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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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 Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Ippy thanks, I've been out knocking to no avail, and will head south next week calling in at a few towns on my way to Busan.
Went to the PT interview in Pangyo, professionally with tie and best shoes, seemed ok. They advised they couldnt afford a FT teacher and so were offering PT with E2. Anyway there's been no response from them since, despite them asking me when I could start, and to contact them in the coming days with any further questions. So dead end there. Lovely, thanks for coming out to Pangyo in the rain.
Then there's been the trend this week of recruiters responding with 'Hey what about this, what about this ASAP role in Pohang, what about this ASAP role in Cheongju, what about teaching adults in Daejeon split shifts 0930-2230', and then when I'm immediately giving them all they've asked for (like proof of my ready-to-go documents), it's like 'sorry that role's been taken'.
But you just had it posted earlier today. >. <
I'm applying for everything I can but like this thread is entitled, it's not going well. I'll give it's a few more weeks and then leave I think. It's getting colder by the day here now, and I need somewhere to live. |
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| ...and I remain very very grateful for all the jewels of advice on this thread. To everyone, thank you. |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry to hear that dude, but honestly, china! Just get the process started. Or if you hate pollution, Thailand. Plenty of jobs out there, maybe not in Korea or Japan any more, but lots and lots elsewhere. |
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| It's not for your lack of quality guidance & enthusiasm here Ip thanku mate. Yes I think I'll revert to BKK in a few weeks, if not sooner. I'll try as much as I can here in the meantime. Despite having to chew sky, I may have to chose the best place I can in China. It's a shame, I was ready for this. But it's getting cold now and in all facets I can't afford to stagnate. |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:16 am Post subject: |
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A guaranteed income beats no income. Savings are almost the same (of course dependent on salary and conditions). Students in china are excellent and lots of fun to teach. Jobs are everywhere. Opportunities exist to move up or sideways if you fancy just a change of scenery.
Pollution is HELLISH in winter, but it calms down again around March/April. We're hitting the start of it now. It was alright up until about a month ago.
My honest and genuine belief is that once i have about 3 years in Korea, ill have a pop at EPIK again, but if its not happening, then its back to china. Or off to thailand to pick up an MA TESOL on the cheap and then i can call my shots for the next ten or so years.
The point is that despite leaving China now for Korea, China is arguably the most viable option out there and i have no intention of closing the door on it. Its been a great place to make money and get my finances back in order. I really like the people as well. If you need somewhere to squirrel away a couple of years to repair an ESL cockup, then China is going to look after you and get you back on track to take on your next challenge.
Thailand on the other hand you really need either a few years in the industry and some networks, or you need the qualifications to put you above the rabble. Otherwise its about 30-35 for public school and 35-40 for private. Id do Thailand long term, but only if ive got a bit of a nest egg already in place. Itd make a great place to teach for say a year or so after a couple of years teaching in China. I think of it like an ESL gap year  Pay check to pay check its a nice pace of life. I wouldnt think of it for a career though unless i was really committed to living there for several years (so i could exploit those networks a bit).
TTompatz can tell you way more about Thailand, though. If you are going to work, my one piece of advice is to post your resume up on ajarn, refresh it often so it bumps to the top and make sure your pic looks nice.
With a relevant degree to education, and a bit of experience, you'll be less of a headache than a backpacker working under the counter. Your competition in Thailand are not 24 year old North American Females who look way better than you. Its unqualified bakcpackers looking to extend their holiday. You aint anywhere near the bottom of the barrel there. |
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Another excellent post Ippy thank you. |
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject: Bye Korea |
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Looking back at the job posts, maybe it's because I wasn't North American, too old, not attractive enough or simply just a bad time of year. Probably a mix. Goodbye Korea, I've spent six weeks on your northern shores, paperwork at the ready, battling shoulder charging old Korean ladies on your subways (and in all fairness experiencing lovely market stall holders who always give you an extra egg, piece of fruit or bread in addition to your order. And lovely Korean children who initiate conversation with you in passing with a large 'hello!' and a smile. These things have been nice).
I've walked in to see recruiters on my first day in the capital and enlisted five other agencies who acknowledged their assistance. Perhaps up to 10 applications sent myself each day for jobs that I was not ineligible for (gender / age / nationality / ASAP jobs and so on) peninsula-wide, leads followed, using all resources I could find, advertising myself on Seoul Craigslist and knocking on doors where I could. To no avail. Not one positive ASAP FT job response in 6 weeks. I feel I did as much as I could, but with a northern winter fast approaching I've no job or home here so it's untenable to stay for another 6. I tried you Korea, I tried.
