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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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 Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Higher (than material) truth is available to sincere seekers - whether they be scientists, philosophers, artists, poets, or carpenters. In the final analysis, empirical evidence is clearly over-rated in the search for Absolute Truth.
There's a nice section on reincarnation in this online book...
http://www.bbt.se/Manuals/EN%20ID%20text%20to%20p30%20CR%20blank.pdf |
Happy Halloween.
Watch out for those ghouls, spirits and leprechauns. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Creationist literature, really? The chances of me reading bunkum from your cult is zero. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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You know, I've had my philosophic disagreements with you, but I have to admit I like the way you put yourself out there with the singing. For some reason, this exchange between you and Smithington reminds me of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, and the tension between the cynical and ugly yet technically correct Androids of the Buster Friendly Show, and the humane and charming yet technically mistaken human adherents of Mercerism. Our own interactions have probably had a not entirely dissimilar character at times, but I have to admit that while I lend primacy to truth over beauty, these days I feel an urge to reconcile the two rather than choose. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Actually, it seems to be completely logical. Perhaps the different usage of the term "atom" is what's throwing you off...
Vedic knowledge purports to be handed down from God - if He's lying, there's not much hope... |
It's not likely to be throwing anyone off, but very likely to be putting people off.
If God is being relied on to bring forth truth... there is little hope for those in search of it.
Fox wrote:
I go with this as well. While RT seems a bit eccentric in his beliefs, he certainly seems genuine about them, and if there is such a thing...he has a good soul.  |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, someone being a seemingly nice bloke doesn't make their flights into fancy any less delusional. When deciding if reincarnation or life after death are possible, or likely, we are searching for truth on the matter. We are not searching for the 'beautiful' answer, the 'poetic' possibility, or the answer that meets own emotion demands. We are searching for reality.
I love Christmas, for example, and love Xmas carols. I love the fable, and can see beauty in it. I love religious art, and never pass an old church without stepping in to admire the architecture and stained windows. I stand in awe at the grandeur of the universe. But as an adult I know that the bible stories are fables, and although escapism can be most tempting, we must always return to what is known about the world - and to avoid making nonsense up about the stuff we still don't know.
What RTeacher goes on about belongs in poetry class, or creative literature, or theology class - not science class. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I'm an advocate of more teacher autonomy - I don't think alternative views should be mandated as part of grade school science curriculum, but if particular teachers want to discuss alternative ideas to stimulate more learning/critical thinking, then I think they should be free to do so. I also think that modern science has been accorded too high an intellectual status (over philosophy, art, poetry, etc.) based on its ability to deliver more material goods, convenience and knowledge. Material science reigns intellectually supreme only if there is nothing beyond physical matter, no higher (non-material) goals to aspire to...
Anyway, it's time to say good-bye... http://www.singsnap.com/karaoke/r/c18510f63 |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
Unfortunately, someone being a seemingly nice bloke doesn't make their flights into fancy any less delusional. When deciding if reincarnation or life after death are possible, or likely, we are searching for truth on the matter. We are not searching for the 'beautiful' answer, the 'poetic' possibility, or the answer that meets own emotion demands. We are searching for reality.
I love Christmas, for example, and love Xmas carols. I love the fable, and can see beauty in it. I love religious art, and never pass an old church without stepping in to admire the architecture and stained windows. I stand in awe at the grandeur of the universe. But as an adult I know that the bible stories are fables, and although escapism can be most tempting, we must always return to what is known about the world - and to avoid making nonsense up about the stuff we still don't know.
What RTeacher goes on about belongs in poetry class, or creative literature, or theology class - not science class. |
You are an incredible bore. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: |
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That's subjective, and some things are worse than boring - like this song: http://www.singsnap.com/karaoke/r/bea95decd
(I started to do online karaoke when I was in Korea - and it was free - but then I got hooked, so now I pay for it (though anyone can still record and save a limited number of songs for free on that site....) |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
Unfortunately, someone being a seemingly nice bloke doesn't make their flights into fancy any less delusional. When deciding if reincarnation or life after death are possible, or likely, we are searching for truth on the matter. We are not searching for the 'beautiful' answer, the 'poetic' possibility, or the answer that meets own emotion demands. We are searching for reality.
I love Christmas, for example, and love Xmas carols. I love the fable, and can see beauty in it. I love religious art, and never pass an old church without stepping in to admire the architecture and stained windows. I stand in awe at the grandeur of the universe. But as an adult I know that the bible stories are fables, and although escapism can be most tempting, we must always return to what is known about the world - and to avoid making nonsense up about the stuff we still don't know.
What RTeacher goes on about belongs in poetry class, or creative literature, or theology class - not science class. |
You are an incredible bore. |
Smithington is arguing for keeping one's feet on the ground, and one's head out of the clouds, when trying to ascertain what is real and what is not real. It's the most important undertaking that humanity can enage in. Finding the truth. If you find that boring, or its advocates boring, I'm afraid that says more about you than Smithington. Do you consider Carl Sagan, Einstein and Darwin boring, too. If you do, then feel free to go back to your sports channel and computer games and leave adult matters to adults.
As for RTeacher emphasizing poetry and philosophy, noone is against that. There is beauty in that. I have never heard of an agnostic or atheist speak out against these things. They are fascinating and beautiful in their own right. Smithington already stated he is moved by aspects of religion and art. But it is not science. The two must not be confused. (Why does this need explaining?)
