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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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 Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:47 am Post subject: |
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I on the other hand prefer to live in the reality that most of the world doesn't give a crap about KPop beyond "Whatever happened to that guy Psy?" and thinks dog is Korea's greatest world cuisine. Nobody cares about Korean TV shows and KPop stars beyond Koreaboos and the latest viral video that people forget 10 minutes later.
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also Nobody cares about a bunch of 20 somethings coming to this country and complaining. so why are you so up in arms every time the 'bashers' speak up? It's like the greatest threat this country faces is western college graduates coming here complaining about crap.. nobody really cares about your stupid crusade to silence /counter any and ALL criticism from non-koreans |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
| Dark skinned people and foreigners are often perceived as dirty and so phobias run rampant. For a sense of humor, they might mock the dirty one in a sitcom. The thing is Korean people are also dirty and stinky since they are humans and it shows in their grimy polluted streets and then all the OCD teeth brushing and odd behaviors attempting to make up for percieved shortcomings. Their high stress level over such inferiority complexs makes it all seem far worse than it actually is. Since they are still so far behind culturally or broken in that department, I'm thinking maybe they just need to close the country to foriengers and immitate English education and US military defense just like they do with a lot of other things like food. |
Yooo, how drunk were you when you wrote this? |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| aq8knyus wrote: |
There are many thousands of people in countries that love Korean music, film and tv. A good portion of those find the use of blackface wrong and offensive.
When you cook up your next response why dont you try and tell us all why a Korean performer putting on blackface, munching down on a watermelon and acting like fool is anything other than racist. |
Fine, but will you acknowledge that Rain is a world star and that KPop is sweeping the globe? That everyone around the world knows the savory goodness of BiBimBap and if it weren't for that Abe and his stupid Shrine, Dokdo would be Korean in the East Sea thanks to the New York Times ads that everyone in America has read?
I on the other hand prefer to live in the reality that most of the world doesn't give a crap about KPop beyond "Whatever happened to that guy Psy?" and thinks dog is Korea's greatest world cuisine. Nobody cares about Korean TV shows and KPop stars beyond Koreaboos and the latest viral video that people forget 10 minutes later.
I have no idea if the watermelon is even linked to black folks simply because in Korea, the people here scarf watermelon (just like pig feet, chitlins, and fried chicken) that it could be purely coincidental. I will say that no one should ever do blackface simply from a corporate/legalistic view that even if its done as part of a multiracial comedy bit, someone will get offended and people should know better. If it wasn't coincidence and it was intentional, then fire the people and have a teachable moment.
But claiming that black folks the world over are outraged over Korean blackface is a bunch of Martin Luther Not. |
K culture has a presence all over the world, it may be niche, but is known to many, many people. When I said black people all over the world I was referring to people who live in france, brazil, morocco etc. I at no point suggested a statistical majority of the planet's black population had sent a letter of complaint?
The numbers of people who complained about the MBC piece or 시커먼스 show that enough people of all races do care. That and there are many Koreans themselves who have a problem with blackface.
In each case it has been used in a way that is derogatory in order to get a laugh. Africans in particular are frequently depicted as uneducated savages. It not a clash of cultures or a misunderstanding, it is simply wrong. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
If someone wants to be against blackface, fine. They probably have good cause for doing so. All that is asked is that this is truly about being against blackface, not about "See! See! Look at Koreans being bad!". Given the lack of threads on yellowface or blackface back home, I'm forced to conclude that this is more about having an axe to grind with Korea than any genuine disgust towards blackface.
If you're one of those people who laughed at the Asian pilot names for Asiana or doesn't care about Two and a Half Men doing yellowface and have a "just laugh at each other" mentality, then fine. That's consistent. But don't tell Asian Americans to "take a joke" when it comes to mocking Asian accents, names, and doing yellowface and then get apoplectic over Koreans doing blackface. And the greater your anger at Koreans, the more you should be angry at yellowface. Be consistent is all. Or just say "I think its okay to make fun of chinky-dinky Asians but its not okay for them to make fun of us/blacks" at least that has the virtue of honesty.
Frankly I think the whole spectacle is pretty sad. 5 years ago there might have been excuses for this, but after all the bruhaha there really shouldn't be any cause for this. Even if Koreans don't "get it" and I don't necessarily believe that they should, from a sheer competency in programming and having people look over these things angle there is no reason that this should take place. |
I agree, yellowface is every bit as wrong. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
| Dark skinned people and foreigners are often perceived as dirty and so phobias run rampant. For a sense of humor, they might mock the dirty one in a sitcom. The thing is Korean people are also dirty and stinky since they are humans and it shows in their grimy polluted streets and then all the OCD teeth brushing and odd behaviors attempting to make up for percieved shortcomings. Their high stress level over such inferiority complexs makes it all seem far worse than it actually is. Since they are still so far behind culturally or broken in that department, I'm thinking maybe they just need to close the country to foriengers and immitate English education and US military defense just like they do with a lot of other things like food. |
Yooo, how drunk were you when you wrote this? |
He had to be considering alcohol is the elixir of truth. I say this as somebody who has been in a Korean family for almost a decade. I love them and they are somewhat different than other families but not much. These attitudes they've learned from their culture really hurts them and they can't relax at all even though they want to..badly. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Frankly I think the whole spectacle is pretty sad. 5 years ago there might have been excuses for this, but after all the bruhaha there really shouldn't be any cause for this. Even if Koreans don't "get it" and I don't necessarily believe that they should, from a sheer competency in programming and having people look over these things angle there is no reason that this should take place. |
This is very true and it's what has always confused me about Korea. It's the same as seeing a Hakwon with a name like "America English Improving Center" and watching 8 Native English speakers walk out of it. Then asking them if they have any idea how a school that is consistently employing native speakers couldn't just ask one of them if the title was correct or not.
