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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Wrong according to your definition of what is right and wrong? Is downloading a movie wrong? Is sharing your dvd with a friend wrong? Is having everyone come over for a party and showing a movie to them wrong? All of those things are "wrong" according to the law. To clarify, a movie is for personal viewing only according to copyright law. When a law is set up to negatively impact a person, then the law is no good and I wouldn't feel bad for breaking. Therefore, I wouldn't need to make any justification to make myself feel better about it. |
Copyright law is a completely separate issue and has nothing to do with paying your taxes. Start a thread on it if you want to debate its moral implications.
Tax evasion is a serious crime usually resulting in imprisonment. It goes without saying that a democracy wouldn't survive if individual citizens were allowed to decide if they wanted to give some of their money to the government or not. Most responsible adults accept this and cough up.
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| I read an article a while back about the difference between rich people and poor people. The difference was, rich people tend to find a way out of paying debt, while poor people felt a moral obligation to pay debt back in full. I'm not saying that you shouldn't pay back a debt, but I feel people have fallen victim to believing that it is a moral obligation to pay no matter the circumstances |
There are good and bad people in all walks of life. Plenty of poor people don't feel a moral obligation to pay their debts. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| People don't pay their taxes because they're selfish and greedy. |
I think there are some people that don't pay taxes in Korea because they'd have to admit to breaking the law (e.g. E2 holder teaching privately) or admit to a contract violation that could be cause for termination (in the contract they are prohibited from taking a second job), or they're just lazy.
| nicwr2002 wrote: |
Whats the big deal about employing his brother in law? Why is that even a law that he can't employ it? Can someone explain to me the negative effect and the reason why this law was made in the first place? |
Basically the reason the restrictions on home schools (and E2s) are put in place is to give hogwon owners an advantage or a cut.
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So I'm leaving the country and went to the tax office to get a record of my entire time in Korea. The first two years I worked at two different hogwons. Neither of them paid any taxes (which were withheld from my pay). But the bigger takeaway is when I talked about it at the tax office, the worker wasn't surprised or bothered.
I doubt the paid taxes for any of their workers, and both of the hogwons are still operating - probably still not paying any taxes. In Canada or other countries I'd expect them to be investigated; here nothing will happen. |
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FriendlyDaegu
Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| FriendlyDaegu wrote: |
| I worked with a few hagwons a while back (not English), and the stuff I learned would blow the minds of business grads or law book thumpers. |
Like what? You can't write something like that without giving details  |
Sure.. I was dating an owner, and since I was fresh out of business classes I was interested in looking into making her and her friends' schools run better.
They kept a set of books and receipts just for the Education inspector, who would call a couple days before to give time to prepare. This guy did not ask many questions as long as you were on good terms with the hagwon ass'n. One worker would spend a whole day filling out receipts that were in line with fee requirements. Same thing for taxes, I assume.
The most stressed out I saw one owner was when the ass'n leader was upset over political comments the owner made online. The whole structure was highly political and the ass'n had many ways to make sure owners stay in line. The winners of all the local student competitions were from schools with the most juice in the ass'n. Schools paid up to attend, even more to win. Winning attracted more moms to sign up for lessons.
Another owner was married to a bigwig music professor who had connections with one of the SKY school music programs. The best way to gain acceptance for your kid was to take the guy's private piano lessons. If you couldn't afford that, the second best way was to send your kid to the wife's hagwon, which was not even a music school.
Point being, there's lots of layers to running a school 'the Korean way'. You can probably sidestep all of that, but you'd need to be really good at what you do. Following all the relevant laws and business/accounting principles is not as beneficial here as one would think. What I gathered was, not making waves and being on good terms with the right people is more important.
