs.
I personally think a long term resident (say 7-10 years) who is married locally and does not speak decent Korean is a bit of a strange thing. I think this because I would find that so limiting in terms of autonomy, understanding where you live, socializing, work and so on.
Still, lots of mid to long termers are stuck at basic Korean that goes no higher than hello, thank you and memorized sentences such as telling a cab where they live. They get by.
Make no mistake, becoming fluent is hard work and if you have no core motivation, you will likely get discouraged once you hit that wall at early intermediate level or even higher beginner level.The flip side is that knowing Korean at even a higher intermediate level will make your life in Korea far more enjoyable, provide you with more autonomy and typically dispel a lot of the miss understandings we as expats encounter when it comes to understanding things in Korea. |
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candy bar
Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
No you won't be a loser even for not learning Korean if you are here a while, thats an entirely subjective judgement. lets say you take up jogging (or running) you go out and do a 5k race and lets say you finish in the back of the pack, are you a loser? No, you got out there and did something many people can't do. In my book you are winner there.
Lets expand this, you came to a foreign culture that is difficult for expats who even with a good knowledge of Korean have a hard time given Korean xenophobia etc. You succeeded in your job, you make good money and have saved a chunk, have some good friends, get to travel to some interesting places. I bet 90% of your friends, family back home envy you, you took the chance to get out of the north american mold, wife, 2 kids and a mortgage with a dull job etc. I call you a winner.
Don't let these people tell you you are loser because you didn't become fluent in Korean, love kimchi etc. I've been here 15 years, have a good job a decent lifestyle and know enough Korean to get around in a taxi, I don't like kimchi or most Korean food and I do just fine.
Now if you blow all your money on cigs, booze, cheap hookers and acting like its still college, I may have to change my mind |
I don't really have much of a problem with the xenophobia. I have succeeded in my job. I now have my own business, teaching and editing, working with my Korean wife. I/we make good money and have saved a chunk of change, have some property, no debt. I have some good friends. I got out of the north american mold, 2 kids and a mortgage with a dull job, etc. I get to travel to some interesting places. And yes, everything was built from the bottom, up. No freebies.
I've been here 9 years, have a good job a decent lifestyle and also know enough Korean to get around in a taxi. The in-laws like me, we get along well. Kimchi is okay and I'm 50/50 on Korean food.
No, I'm not fluent in Korean, survival at best. But everything else in my life is great.
Now for those who think I'm a loser because I don't speak Korean, well you are entitled to your opinion.
I have done what has made me happy. My personal life, my family life, my social life, and my financial life are all in order.
Note
*This poll exists to show some of the HIGH HORSES out there that they don't know what they are talking about.
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| candy bar wrote: |
| hogwonguy1979 wrote: |
No you won't be a loser even for not learning Korean if you are here a while, thats an entirely subjective judgement. lets say you take up jogging (or running) you go out and do a 5k race and lets say you finish in the back of the pack, are you a loser? No, you got out there and did something many people can't do. In my book you are winner there.
Lets expand this, you came to a foreign culture that is difficult for expats who even with a good knowledge of Korean have a hard time given Korean xenophobia etc. You succeeded in your job, you make good money and have saved a chunk, have some good friends, get to travel to some interesting places. I bet 90% of your friends, family back home envy you, you took the chance to get out of the north american mold, wife, 2 kids and a mortgage with a dull job etc. I call you a winner.
Don't let these people tell you you are loser because you didn't become fluent in Korean, love kimchi etc. I've been here 15 years, have a good job a decent lifestyle and know enough Korean to get around in a taxi, I don't like kimchi or most Korean food and I do just fine.
Now if you blow all your money on cigs, booze, cheap hookers and acting like its still college, I may have to change my mind |
I don't really have much of a problem with the xenophobia. I have succeeded in my job. I now have my own business, teaching and editing, working with my Korean wife. I/we make good money and have saved a chunk of change, have some property, no debt. I have some good friends. I got out of the north american mold, 2 kids and a mortgage with a dull job, etc. I get to travel to some interesting places. And yes, everything was built from the bottom, up. No freebies.
I've been here 9 years, have a good job a decent lifestyle and also know enough Korean to get around in a taxi. The in-laws like me, we get along well. Kimchi is okay and I'm 50/50 on Korean food.
No, I'm not fluent in Korean, survival at best. But everything else in my life is great.
Now for those who think I'm a loser because I don't speak Korean, well you are entitled to your opinion.
I have done what has made me happy. My personal life, my family life, my social life, and my financial life are all in order.
Note
*This poll exists to show some of the HIGH HORSES out there that they don't know what they are talking about.
