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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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 Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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There are racists everywhere, but here's the difference. It Western countries it ruffles feathers and there's a backlash. For every Rush Limbaugh there's a John Stewart. For every racist there's five people calling him out on it. The public school system targets intolerance, as do labour unions and universities. Here there is a notable absence of outrage.
In the States we recently had that stupid 'Asian Girlz' video. It caused so much outrage that it was taken down from youtube and the band's name is now dirt. The Asiana incident where the tv station made a joke about the pilots' names?. Four senior producers were fired. But in Korea racist programming goes on and on and noone seems bothered by it. Psy can rant about 'kojangee', MBC can make hateful documentaries, immigration imposes xenophonic visa rules, black people get depicted as savages in commercials...and nobody bats an eye. That is a fundamental difference.
But apologists will be apologists. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| There are racists everywhere, but here's the difference. It Western countries it ruffles feathers and there's a backlash. |
It ruffles feathers here too. Remember the Youman incident? There was an immediate and almost universal backlash to the comments from the Korean player.
You have notable celebrities like T and Tiger JK speaking out against racism. Hines Ward caused a conversation within Korea about double standards. Ads that do cause enough of a stir result in execs being forced to apologize or getting terminated.
Now is it as strident as the US? No. But then again, Korea doesn't have the US' history of race. Expecting them to be as aware of such things is a bit much.
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| That is a fundamental difference. |
It's been my experience that anyone who says "Yes, we do the same thing in our country, but here's what makes it not as bad in my country" is doing some mental and ethical gymnastics. It sounds an awful lot like "Our country is special, please try to understand."
You may have people complain about depictions about Muslims and blacks and Asians in the media, but on and on it goes with Muslim actors always being given roles as terrorists, blacks always as gangbangers, Asians always as kungfu villains, Latinos as some Ese gangsta.
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| But apologists will be apologists.Confused |
Sure you didn't just apologize for your own country there? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The apologists stumbled out of the gate. But I think they nevertheless decisively won this thread. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
There are racists everywhere, but here's the difference. It Western countries it ruffles feathers and there's a backlash. For every Rush Limbaugh there's a John Stewart. For every racist there's five people calling him out on it. The public school system targets intolerance, as do labour unions and universities. Here there is a notable absence of outrage.
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^^ I agree with much of that. I wonder how many of these "apologists" (not sure I like the word), would raise a child here.
| Steelrails wrote: |
Hines Ward caused a conversation within Korea about double standards.
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That's a good reference. What his mother said was even better. Basically something like, her son would never have made it in Korea, and she was glad she took him to the U.S. |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I think the quibble is a semantic one. Other countries may be more tolerant than Korea, but that doesn't make them actually tolerant, which is what some posters claim. Same with being 'civilized' or whatever other term people use to put other countries, usually their own or other western nations, above Korea. They may be more 'civilized', but that doesn't make them actually 'civilized'. Being less rude doesn't make them polite. Changing seats on the Titanic.
I think some posters in their rush to condemn Korea, fail to make that important distinction. |
Some posters but not all - there are some posters that fail to make THAT important distinction as well. We could do this all day, couldn't we?
Last edited by maximmm on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| The apologists stumbled out of the gate. But I think they nevertheless decisively won this thread. |
Wait, is the game over already?! Bah - I always miss out on the fun stuff^^ |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| maximmm wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The apologists stumbled out of the gate. But I think they nevertheless decisively won this thread. |
Wait, is the game over already?! Bah - I always miss out on the fun stuff^^ |
I'd like him to explain how the apologists decisely 'won' this thread. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| maximmm wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The apologists stumbled out of the gate. But I think they nevertheless decisively won this thread. |
Wait, is the game over already?! Bah - I always miss out on the fun stuff^^ |
I'd like him to explain how the apologists decisely 'won' this thread. |
I would as well, the main crux of their argument was 'it was 2009 - it is in the past'. 
And the other old chestnut 'racism exists in the west, so the Koreans have an excuse'
More 'apologista' excusing the Koreans and their bad behaviour.
Last edited by robbie_davies on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| maximmm wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The apologists stumbled out of the gate. But I think they nevertheless decisively won this thread. |
Wait, is the game over already?! Bah - I always miss out on the fun stuff^^ |
I'd like him to explain how the apologists decisely 'won' this thread. |
I think he's saying that both sides were apologists in this thread. Each apologizing for their own side. "Korea apologists" apologizing for racism Korea. "Back Home apologists" apologizing for racism back home. Hence, the apologists won. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
| maximmm wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The apologists stumbled out of the gate. But I think they nevertheless decisively won this thread. |
Wait, is the game over already?! Bah - I always miss out on the fun stuff^^ |
I'd like him to explain how the apologists decisely 'won' this thread. |
I think he's saying that both sides were apologists in this thread. Each apologizing for their own side. "Korea apologists" apologizing for racism Korea. "Back Home apologists" apologizing for racism back home. Hence, the apologists won. |
Who has apologised for 'racism' back home?