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Tax evasion is a serious crime usually resulting in imprisonment. |
Are we still talking about Korea? I pay enough taxes to make a grown man cry, but all of my well-to-do Korean friends think I'm nuts for not hiding my income. I haven't seen anyone hauled off for tax evasion. I'd bet that Korea has the wealthiest and highest rate of property owning infants and toddlers in the world. If you want to take a stand, it should be on ethical issues, not legal ones. Paying or not paying taxes is what the poor do. The rich get their taxes as close to zero as possible through methods available at a price. The system gets rigged against the poor since the rich and the lawmakers are tied at the hip. The goal is to keep the money flowing upward. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="edwardcatflap"]
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Um maybe because it's breaking the law. Maybe because the money goes towards providing support, help and services everyone uses. And don't give me that crap about not paying taxes because you don't approve of the way the democratically elected government spends your money. People who don't pay their taxes do so because they're selfish and greedy. End of story. |
Because you said this, I said what I said about copyright law. They have very similar consequence for breaking the law. Tax evasion and copyright infringement can both lead to imprisonment, so they are related in terms of consequences. Some people are greedy and some people need to do it to stay afloat and to compete with companies who are allowed subsidies and tax breaks. There is no "end of story." |
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jleblanc
Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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SPARTA!
(I was really getting tired of waiting for someone to finish that. Carry on!) |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Because you said this, I said what I said about copyright law. They have very similar consequence for breaking the law. Tax evasion and copyright infringement can both lead to imprisonment, so they are related in terms of consequences. Some people are greedy and some people need to do it to stay afloat and to compete with companies who are allowed subsidies and tax breaks. There is no "end of story." |
I'm finding it very difficult to think of a case where a person who didn't pay their income tax would have a strong enough sob story to convince a court to let them off.
How about we make the question specific and talk about the OP, who on an income from illegal private lessons of 6 million a month evaded around 1 million a month income tax for an extended period? (I've no idea how long) Would you say that was acceptable behaviour or not? |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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| Because you said this, I said what I said about copyright law. They have very similar consequence for breaking the law. Tax evasion and copyright infringement can both lead to imprisonment, so they are related in terms of consequences. Some people are greedy and some people need to do it to stay afloat and to compete with companies who are allowed subsidies and tax breaks. There is no "end of story." |
I'm finding it very difficult to think of a case where a person who didn't pay their income tax would have a strong enough sob story to convince a court to let them off.
How about we make the question specific and talk about the OP, who on an income from illegal private lessons of 6 million a month evaded around 1 million a month income tax for an extended period? (I've no idea how long) Would you say that was acceptable behaviour or not? |
So, he is making about 70k gross per year. That is not a lot of money. After business lisence fees, business tax, income tax, amd over head that figure will be a lot less. He has wife and a kid as well. They want to save for retirement and probabLy pay for their daughters college and what not. I think it is completely acceptable. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
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Good on you, FDNY.
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Yeah good on you FDNY. So, which of his activities do you think most worthy of praise? Not paying his taxes, posting about illegally employing his brother in law or bragging about how much money he thinks he'll make from a study room? They're all stellar achievements  |
Whats the big deal about employing his brother in law? Why is that even a law that he can't employ it? Can someone explain to me the negative effect and the reason why this law was made in the first place? |
1. it's illegal and he's previously made a point about being put off that Koreans weren't following the law to his liking, so he's a hypocrite on top of trying to be an internet blow-hard
2. The reason it's illegal is because of the type of business it is. You don't have to pay the same kind of tax and other things by running a business out of your home like this, if you want to run a school outside your home and hire whoever you like you can change the nature of your business. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Because you said this, I said what I said about copyright law. They have very similar consequence for breaking the law. Tax evasion and copyright infringement can both lead to imprisonment, so they are related in terms of consequences. Some people are greedy and some people need to do it to stay afloat and to compete with companies who are allowed subsidies and tax breaks. There is no "end of story." |
I'm finding it very difficult to think of a case where a person who didn't pay their income tax would have a strong enough sob story to convince a court to let them off.
How about we make the question specific and talk about the OP, who on an income from illegal private lessons of 6 million a month evaded around 1 million a month income tax for an extended period? (I've no idea how long) Would you say that was acceptable behaviour or not? |
So, he is making about 70k gross per year. That is not a lot of money. After business lisence fees, business tax, income tax, amd over head that figure will be a lot less. He has wife and a kid as well. They want to save for retirement and probabLy pay for their daughters college and what not. I think it is completely acceptable. |
Most of those things are already quite low in Korea.