I'm a pretty modest guy and I didn't have wild expectations, just thinking that I might have had just one job arise from it. But what I noticed was this trend developing - in that no matter how many jobs you responded to - there was just silence in return, bar the odd agency asking in return 'how old are you by the way?'
I'll leave for BKK on Monday, otherwise I might well take Ippy's advice and brave the pollution and the CCP (thanks Ippy, for all your help, I owe you and everyone else here large coffees next we meet). Thanks due too, to all those here on this thread who helped me with their advice. It's been gratefully received.
If you're considering Korea as a native speaking, older male grad in their 4th or 5th decade, regardless of an edu degree major, well, it hasn't worked for me. Not one FT response in six weeks. Please consider against coming here in September / October / November. I hope this thread might help you too.
I'll miss the topokki but there's always green curry.
Rgds |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, that genuinely sucks. But its good youve made a decision to cut your losses on it. I hope this thread does give people a decent idea of the problems faced by folks on the peripheries of the market.
Good luck in Thailand! im not a big fan myself, then again i had to transport a snowboard bag filled with crap all over the country wherever i went, so it was annoying as crap. But the food is AMAZING. Definitely the one thing i miss. The humidity and temperature... not so much, im a pasty Celt.
The school term started VERY recently, so you may still find a few places looking for a quick and urgent teacher. So sooner you get your ass to Thailand the better i reckon.
As i said before, go to ajarn (ill email you the link). Post your resume up. Get a nice picture of yourself looking professional and approachable (and youngish), apply to a few recruiters and youll have a job within a day or two. It will SHOCK you after your time in Korea just how fast things move.
One piece of advice. Get your ass to the Thai consulate and get a double entry tourist visa RIGHT NOW. When i tried to do it in Japan there were no walk ins allowed and you had to schedule an appointment. The next available date for an appointment was almost a month away. Its unlikely this is the case in Korea, (the embassy in Japan was in a temporary location due to a 3 year renovation project on their main embassy). But just in case, get and do it now. It will give you peace of mind and save you the MISERY of back to back 30 day visa-exemption runs... if theyre even possible nowadays (Thailand: hub of clampdowns!)
The standard process is that youll start the job, the recruiter will start the teaching certificate process. You dont need to wait for the visa in Thailand. I mean, you probably should until the process is underway and you have that thing from immigration, but er... this is thailand? Its a bit... flexible.
Anyways, food is yum, schools are a clusterfuck, climate is... yuk! unless you go north apparently, visas are... optional?, but things move quickly, i always got paid on time and with about 0% deduction. Housing can be fun. Buy a mosquito net if you ever plan on sleeping again. Enjoy the geckos (i love those little things! so cute having them run about your walls at night eating the mossies and ants). Oh yeah, the ants!... <shudder!>
Ah! and mooing frogs! how i miss the mooing frogs! Wild wild odd place. And enjoy your time whipping about on a moped. The beaches are... alright, but then again i dont really 'get' beaches. Its nice for about ten minutes, but after that its just sand annoying the crap out of me. The tiny sand crabs were cute though.
Good luck in Thailand dude! its a genuine adventure if youre not holidaying there. And if someone tries to prey on you (gold-digger abound!) just remind them youre a public school teacher and you earn **** all. |
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basic69isokay
Joined: 28 Sep 2014
Location: korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:27 am Post subject: Re: Bye Korea |
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| Voyager2 wrote: |
Looking back at the job posts, maybe it's because I wasn't North American, too old, not attractive enough or simply just a bad time of year. Probably a mix. Goodbye Korea, I've spent six weeks on your northern shores, paperwork at the ready, battling shoulder charging old Korean ladies on your subways (and in all fairness experiencing lovely market stall holders who always give you an extra egg, piece of fruit or bread in addition to your order. And lovely Korean children who initiate conversation with you in passing with a large 'hello!' and a smile. These things have been nice).