The only defender of racist behaviour around here is you. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Scorpion wrote: |
| maximmm wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| The apologists stumbled out of the gate. But I think they nevertheless decisively won this thread. |
Wait, is the game over already?! Bah - I always miss out on the fun stuff^^ |
I'd like him to explain how the apologists decisely 'won' this thread. |
I think he's saying that both sides were apologists in this thread. Each apologizing for their own side. "Korea apologists" apologizing for racism Korea. "Back Home apologists" apologizing for racism back home. Hence, the apologists won. |
Who has apologised for 'racism' back home?
The only defender of racist behaviour around here is you. |
Oh really?
| Quote: |
There are racists everywhere, but here's the difference. It Western countries it ruffles feathers and there's a backlash. For every Rush Limbaugh there's a John Stewart. For every racist there's five people calling him out on it. The public school system targets intolerance, as do labour unions and universities. Here there is a notable absence of outrage.
In the States we recently had that stupid 'Asian Girlz' video. It caused so much outrage that it was taken down from youtube and the band's name is now dirt. The Asiana incident where the tv station made a joke about the pilots' names?. Four senior producers were fired. But in Korea racist programming goes on and on and noone seems bothered by it. Psy can rant about 'kojangee', MBC can make hateful documentaries, immigration imposes xenophonic visa rules, black people get depicted as savages in commercials...and nobody bats an eye. That is a fundamental difference.
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The way it sounds, Western Racism is okay and not as bad, simply because AFTER the fact there is the whole apology tour. Seems like they're trying to mitigate the nastiness of it.
Sounds like apologistadom to me.
If Koreans were to bow down and do their usual apology routine, they'd be taken for being a phoney joke. If one of us tried to say "Look how sorry Korea is over racism, they bow down always." That would be called "apologizing".
Same here. Apologists on both sides. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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After 13 years here, and some more in East Asia, Id say to everyone lets get bigger nads. I was talked down to by the bus driver (which is rare actually) and I put him in his place. Im an educated, well-travelled, etc (if I may say so) individual and if the grarled 50s bus driver doesnt like me, its no problem
as long as they dont touch my finances or my well being, I dont care.
Plenty of people want your money, company, or your values.
fucq the others.
yes, it gets on my nerves sometimes, but please..you dig? |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Oh really? |
Yes, really.
| Quote: |
The way it sounds, Western Racism is okay and not as bad, simply because AFTER the fact there is the whole apology tour. Seems like they're trying to mitigate the nastiness of it.
Sounds like apologistadom to me. |
He is not saying that at all, he is saying that racism gets tackled and there are actual laws against being a racist. I don't see that as apologising for racism at all, it is a strange apologetic stance, he is not even denying that racism doesn't exist in the west. That is the sort of thing a Korean would claim about their dump.
| Quote: |
| If Koreans were to bow down and do their usual apology routine, they'd be taken for being a phoney joke. If one of us tried to say "Look how sorry Korea is over racism, they bow down always." That would be called "apologizing". |
Nobody would do that at all, people would say 'about bloody time too' Who wants to listen to some halfwit yabber on about pure bloodlines, Korean manual dexterity and gets offended because you state that kimchi stinks of shit?
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| Same here. Apologists on both sides. |
One side are apologists by the looks of it. |
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Old fat expat
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
Location: a caravan of dust, making for a windy prairie
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:07 am Post subject: |
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robbie_davies:
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| you state that kimchi stinks of shit |
I've had the fishy kind and the ginger kind. They were red and I prefer the ginger one. I've had the white kind. OK. Not had the one you're describing, I'm guessing it's brown. Is it regional?  |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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I would never condemn a nation (any nation) based on the commercials I see on television. |
So what would convince you that one nation as a group had a slightly more tolerant attitude, culturally, towards racial stereotyping than another? When any evidence can be dismissed as being down to individuals or small groups? Maybe some kind of official poll, of the kind Urbanmyth favors, when they ask 1000 people (none of whom are under any obligation to tell the truth)? I suspect in Korea's case your truthful answer to the question would be 'nothing.' |
Policies, laws, general outlook.
This typically coming from exposure to mass immigration and the pressures this puts on society to change. All this being said, tolerance and open mindedness (is that a word??) are interesting in that they can be damn relative! I mean just because people avoid voicing their prejudices in public it does not mean those same prejudices are gone nor less vitriolic. It just means they are under the surface.
Korea (much like many other nations that have not been exposed to mass immigration) has had and still has growing pains with regards to how they deal with or view foreigners. I never debated that. What I will debate Ed is that racism and / or bigotry are not easily measured because like many other such things, they are personal views and attitudes that can be hard to gage or measure.
A point can be made that even countries with multi-culturalism or mass immigration have not moved much in terms of attitude towards what are considered outsiders or immigrants (ex: France where I lived foe a few years). Some have better surface attitudes but have some pretty nasty under currents that have an impact anyway (ex: Canada, esp outside the larger cities).
I know this will not satisfy you Ed and thats fine. We all have our own take on this. |
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