Cheepak Shopra and his ilk can wax poetically all they want, but when confronted by a clear thinker, with two feet on the ground, they are out of their league. Their wooliness of thought, and the religious nature of their beliefs, becomes apparent for all to see. Just watch this short 5 minute video of Deepak Chopra debating Sam Harris. Compare the clarity of thinking, and the facts-based approach of Harris to the wooly, metaphysical nonsense of Chopra. It's like an adult talking to a child.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLwnqDvlXqI
There's a reason RTeacher is walking away from this thread. And I doubt very much it's because Smithington is "a bore". I've also engaged in debates of this nature with Christians on this forum, and they always walk away too. Maybe it's because I'm a bore too, but I kind of suspect there's another reason.
As Harris says, there's absolutely nothing wrong with subjectivity. It's the most important thing in the world. But it cannot explain the world.
And as Richard Dawkins points out, words must have specific meanings for communication, and understanding, to be sound. Also assertions have to be more than mere assertions. RTeacher makes a lot of assertions which he wants us to accept as fact. When in truth they are nothing more than a poetic interpretation of reality. Here is a 3 minute discussion between Dawkins and a Hindu 'philosopher' about the meaning of reality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-cbIbXSis
At least he's honest when asked "How do you know that what you're asserting is true?" He bluntly answers that he doesn't really know that it's true. It's just his "world view."
Nothing more than poetry. |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Smithington is arguing for keeping one's feet on the ground, and one's head out of the clouds, when trying to ascertain what is real and what is not real. It's the most important undertaking that humanity can enage in. Finding the truth. If you find that boring, or its advocates boring, I'm afraid that says more about you than Smithington. Do you consider Carl Sagan, Einstein and Darwin boring, too. If you do, then feel free to go back to your sports channel and computer games and leave adult matters to adults. |
Good Grief!? |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Scorpion wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
Unfortunately, someone being a seemingly nice bloke doesn't make their flights into fancy any less delusional. When deciding if reincarnation or life after death are possible, or likely, we are searching for truth on the matter. We are not searching for the 'beautiful' answer, the 'poetic' possibility, or the answer that meets own emotion demands. We are searching for reality.
I love Christmas, for example, and love Xmas carols. I love the fable, and can see beauty in it. I love religious art, and never pass an old church without stepping in to admire the architecture and stained windows. I stand in awe at the grandeur of the universe. But as an adult I know that the bible stories are fables, and although escapism can be most tempting, we must always return to what is known about the world - and to avoid making nonsense up about the stuff we still don't know.
What RTeacher goes on about belongs in poetry class, or creative literature, or theology class - not science class. |
You are an incredible bore. |
Smithington is arguing for keeping one's feet on the ground, and one's head out of the clouds, when trying to ascertain what is real and what is not real. It's the most important undertaking that humanity can enage in. Finding the truth. If you find that boring, or its advocates boring, I'm afraid that says more about you than Smithington. Do you consider Carl Sagan, Einstein and Darwin boring, too. If you do, then feel free to go back to your sports channel and computer games and leave adult matters to adults. |
I will define bore for you; or rather, I will use Google to define it for you.
| Quote: |
bore (2)
noun
noun: bore; plural noun: bores
1.
a person whose talk or behavior is dull and uninteresting.
"a crashing bore who tells the same old jokes over and over" |
Going on and on and on about how there's only one right, adult answer to the ultimately unanswerable question of whether there is, in ultimate fact, a god; This is boring. Its even worse in a thread entitled "School me on reincarnation," which roots itself on the idea that reincarnation is valid. All of us speculating on Died in Bear's question do not necessarily believe in the ultimate truth of reincarnation. We are playing a thought game.
Since we are playing a thought game, I would expect Sagan, Einstein, or Darwin to either be good sports, or not enter the thread. Either works! Would any of them come into the thread and drone on and on about adults having to conclude that there is no god. That's highly doubtful. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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All of us speculating on Died in Bear's question do not necessarily believe in the ultimate truth of reincarnation. We are playing a thought game.
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Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
We are playing a thought game.
Since we are playing a thought game, I would expect Sagan, Einstein, or Darwin to either be good sports, or not enter the thread. Either works! Would any of them come into the thread and drone on and on about adults having to conclude that there is no god. That's highly doubtful. |
Sure. So long as we understand...it's a game.
Playing these types of games should start with the phrase
Wouldn't it be cool if....
| Quote: |
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality |
As in,
Wouldn't it be cool if...Freddie Mercury's vocal talent could be reincarnated into my vocal box. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Playing these types of games should start with the phrase
Wouldn't it be cool if... |
The rhetorical problem there is that I don't think it would be cool. Endless reincarnation would be pretty horrifying, actually. So horrifying that historically, people who have accepted it as a base assumption have tried to come up with a solution to it. Even genuine immortality seems like it would be of ambiguous value at best. Endless existence coupled with constant obliteration of the mind and rebirth into other circumstances with no end in sight? You can't even come to terms with such a plight, because any mindset you achieved which was capable of coming to terms with it will be wiped away with your next death. Give me, "When you're dead, you're dead," over that any day. |
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