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perfect example of somebody who didn't learn much Korean and and is doing quite well, good for you. getting the in laws to like you in any culture is quite a task, trust me after almost 20 years of marriage i still have problems with my american father in law and my father isn't the greatest with my wife.
regarding the xenophobia, guess it depends on the situation, my wife is the only foreigner in her office and she doesn't work for the office of her company here, her bosses are at the regional office in Taipei and Hong Kong so she isn't in the local reporting chain, that makes it very hard on her. I personally get tired of being the freak show so much so I rarely run races anymore because I just want to run and not be glared at thats why I do my racing on base.
Bottom line don't let some people here call you a loser for whatever reason. you came to Korea, you've stayed, not many people can say that. Those clowns who think you are can stick it!!!! |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| I personally don't think it is worth the time and money needed to become totally fluent in Korean. TBH, it would probably make my life more of a hassle as I would be expected to fall into line with some of the BS Korean social customs I try to avoid. Not knowing how to speak Korean frees me from the crushing obligations of Korean society. Also, I have no doubt my employer would suddenly find more work for me to do, and I would have to attend more mind-numbing 'meetings'. |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Well that's good enough for my no vote.
The proof is in the pudding. |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| candy bar wrote: |
| littlelisa wrote: |
If you're here for more than 5 years and can't sound out hangeul, that's pretty sad (I've met at least one person like this). Otherwise it depends on you, but really, it's going to make your life better.
I can't tell you how much even the bit I know has paid off. It makes life easier and opens up opportunities. |
Sure I can ask the person at the mart for something I don't see on the shelf, but is it really going to open up opportunities that are worth the effort? Wouldn't my time be better invested in say trying to fine tune my teaching skills or getting a second job okayed outside of my regular job?
What if I'm not really that sociable outside of my job?
I see English, English, everywhere. |
Depends on where you live. Seoul, english everywhere. Rural nowhere's ville, you'll be SOL. Kind of need Korean there. But, even then, not that much. I visited a rural town this weekend and spoke some simple Korean to the locals in some shops. Blew them away, actually. Maybe 7 or 8 waygooks living in the town, but doubt they can speak to save their life. Was kind of cool actually. Though, I suck at Korean. |
I think rural dudes have the need and thus the motivation, but unfortunately they lack the things non rural dudes take for granted: schools, lessons, and quality workbooks. Korean is extraordinarily difficult to learn through self study sincethe textbooks I tried using ways implied some kind of teacher in addition to the text. I do know one dude who went out of his way to learn the language, but those dudes either have to be strong independent learners or have very strong reasons to fight through the difficulty curve. It's not to say its impossible, it's just easy to not bother. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| frankhenry wrote: |
| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| frankhenry wrote: |
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| frankhenry wrote: |
LMAO
In the meantime, some other chap is out making extra coin that will be used to further his financial well being while having an enriching and meaningful social and cultural experience that will lead to other great opportunities.  |
Is your definition of meaningful social and cultural experience a night of binge drinking on the weekends and sometimes during the week. Waking up in a delirium about what happened last night. While the person that's studying Korean is able to converse and network with that Korean person and because of that attains a job through which that person couldn't if they hadn't known Korean.
The point is, maybe learning Korean isn't right for you, but don't portray it as something that nobody should strive for. If a person is interested in Korea, then by all means study Korean. If you don't like Korea then don't study it. If you are planning on living in Korea for a long time, then study Korean. If this is just a stop over until you pay your student loans off, then only learn some basics so that you can live more comfortably. |
Hey buddy ole pal,
I don't drink alcohol and I have a large network of Korean friends. I have more work now than I can get around to. |
Good for you. All his points are still valid. |
- so are mine - |
My snide comment was about your scoffing at studying Korean. You insinuate in your post that it is a waste of time with your condescending tone. Both the truth is, don't use your personal experience as a one off to tell others it's a waste of time. Maybe it's a waste of time for you,, but not someone else. It's great to give your opinion, but don't make it sound like your opinion is the only one. |
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frankhenry
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| frankhenry wrote: |
| Ginormousaurus wrote: |
| frankhenry wrote: |
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| frankhenry wrote: |
LMAO
In the meantime, some other chap is out making extra coin that will be used to further his financial well being while having an enriching and meaningful social and cultural experience that will lead to other great opportunities. |
Is your definition of meaningful social and cultural experience a night of binge drinking on the weekends and sometimes during the week. Waking up in a delirium about what happened last night. While the person that's studying Korean is able to converse and network with that Korean person and because of that attains a job through which that person couldn't if they hadn't known Korean.