I've walked in to see recruiters on my first day in the capital and enlisted five other agencies who acknowledged their assistance. Perhaps up to 10 applications sent myself each day for jobs that I was not ineligible for (gender / age / nationality / ASAP jobs and so on) peninsula-wide, leads followed, using all resources I could find, advertising myself on Seoul Craigslist and knocking on doors where I could. To no avail. Not one positive ASAP FT job response in 6 weeks. I feel I did as much as I could, but with a northern winter fast approaching I've no job or home here so it's untenable to stay for another 6. I tried you Korea, I tried.
I'm a pretty modest guy and I didn't have wild expectations, just thinking that I might have had just one job arise from it. But what I noticed was this trend developing - in that no matter how many jobs you responded to - there was just silence in return, bar the odd agency asking in return 'how old are you by the way?'
I'll leave for BKK on Monday, otherwise I might well take Ippy's advice and brave the pollution and the CCP (thanks Ippy, for all your help, I owe you and everyone else here large coffees next we meet). Thanks due too, to all those here on this thread who helped me with their advice. It's been gratefully received.
If you're considering Korea as a native speaking, older male grad in their 4th or 5th decade, regardless of an edu degree major, well, it hasn't worked for me. Not one FT response in six weeks. Please consider against coming here in September / October / November. I hope this thread might help you too.
I'll miss the topokki but there's always green curry.
Rgds |
All class. Things happen for a reason man. You'll be on a warm beach while we're all freezing our ass*s off in Korea.
After Spring comes, hit China and make some big bucks. Learn a truly useful language. Could be a blessing. |
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Roman Holiday
Joined: 22 Sep 2014
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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A sobering read. Good luck Voyager.
Well, I might now reconsider the skype interview offered for a uni position in Daegu. It is only 2 mil a month but has all the down time benefit of uni work. I wonder what the privates market is like there? Also, not too far from Busan. If offered the job, I guess my strategy will be to delay it as long as possible in case I'm offered something in Seoul. Busan is starting to look more attractive. And then there are the universities in Shanghai...... maybe the following year if I can't make good savings.
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| B69 thanks for your thoughtfulness, yeah you're probably right, I try to be positive. Thank RH and good luck to you too. Rgds |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| ippy wrote: |
Dude, seriously, if you dont have a particular reason to stick in korea, just hit up China. Youll find a job pretty much immediately.
Actually let me tell you about it though just in case:
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1. Money:
If you have skill and experience you will fall into a 10,000 or more job fairly easily. Demand for applicants MASSIVELY outstrips supply. This is not just in the boonies, but also in Shanghai and Beijing. There is no seoul/busan effect right now. Pay and conditions dont plummet the closer you are to the big cities, in fact if anything, due to the cost of living, they seem to be higher paid.
Ive been offered 14,000 already plus house. I dont want to live in a big city though. Im already in Tianjin and comfortable as it is, i just prefer nature and the boonies.
My salary has a 6% tax deduction. Its about 600yuan.
So my take home is around 9400.
Of this, i spend around 3000 or so per month on stuffs. Im not really travelling. So you could easy knock it up a couple more G if you like to travel a bit.
This means im saving somewhere around 6000/month.
In real terms thats around $1000 US.
This is pretty effortless savings. You can live on cheaper. I had to in my first few months. (i was paying off a huge credit card debt). I was fine on around 2000 at a push. I wouldnt recommend it mind you unless youre really happy with street food and chinese food in general. Sadly im not. It disagrees with my tummy all too often.
You can score jobs in ANY part of the country. With ANY grade of students. In ANY type of business. For ANY pay grade you want. Age is not a barrier in china AT ALL. In fact, public schools seem to prefer slightly older folks by the looks of things. Since youre solo teaching for the most part, and since theyre pretty gung ho about the textbook, they want people who can handle the material AND have the authority to control a class. Sure they want the genki-clown (me), but they also want you to TEACH the subject far more than they want you to entertain the students.
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2. Visa Process.
Speaking of the Visa. Takes about 4 weeks. One annoying step in the process that can be circumnavigated via an agent/courier. Theyll charge you around a couple of hundred for that Z-visa stage, but Chinese immigration can be ridiculous so its worth avoiding the headache and having someone else turn up for a week in your stead every day to see if theyll finally bother to process it).
Anyways, get the job (easy peasy), get the medical check done. Fill in the relevant docs - school will send you - mail them back to China, school will apply in china. About a week or two later youll get the letter of invitation and a few other odds and sods (get some stamped blank sheets in case immigration in your end get difficult - i had to produce a SECOND informal (but nevertheless signed and stamped) invitation letter explaining my movements in China). Then send it all off to your agent back in your home country.
