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South Korea moves to restrict online overseas shopping
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atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:47 pm Post subject:

Deja wrote:

atwood wrote:

Isn't there a German Amazon, Amazon.de? I know there's a UK one

There is, but I was trying to make a point. If you can't get something shipped from US to Germany, what chances do less organized and wealthy countries have?

liveinkorea316 wrote:

By importing products directly online Koreans can avoid significant taxes such as customs and tariffs and sales taxes which are all legal and in accordance with international norms.

How are you avoiding customs ans sales taxes as an individual? Whenever I ordered something bigger, I was usually slapped with 10% customs, and VAT. From the US, for US goods. As a company, I can import those items with 0-1% customs.
I don't get it.

What can't you get shipped to Germany from the US? I know lots of people in the U.S. who order from Amazon UK to take advantage of lower pricing. Is it that different going the other way?

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:08 pm Post subject:

What's more interesting are the comments by Koreans below the article. Most think the idea of restrictions are BS. With an ever higher cost of living going up here, consumers will look to save money any way they can. Ironically, with free trade, duties and import taxes should be cheaper meaning Korean companies can buy in bulk, demand volume discounts and sell it more cheaply. Usually free trade doesn't apply so much to the individual as it does to companies. So, the price should be comparable. If it's more expensive, then there's something either wrong in the supply chain or something wrong with the government meddling with red tape and bureaucracy.

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject:

radcon wrote:

wishfullthinkng wrote:

as for the person who was complaining about the chaebol trying to screw them over, it's not the chaebol. point your finger at the greedy middle men who's business it is to buy things wholesale and mark it up a few hundred times the cost.

Im in Korea and I want to buy a Ralph Lauren polo shirt. I go to Hyundai Department store (chaebol), Shinsegae Dept store (chaebol) and Lotte Dept store(chaebol). Now I want a tv. I go to the Samsung electronics store and the LG electronics store and Hi Mart (owned by Lotte). Prices are very high at all of these places.
Last Christmas season the amount of tvs bought in the US and shipped to Korea was crazy. Now Samsung says they will cancel their world wide warranty to punish those Koreans who bought their tvs in the US.

Koreans should punish them by buying from a rival company instead, so long as the warranties are respected. But, Koreans will have to take a look at why costs are more here. Is it ineffecient supply chain networks, bloated office worker staff, overly generous payouts to Samsung workers, government taxes, red tape and the like? However, a massive restructuring will be quite painful if it does happen. The cheabols should have less power and small businesses should be allowed to rise up by the government getting off their backs.

dairyairy

Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject:

Weigookin74 wrote:

What's more interesting are the comments by Koreans below the article. Most think the idea of restrictions are BS. With an ever higher cost of living going up here, consumers will look to save money any way they can. Ironically, with free trade, duties and import taxes should be cheaper meaning Korean companies can buy in bulk, demand volume discounts and sell it more cheaply. Usually free trade doesn't apply so much to the individual as it does to companies. So, the price should be comparable. If it's more expensive, then there's something either wrong in the supply chain or something wrong with the government meddling with red tape and bureaucracy.

But they continue to vote for elected officials who openly favor anti-consumer policies. The current mayor of Seoul is one of the worst offenders but the issue isn't even being raised in the campaign.

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject:

dairyairy wrote:

Weigookin74 wrote:

Isn't that a universal constant? How many folks vote for the wrong candidate who espouses the wrong views on these issues simply because the cameras and talking heads tell you to vote for these people? Any recent western elections that have had the same trend? People need to wake up and become better self educated, be more aware of the issues, and begin to vote for the right candidates regardless of their "style" or media endorsements or lack thereof. I'm talking more about western democracies than I am about here. But, the principle does seem to be universal.

Deja

Joined: 18 Mar 2011

Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

What can't you get shipped to Germany from the US? I know lots of people in the U.S. who order from Amazon UK to take advantage of lower pricing. Is it that different going the other way?

UK might be different, especially with the US (Commonwealth thing?).
I know I looked up some cocoa from US Amazon, and some SSDs, and neither would ship to Germany (Amazon, or their subseller didn't ship them out of the US). I know it's not the same for all items, or even for the same item sold by two different Amazon subsellers, but the point is not every seller will ship out of the US.

Amazon UK cheaper than the US? Really? For what kinds of items?

jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:59 am Post subject:

atwood wrote:

One way Samsung gets away with high prices in Korea is its vaunted after-service. But what consumers don't realize is Samsung doesn't have to pay strict attention to QC because they've already built the repairs into the price of the TV or computer.

That's actually a good point. I love having that extra battery for things like cameras and phones. OEM batteries are pretty expensive. The price you pay if you get lower prices is less 'little' things like the extra bat, or cover-cases, and cheap repairs even after the supposed warranty expires. I remember getting an old camera repaired for a mere 20,000-won, no way it would be that cheap back home.