I fluctuate between thinking it's an honest mistake and a matter of pride and thinking that it's just a passive aggressive way to thumb the foreigner in the eye when the foreigner dares correct anything.
Remember that Kpop may not be a worldwide phenomenon but it is constantly being promoted to international audiences. So the people that are complaining about foreigners sticking their noses into Korea's business and culture need to wake up and realize that some of those foreigners have been invited to observe and critique this stuff. If the Korean Kpop companies want to keep it domestic then that's fine, but these days the push is on for foreign fans. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| postfundie wrote: |
also Nobody cares about a bunch of 20 somethings coming to this country and complaining. so why are you so up in arms every time the 'bashers' speak up? It's like the greatest threat this country faces is western college graduates coming here complaining about crap.. nobody really cares about your stupid crusade to silence /counter any and ALL criticism from non-koreans |
In other words, you don't want a discussion, you want an echo chamber.
We're talking about whether KPop is known the world over and people the world over get outraged by these acts. There's no crusade here to silence any criticism. But if we are so outraged over racism and double standards, then we have to be just as vigilant against racism towards Koreans as we are about racism by Koreans against us. Unless its not so much about racism as it is about coming out on top. |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Multiculturalism on campus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on0mT8MQ-Wg
September 2013, two University of Alabama sororities rejected an African American student because of her race. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| There's no crusade here to silence any criticism. But if we are so outraged over racism and double standards, then we have to be just as vigilant against racism towards Koreans as we are about racism by Koreans against us. |
Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! However this is not what you are doing. You have stated that foreigners who live here are basically guests in the country and do not have the right to complain. You are the one who wants an echo chamber and for Korea to remain racially homogenous. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| postfundie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There's no crusade here to silence any criticism. But if we are so outraged over racism and double standards, then we have to be just as vigilant against racism towards Koreans as we are about racism by Koreans against us. |
Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! However this is not what you are doing. You have stated that foreigners who live here are basically guests in the country and do not have the right to complain. You are the one who wants an echo chamber and for Korea to remain racially homogenous. |
What I have said is that ultimately that the problems here are ultimately Korean problems and should be solved by the Korean people, certainly not done to satisfy the whims of transient residents who have little allegiance to the country. I don't believe that short-term workers in ANY nation should come there with an attitude of remaking their host country's culture and society from the top-down on their own terms, which in a roundabout way is what some people are advocating. Now in issues directly relating to our jobs and issues that deal with us, then of course we have the right to complain. For example, I may not agree with those who complain about CBCs or HIV checks, but I do believe it is well within their right to voice concerns.
And I have NEVER called for Korea to be racially homogenous, so either quote me or retract the claim.
| Quote: |
| Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! |
Really? Then how come I never see you challenging posters who make bigoted claims and statements regarding Koreans? Just because you "agree" doesn't mean you attach the same value to both things. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| postfundie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There's no crusade here to silence any criticism. But if we are so outraged over racism and double standards, then we have to be just as vigilant against racism towards Koreans as we are about racism by Koreans against us. |
Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! However this is not what you are doing. You have stated that foreigners who live here are basically guests in the country and do not have the right to complain. You are the one who wants an echo chamber and for Korea to remain racially homogenous. |
What I have said is that ultimately that the problems here are ultimately Korean problems and should be solved by the Korean people, certainly not done to satisfy the whims of transient residents who have little allegiance to the country. I don't believe that short-term workers in ANY nation should come there with an attitude of remaking their host country's culture and society from the top-down on their own terms, which in a roundabout way is what some people are advocating. Now in issues directly relating to our jobs and issues that deal with us, then of course we have the right to complain. For example, I may not agree with those who complain about CBCs or HIV checks, but I do believe it is well within their right to voice concerns.