Wait for them to pester the chinese embassy a few days and bish bosh! you have your Z visa!
Come to china, get that entry stamp to activate the Z-visa, then sign your contract on your house and take it to the police dept with the landlords red book and get a medical done (again) in china (bring xrays, bloodwork etc from your medical outside the country to speed it all up) and whoosh! now you can go do the final step and get your residency permit. You pop to the main immigration for an interview (they basically tell you to not mess about and be good!) then once they give you the all clear, head to the department likely next door, and BLAM! youre now legal to work in china. All in, takes about a month at a push. Could realistically be done in three weeks if youre lucky.
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3. The Job.
Hours vary, you can easily be teaching 7 classes on the bounce 4 days a week. You could be commuting MILES. Literally MILES AND MILES. You could be doing half your classes in one school in the morning, then getting on a train for an hour and then a taxi for another half hour to your next school for 2 classes in the afternoon. It can be punishing. And no one has sympathy for you. Youre there to work in china. Theres none of this special snowflake nonsense Whatever Chinese people have to do, youre going to have to do as well. If they have to teach 8 hours a day, no ones going to remotely care that youve just taught 7 classes for the last two days, did a two hour commute to this school at 5.40 in the morning to get there on time for the 8 classes you have that day. And time to plan lessons! HA!!! you do this in your free time mate! You suck it up!
Or you do your research beforehand and not pick the first offer that sounds alright.
Loads of different jobs for everyone out there. If you want some free time, take a PT gig on 22 hours (yes, PT KOREA!!!), for 8000 rather than the 30 CONTACT hours plus commute plus no lesson planning and prep time for 10,000.
Its definitely the number one thing to watch out for. I like my company. Genuinely. I learned a hell of a lot more in this one year in China than i did in the previous 8 in korea and japan. The workload is brutal, the expectations can be incredibly demanding, and you can be micro managed like you wont believe. But it made me raise my game a bit... and you get used to it. And once you come out of it, youre a better teacher at the end. Thats how i chose to look at it
I wouldnt do it again though  I like them a lot. But id rather enjoy my life a bit more.
Anyways. Research research research. One of my mates, 54, went back to the UK recently. Got several offers and ended up exactly in the city he wants to work in for the pay he wants to work for with the students he wants to work with. Just be patient. Youll have offers pretty much every day. You can be selective.
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4. The students
I love my students. I genuinely love Korean students. They were so damn cheerful. But then again, i was teaching at an all girls middle school, so kinda lucked out in my time there. Maybe co-ed is a little more... tricky.
In china though the students are freaking amazing. The level is very high. They dont mess about. But somehow theyre also really enthusiastic. I mean, bounce off the walls enthusiasm. I really think that China has hit on something amazing. Either culturally or just the desire for status, those students are cheerful, enthusiastic, interested, engaged and will work their ass off to improve their English. Again, it might be the fact i live in Tianjin and teach in a nice big city, but even the 'low level' school i teach at has far more positive and freindly students than apathetic and disruptive students. Chinese students are genuinely one of the best things about life in China. Its why, despite point 3 above and my 28 public school classes per week schedule and two hour commute on wednesday and thursday 60km across the damn city, i still had a blast teaching here.
Yeah, research innit.
But students are great.
Teachers... not so much Your teachers will (HAVE TO) sit in your class. Theyll do marking. I used to try and engage them and bring them into the activities, but they really dont want to. This is your job, not theirs. Their job is marking, doing nothing at all about any ill-discipline, scowling at you, and all round being fucking useless IN YOUR CLASS. IM sure theyre brilliant in their own, but in my class i have a teacher who brings her ipad, sits at the front of the class by the door watching her drama programs and occasionally QQing her mates. I asked her last week for the FIRST TIME EVER if she would like to be a part of the game, she looked at me probably like id look at someone who asked me to do their job for them, and excused herself by saying she er... had to put numbers into a phone.
Pretty universal as well to be honest. Im not really sure why theyre even in the class. They literally do nothing that would help your class. They might as well be ghosts. So students: amazing; teachers: youre on your own.
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5. China.