The point is, maybe learning Korean isn't right for you, but don't portray it as something that nobody should strive for. If a person is interested in Korea, then by all means study Korean. If you don't like Korea then don't study it. If you are planning on living in Korea for a long time, then study Korean. If this is just a stop over until you pay your student loans off, then only learn some basics so that you can live more comfortably. |
Hey buddy ole pal,
I don't drink alcohol and I have a large network of Korean friends. I have more work now than I can get around to. |
Good for you. All his points are still valid. |
- so are mine - |
My snide comment was about your scoffing at studying Korean. You insinuate in your post that it is a waste of time with your condescending tone. Both the truth is, don't use your personal experience as a one off to tell others it's a waste of time. Maybe it's a waste of time for you,, but not someone else. It's great to give your opinion, but don't make it sound like your opinion is the only one. |
I never stated that it's a waste of time for everyone. I definitely wasn't insinuating everyone shouldn't study. I was giving my opinion of two of the various types of people who live in Korea. Neither of these two represent everyone.
There's also another type of person that lives in Korea. He takes something that someone else states and imagines it to be what he wants it to be. Of course you have the right to your own opinion, even if it's wrong.
Chip on your shoulder? |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:26 am Post subject: |
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[quote="frankhenry"][quote="nicwr2002"][quote="frankhenry"][quote="Ginormousaurus"][quote="frankhenry"]
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| frankhenry wrote: |
LMAO
while having an enriching and meaningful social and cultural experience that will lead to other great opportunities. |
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Do you know what insinuate means? Right you didn't explicitly say that it's a waste of time, but it was insinuated in the way you wrote your reply. |
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frankhenry
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:06 am Post subject: |
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[quote="nicwr2002"][quote="frankhenry"][quote="nicwr2002"][quote="frankhenry"][quote="Ginormousaurus"]
| frankhenry wrote: |
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| frankhenry wrote: |
LMAO
while having an enriching and meaningful social and cultural experience that will lead to other great opportunities. |
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Do you know what insinuate means? Right you didn't explicitly say that it's a waste of time, but it was insinuated in the way you wrote your reply. |
OK, first thing I'm going to do is apologize to you because I probably have offended you with some of my remarks. I sincerely apologize.
But how can the "while having an enriching and meaningful social and cultural experience that will lead to other great opportunities" in any way insinuate, be taken, or translated into no person should study Korean. |
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frankhenry
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I know what insinuate means.
The statement I made is exactly as I explained it to be, nothing more, nothing less. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
| I personally don't think it is worth the time and money needed to become totally fluent in Korean. TBH, it would probably make my life more of a hassle as I would be expected to fall into line with some of the BS Korean social customs I try to avoid. Not knowing how to speak Korean frees me from the crushing obligations of Korean society. Also, I have no doubt my employer would suddenly find more work for me to do, and I would have to attend more mind-numbing 'meetings'. |
Now that is interesting, why would knowing Korean tie you to the "crushing obligations of Korean society" and what are those obligations anyway?
I know Korean and it has not limited me, in fact in Korea it gave far more options. Guess we all have different perspectives. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
| I personally don't think it is worth the time and money needed to become totally fluent in Korean. TBH, it would probably make my life more of a hassle as I would be expected to fall into line with some of the BS Korean social customs I try to avoid. Not knowing how to speak Korean frees me from the crushing obligations of Korean society. Also, I have no doubt my employer would suddenly find more work for me to do, and I would have to attend more mind-numbing 'meetings'. |
Now that is interesting, why would knowing Korean tie you to the "crushing obligations of Korean society" and what are those obligations anyway?
I know Korean and it has not limited me, in fact in Korea it gave far more options. Guess we all have different perspectives. |
The weddings, family functions, work meetings, kowtowing, ass-kissing, sitting-on-the-floor-drinking-soju BS I can get out of because I don't speak Korean well enough. You give Koreans an inch and they will take a mile! I guess you were really into Korean culture, but I am the opposite. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:40 am Post subject: |
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WOW...ok
I did not kowtow nor ass-kiss because I spoke Korean. In fact, interactions became far easier for me because I spoke the language.
Sitting on the floor, well that happens in many asian countries and I never really saw it as an issue and I do not see how not speaking the language impacts this.
Drinking soju..how does speaking Korean change your choice to drink it or not?
Family functions...well that depends I suppose but I found that speaking Korean made those more interesting as instead of sitting in the corner like some language zombie or waiting for my wife to translate, I could actually talk with people on my own. However, family functions are something that many people find boring or irritating and I can understand one not wanting to attend them!
Anyway, we do have different views on this and I completely respect and understand your side of things. |
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