And I have NEVER called for Korea to be racially homogenous, so either quote me or retract the claim.
| Quote: |
| Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! |
Really? Then how come I never see you challenging posters who make bigoted claims and statements regarding Koreans? Just because you "agree" doesn't mean you attach the same value to both things. |
You really think that if a transient foreigner told a K pop artist that wearing black face was a bad idea that would be imposing our culture on Korea? I think most K pop artists have an appreciation for hip hop and have been pretty heavily influenced by it. I don't think they want to offend their foreign fans. So why do you say transient foreigners shouldn't give feedback on this stuff? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| postfundie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There's no crusade here to silence any criticism. But if we are so outraged over racism and double standards, then we have to be just as vigilant against racism towards Koreans as we are about racism by Koreans against us. |
Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! However this is not what you are doing. You have stated that foreigners who live here are basically guests in the country and do not have the right to complain. You are the one who wants an echo chamber and for Korea to remain racially homogenous. |
What I have said is that ultimately that the problems here are ultimately Korean problems and should be solved by the Korean people, certainly not done to satisfy the whims of transient residents who have little allegiance to the country. I don't believe that short-term workers in ANY nation should come there with an attitude of remaking their host country's culture and society from the top-down on their own terms, which in a roundabout way is what some people are advocating. Now in issues directly relating to our jobs and issues that deal with us, then of course we have the right to complain. For example, I may not agree with those who complain about CBCs or HIV checks, but I do believe it is well within their right to voice concerns.
And I have NEVER called for Korea to be racially homogenous, so either quote me or retract the claim.
| Quote: |
| Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! |
Really? Then how come I never see you challenging posters who make bigoted claims and statements regarding Koreans? Just because you "agree" doesn't mean you attach the same value to both things. |
You really think that if a transient foreigner told a K pop artist that wearing black face was a bad idea that would be imposing our culture on Korea? I think most K pop artists have an appreciation for hip hop and have been pretty heavily influenced by it. I don't think they want to offend their foreign fans. So why do you say transient foreigners shouldn't give feedback on this stuff? |
I would put this in the category of "things that affect us" and I myself said the whole thing was pretty sad and should not have happened.
I'm just taking issue with the fact that some out there seem to expect Korea and all the NETs out there to stamp out this act of racism, but when it comes to say, yellowface back home or discriminatory hiring practices here towards non-whites there isn't this same sense of urgency, and in some cases of yellowface/Asian jokes people's response is "lighten up". I'm forced to conclude that its not racism they are against, its just trying to find something "Korea" did wrong. |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| postfundie wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There's no crusade here to silence any criticism. But if we are so outraged over racism and double standards, then we have to be just as vigilant against racism towards Koreans as we are about racism by Koreans against us. |
Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! However this is not what you are doing. You have stated that foreigners who live here are basically guests in the country and do not have the right to complain. You are the one who wants an echo chamber and for Korea to remain racially homogenous. |
What I have said is that ultimately that the problems here are ultimately Korean problems and should be solved by the Korean people, certainly not done to satisfy the whims of transient residents who have little allegiance to the country. I don't believe that short-term workers in ANY nation should come there with an attitude of remaking their host country's culture and society from the top-down on their own terms, which in a roundabout way is what some people are advocating. Now in issues directly relating to our jobs and issues that deal with us, then of course we have the right to complain. For example, I may not agree with those who complain about CBCs or HIV checks, but I do believe it is well within their right to voice concerns.
And I have NEVER called for Korea to be racially homogenous, so either quote me or retract the claim.
| Quote: |
| Oh I would agree that we need to be vigilant against westerners who come here and are racist against Koreasn. Absolutely! |
Really? Then how come I never see you challenging posters who make bigoted claims and statements regarding Koreans? Just because you "agree" doesn't mean you attach the same value to both things. |
You really think that if a transient foreigner told a K pop artist that wearing black face was a bad idea that would be imposing our culture on Korea? I think most K pop artists have an appreciation for hip hop and have been pretty heavily influenced by it. I don't think they want to offend their foreign fans. So why do you say transient foreigners shouldn't give feedback on this stuff? |
I would put this in the category of "things that affect us" and I myself said the whole thing was pretty sad and should not have happened.
I'm just taking issue with the fact that some out there seem to expect Korea and all the NETs out there to stamp out this act of racism, but when it comes to say, yellowface back home or discriminatory hiring practices here towards non-whites there isn't this same sense of urgency, and in some cases of yellowface/Asian jokes people's response is "lighten up". I'm forced to conclude that its not racism they are against, its just trying to find something "Korea" did wrong. |
Are you sure that the focus on Korea is not a result of this being a board for ESL teachers in Korea? You aren't getting off topic here because that stuff is relevant, but the assumptions you are making about people that are upset about racist things that happen in Korea are actually pretty offensive. You don't know how the posters on here would react to that type of behavior, and it's unfair for you to make that kind of a judgement. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you sure that the focus on Korea is not a result of this being a board for ESL teachers in Korea? You aren't getting off topic here because that stuff is relevant, but the assumptions you are making about people that are upset about racist things that happen in Korea are actually pretty offensive. You don't know how the posters on here would react to that type of behavior, and it's unfair for you to make that kind of a judgement. |
The proof is in the pudding. When an Asian-American posts about facing discrimination you don't see the same people coming out of the woodwork. When someone posts something offensive or bigoted about Koreans, many of those who scream 'Korean racism' the loudest are silent. It's like certain figures and their supporters back home who will go ballistic over any anti-black slight, but when it comes to reverse racism, will be nowhere to be seen. |
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