Kinda like Korea to be honest. Not quite as clean or safe as Japan, but has a distinct Korean vibe to it. Ridiculous mix of INSANE wealth and common poverty. Houses are GRIM AS *beep* on the outside, but awesome on the inside. Smells can be ATROCIOUS at times. Pollution on that Eastern seaboard is unbelievable. The culture is pretty vibrant and fun. Lots of clubs and parties going off as youd expect. All your mod cons if you live in a city over a million (not hard to find). Pretty easy. The driving is horrendous though mind you. Every day im gobsmacked at the lack of spatial awareness for others around them. Someone does something that has my jaw on the floor. Definitely easy enough to find what you need, be it a club, a bar, some KTV, a museum, a concert or whatevers. Youll be pretty well taken care of.
So thats the case for China. Its really a nice place. Assuming i dont bottle it in the next week while i can still just transfer my visa, and head to korea, ill still have china as a back up from around mid November. Its so easy to get a job there, and if you have experience, a BA, and a teaching certificate, youll be a shoe-in. Definitely worth looking into if you want to keep riding the ESL gravy train and are struggling in Korea. Culturally, big city life is no different to big city life in Korea. Medium city life is probably equally comparable (or likely better since, you know, medium city is usually well over a million people - the scale is VAST). Rural versus korea is going to suck balls though
So pick your poison. Hope this helps inspire you a little to have a punt on it. |
Unrelated, but I hear Chinese are very sociable? More than Koreans? Here in Korea, Chinese always seem to jump over things to come over and try to talk to me, especially the Chinese girls here (in Korea). Not sure if that's reflective of Chinese in general though. |
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: Bye for now Korea |
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That's a nice anecdote WG. Well goodbye for now Korea, I'll leave for Bangkok tomorrow where I've an interview Wednesday, it will get me working again anyway. Perhaps I'll try for EPIK or China in spring.
Last weekend I did manage a one day cash-in-hand English Village day at a large community Kindy in Northern Seoul. A day's work in two months, not bad >.<  Anyway it went really well and the children were lovely.
What I did notice was that news travels fast and everyone seems to know everything. For example I worked alongside a very nice Korean gyopo, afterward she wrote, 'You did great! It wasn't what I expected, so I want to help find you a job here in Korea'. She then passed me on to her contract agency this week and we met, and the assumption was that I already had the E2, which of course I don't.
The agency girl over lunch said 'My owner wants to know why you didn't do the Halloween event. Why didn't you?' I responded 'They dropped three of us at the door of the Kindy and told us to go inside. There was no choice of doing the Halloween event (a parallel thing somewhere else) or the English Village event' I affirmed. We were told what to do.
That's unimportant, what's important is that the owner of an agency that sent his Korean girls to an event, knew about an Australian who responded to a Craigslist ad for a 1 day event to a fixer who (as far as I know) had nothing to to with the agency. Or maybe he did. Anyway it doesn't matter. It was a good day and someone mentioned the manager was very satisfied. But word does seem to travel fast and wide.
Anyway, still no full-time offer or even interview in several weeks
Bye for now Korea, this thread has been such a support for me here as I've sought an opening over the last weeks, many thanks to all those who've responded with thoughts and advice. |
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watergirl
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: Ansan, south korea
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| Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Voyager...
I was wondering what happened to you. To be honest, I'm a little jeoulous. I LOVE Thailand, the beaches, climate, food. And, you said that money wasn't your first priority. Frankly, that's the only reason why I stay in Korea.
And, after while, if the money is really bad, from what I hear, China is becoming almost as well paying as Korea (well, is Korea really that well paying, I have my doubts), but much less pickier, and do not have the hang-ups about age that Koreans do..
Funny thing is, apparently, Koreans as well have problems applying for jobs even if they are in their 30s. So ridiculous here.
Anyways, good luck!!!!!!
REally, it is VERY cold here in the winter. |
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Voyager2
Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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| Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| Watergirl you're lovely:) ,thanks for your thoughts. Yes I was a little sad to leave Korea on Monday, although it was getting chiller by the day, you're right. I saw a school I'd been chatting to over the last weeks here today. They want a three day demo period then three month's probation (by means of comparison - as I want to respect this section is in regards Korea Work only). It'd be less than Kr of course, coming in at 1.3 million Won. But a start again and not the rushing pushiness apparent here. WGirl take care and pls do stay in touch via pm if you like, best wishes |
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