Everyone has kids, obligations and things they want to do with their money, doesn't give them license to cheat on their taxes. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| So, he is making about 70k gross per year. That is not a lot of money. After business lisence fees, business tax, income tax, amd over head that figure will be a lot less. He has wife and a kid as well. They want to save for retirement and probabLy pay for their daughters college and what not. I think it is completely acceptable. |
OK I give up. You're either some kind of anarchist or you have the mind and sense of responsibility of a small child. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ^^I'm not sure about the OP. But, when you're treated as someone that doesn't belong in Korea, it's hard to care much about it. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not sure about the OP. But, when you're treated as someone that doesn't belong in Korea, it's hard to care much about it. |
People say the same kind of thing about living in their own countries e.g. 'the government doesn't do anything for people like me etc...' 'They'll just spend it on fighting wars etc.. etc... It's the easiest thing in the world to find a whole bunch of reasons why you think you should keep all your cash for yourself. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So, he is making about 70k gross per year. That is not a lot of money. After business lisence fees, business tax, income tax, amd over head that figure will be a lot less. He has wife and a kid as well. They want to save for retirement and probabLy pay for their daughters college and what not. I think it is completely acceptable. |
OK I give up. You're either some kind of anarchist or you have the mind and sense of responsibility of a small child. |
Keep fighting the good fight. |
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rainman3277
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Finally took the "Study Room" Plunge |
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| FDNY wrote: |
Wife and I moved into a 205 square meter (62 pyong) apartment last month. We converted one wing into two classrooms, a library and school bathroom. We went to the dong office with our lease and degrees and ten minutes later had a study room license. We are allowed teach up to nine students per class. We asked about fees and apparently they are at the discretion of the education office of where you live. Where we live there are none. However, we are charging the going rate of 200,000KRW per month. So far we have 24 students and I teach them Monday and Wednesday. (I do my usual privates on the road Tuesday and Thursday.) My brother-in-law teaches them grammar on Friday. We haven't even started advertising yet, but I would eventually like to teach Mon/Wed classes and Tue/Thu classes. Get about 30 students for each class set and that is a tidy 12,000,000KRW per month for about 24 hours of actual teaching per week.
Theoretically we could have a six-day, three set system, (Mon/Thur; Tue/Fri; Wed/Sat) maxing out students in each class. Say seven classes per day. This would be: (seven classes per day) X (nine students per class) X (three class sets) = 189 students This would be 37,800,000KRW/month or a nice 453,600,000KRW/year. |
First part was realistic and I know a few guys making 10mill/month doing home classes.
the second part is where you go off the rails. |
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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Finally took the "Study Room" Plunge |
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| rainman3277 wrote: |
| FDNY wrote: |
Wife and I moved into a 205 square meter (62 pyong) apartment last month. We converted one wing into two classrooms, a library and school bathroom. We went to the dong office with our lease and degrees and ten minutes later had a study room license. We are allowed teach up to nine students per class. We asked about fees and apparently they are at the discretion of the education office of where you live. Where we live there are none. However, we are charging the going rate of 200,000KRW per month. So far we have 24 students and I teach them Monday and Wednesday. (I do my usual privates on the road Tuesday and Thursday.) My brother-in-law teaches them grammar on Friday. We haven't even started advertising yet, but I would eventually like to teach Mon/Wed classes and Tue/Thu classes. Get about 30 students for each class set and that is a tidy 12,000,000KRW per month for about 24 hours of actual teaching per week.
Theoretically we could have a six-day, three set system, (Mon/Thur; Tue/Fri; Wed/Sat) maxing out students in each class. Say seven classes per day. This would be: (seven classes per day) X (nine students per class) X (three class sets) = 189 students This would be 37,800,000KRW/month or a nice 453,600,000KRW/year. |
First part was realistic and I know a few guys making 10mill/month doing home classes.
the second part is where you go off the rails. |
Dude, I know that. The second part was whimsical/theoretical. With 200 students my wife would be inhaling Xanax and Cass all day long just to stay focused. I would be having my friends ship over some pretty much get down meth so I would have the power to keep going.
What edwardcatshit and Adonginmay don't seem to realize is that I don't take care of the day to day operations of this business. I dictate broad pedagogical policies, directions and trends we should be following. I don't dirty myself going to banks, government offices and what not. I will occasionally thrill a mother or two to seal a deal. That’s it. Where the money comes from, where it goes and what it does is of no concern to me. My biggest concern right now is if my Hoyo de Monterrey - Epicure Especial cigars make it to my new address. |
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