Those little things do add up.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:05 am Post subject:

Deja wrote:

atwood wrote:

What can't you get shipped to Germany from the US? I know lots of people in the U.S. who order from Amazon UK to take advantage of lower pricing. Is it that different going the other way?

The U.S. is not part of the commonwealth. Certain CDs are cheaper at Amazon UK and some other European distributors. That's all I've evr shopped for that way.

What you're describing is sellers who don't want to ship international, probably small operations who don't have the time or manpower to do the extra work involved, not some government policy that's overly punitive of overseas shopping.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:13 am Post subject:

jvalmer wrote:

atwood wrote:

That's some of it, but the big thing in my mind is I'm paying a lot more, including any extras, and getting an inferior product that chances are is going to break down and need servicing. Koreans have been conditioned to believing in that, that it's worth paying extra to have future service included, in essence purchasing product insurance, even for simple appliances that rarely break down.

Of course, that most Koreans probably are unable to do even simple maintenance on home appliances makes it more understandable from their point of view. Regardless, Samsung/LG et al have their hooks in the consumer here and are draining them like a vampire on steroids.

Deja

Joined: 18 Mar 2011

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

Certain CDs are cheaper at Amazon UK and some other European distributors. That's all I've evr shopped for that way.

Interesting, that isn't anything I would expect to be cheaper in Europe.

Quote:

What you're describing is sellers who don't want to ship international, probably small operations who don't have the time or manpower to do the extra work involved, not some government policy that's overly punitive of overseas shopping.

Partially, I am sure you're right (i.e. for some distributors).
But I also know that in some cases, they don't want to ship due to problems they had with a particular country (Italy is a "superb" example of this).
I also notice that when some HK sellers estimate shipping, Germany fares worse than Balkans (which is not part of the EU for most part). I am sure that has nothing to do with us being in better shape, or shipping being faster - rather, the German (or EU) customs giving more problems.

Of course, I cannot confirm this, otherwise, I'd be able to prove EU countries are breaking FTA agreements Smile

But, too many little things add up to that idea.

radcon

Joined: 23 May 2011

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject:

As an online seller, I have stopped shipping to Germany. The market is large and rich, but German customs is very fascist and German customers are extremely demanding.

nicwr2002

Joined: 17 Aug 2011

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject:

Deja wrote:

Unposter wrote:

As for the current bill, I could see something where overseas online purchases will be assessed tariffs. Probably, online shopping has a comparative advantage in that the same taxes are not being applied and domestic businesses are pointing out the unfairness of it.

Quite untrue. The businesses pay a low FTA-negotiated customs. They pay VAT, but everyone pays VAT, unless they order reeealy small things (or are foreigners, who are just ignored by the customs, so as to avoid using English Wink

). When I import via online orders, I am hit with a full customs fee, not FTA one.

nicwr2002 wrote:

[quote=Deja]Which site do they block???

The point is everything in Korea is at least 2x higher than the States. Target is the name of a retail store in the States. Try going target . com and see what happens.

I did, and as I said, I can reach the checkout part. I did not try to go further, as I don't have anywhere to ship it to the US Smile

You cannot reach target.com from KO?[/quote]

Well, that is weird that you can reach it but I can't. It always comes up with the screen that says "access denied" when I type it in without my VPN turned on. During Black Friday last year it seemed like there were more sites blocked.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject:

dairyairy wrote:

Weigookin74 wrote:

Well, I think on reason for this, and one reason for Korea's lower productivity inefficiency, is that Koreans value employment most of all. Sure, Homeplus and Emart could can all of its parking garage attendants, ladies in each aisle, and so on, but they would be seen as violating their social compact. Part of the reason these big conglomerates are allowed to prosper is that in return they must provide jobs, its very similar to Japan where the corporation is seen to be as much responsible for employment and well-being as the government. Now, there are of course, still the small-business owners and they do have a voice with the government which is why you see their interests pitted against the conglomerates, but it seems that maintaining employment is always a core concern and that cheap prices on consumer goods are not the be-all end-all of economic policy.

There always needs to be a balance, but given who backs supply-side economics and the results its had in the US, I find myself favoring a balance towards certain protectionist policies. Cheap crap from China doesn't seem to be in the long-term interest of either the American or Korean average citizen.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

dairyairy wrote:

Weigookin74 wrote:

Those parking lot attendants 1) work hard in all kinds of weather and 2) are probably more necessary than one might think considering the parking lot conditions. HomePlus, though, has an electronic system to show where the empty spaces are and so doesn't have many attendants.

I've heard this argument before and think it's as much myth as fact, especially after the IMF. How employment-friendly are companies that start laying off people once they hit 45 years of age?

NohopeSeriously

Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:35 pm Post subject:

dairyairy wrote:

It's not that politicians left or right impose anti-consumerist policies. It's more like politicians here cannot take a stand against anti-consumerism from companies.

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