Korean Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - Korean college admissions lies rampant

Speak Korean Now!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

Korean college admissions lies rampant
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next

Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:31 am Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

atwood wrote:

You were the one claiming the sentencing would be different. I showed you examples when it wasn't--in other words that you were wrong--and the best you can do is call me names.

Poor show, gunga din. Good thing for you the three strike rule doesn't apply here.

Actually it is different atwood. Those sentences aren't just for shoplifting or petty theft. Those sentences are for all the crimes they committed previously PLUS their most recent crime. That's why its called a 3 strikes rule. The sentencing guidelines specifically refer to past criminal conduct. To make it on there you have to commit certain crimes, usually violent ones or armed robbery.

That's like saying that "robbery is treated just as badly as murder, since both can get you the death penalty" and posting some story about a guy getting the death penalty for armed robbery, but leaving out the fact that this death occurred during commission of that robbery where his accomplice shot someone. Similar situation here. The sentencing for both felony murder AND three strikes specifically refers to other crimes. Without those other crimes, the stiff sentence you speak of is impossible.

Plagiarism is not the same as armed robbery. I'm happy that in your sheltered life, you can manage to be so free of that kind of crime as to somehow equate the two.

For those of us who have had to deal with it firsthand and lived and worked in serious fear of its occurrence, it is nowhere near the same. If you spent any time in the real world and not in whatever sheltered hamlet you grew up in, you'd know that too.

But here's how they are NOT the same- The cops or normal citizens can't shoot you for plagiarism. They CAN and WILL shoot you for armed robbery. Try walking into a liquor store copying someone's notes vs. holding a gun, same reaction I'm sure.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and try it?

Mr. Blackcat wrote:

I mean seriously, you claim again and again that Korea is some sort of safe haven from "back home" and when I list stats that prove that to be completely false you just claim it's a different kind of murder. You completely refuse to admit when you are wrong. You've been exposed as a liar so many times on this board and you just keep on spouting the same drivel in response. Your only defence is simply more text. Just flood every thread with enough lies that everyone else gives up fact checking every insane claim you make or just gets tired, and then you "win".

I'm not saying its a safe haven. I am saying that the claim that "stealing" or "theft" is ingrained in Korean culture is bunk because there isn't a corresponding match in violent theft. And since violent theft is higher back home, does that mean "theft" is part of our culture as well?

And saying that its mostly domestic killings as opposed to say, gang drivebys is not some stretch of the imagination. That's common sense. How many random killings do you get here? How many times has someone robbed a CU and knifed or shot someone? Come on man.

Anyways, have fun siding with the guy that thinks plagiarism via copy machine is the same as robbery at gun point. Maybe you can join in him on Naive Street in Shelteredville.

Yes, but the previous crimes were also theft. So it's the same. And you're lying when you said their previous crimes weren't violent. Because they weren't.

You seem to have PTSD from your time as a convenience clerk. But dude, I hate to break it to you, your weren't under fire in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Grow a pair. And STOP LYING!

3DR

Joined: 24 May 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:39 am Post subject:

Poor atwood. Getting destroyed by SR. Must be having a breakdown now

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:50 am Post subject:

3DR wrote:

Poor atwood. Getting destroyed by SR. Must be having a breakdown now Sad

Where do you buy those apologist eyeglasses at? Or do you get a free pair when you become a srian?

And where's my water, gunga din?

3DR

Joined: 24 May 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:36 am Post subject:

I'm not sure where you are getting "Gunga Din" from, but it's hilarious to me for some reason.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:21 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

Yes, but the previous crimes were also theft. So it's the same. And you're lying when you said their previous crimes weren't violent. Because they weren't

First, I said "usually violent ones". Do you understand what the word usually means? You do realize that usually is not the same as always, right?

Anyways-

Quote:

The jury recommended Ward be sentenced as a habitual criminal. Ward has previous felony convictions for burglary, attempted robbery, aggravated assault, leaving the scene of an accident and possession of cocaine, and four misdemeanor convictions, including two thefts.

Quote:

Taylor was convicted of third-strike burglary due to two robbery convictions in the 1980s, once for stealing a purse containing $10 and another time for trying to rob a man on the street. He didn't use a weapon in either case, and no one was injured.

The threat of violence is still considered violence. That's why plagarism gets you a suspension in school and threatening someone for their wallet gets you a felony conviction and years in prison.

Quote:

You seem to have PTSD from your time as a convenience clerk. But dude, I hate to break it to you, your weren't under fire in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Not saying I was. But between PTSD and sheltered naivety, there is the middle ground of having to deal with crime and realizing that copying a paper or the shape of the iphone does not equal having to deal with your store getting robbed at gunpoint.

Quote:

Grow a pair. And STOP LYING!

Lol, where was I lying? Quote it.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

atwood wrote:

Yes, but the previous crimes were also theft. So it's the same. And you're lying when you said their previous crimes weren't violent. Because they weren't

First, I said "usually violent ones". Do you understand what the word usually means? You do realize that usually is not the same as always, right?

Anyways-

Quote:

The threat of violence is still considered violence. That's why plagarism gets you a suspension in school and threatening someone for their wallet gets you a felony conviction and years in prison.

Quote:

You seem to have PTSD from your time as a convenience clerk. But dude, I hate to break it to you, your weren't under fire in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Quote:

Grow a pair. And STOP LYING!

Lol, where was I lying? Quote it.

You posted:

Quote:

That's like saying that "robbery is treated just as badly as murder, since both can get you the death penalty" and posting some story about a guy getting the death penalty for armed robbery, but leaving out the fact that this death occurred during commission of that robbery where his accomplice shot someone. Similar situation here. The sentencing for both felony murder AND three strikes specifically refers to other crimes. Without those other crimes, the stiff sentence you speak of is impossible.

It wasn't similar. There was no violence and no weapon. And in at least one case the prior crimes had also been robberies which netted very little.

So I'd USUALLY just say you were wrong, but since you have previously admitted that you twist facts and posters' statements to make a stronger case for yourself, I'm sticking with you're lying.

And that's in just that one post. Your first response to me egregiously misquoted me by including a comment I had never heard.

So no LOL; just lies.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject:

facepalm The similarity wasnt in the crimes being committed you nitwit. It was the legal principal that other criminal acts can result in lengthier or harsher sentences than normal. Plagarism and armed robbery are not the same. Your attempt to equate the two is embarrassing. You claim I've jumped the shark and made asinine arguments. Aye, I probably have. 5 years on here will do that. Free advice- this is your asinine argument. We all make em. I get the general theory of what you're saying- plagarism too can have sever consequences. But your examples are awful. No one who has had to deal with armed robbery is going to equate the two. Put your money where your mouth is. Walk into a liquor store copying a paper and burning some bootleg Bluerays vs. walking in with a .45 and tell me its all the same

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

*facepalm*

The similarity wasnt in the crimes being committed you nitwit. It was the legal principal that other criminal acts can result in lengthier or harsher sentences than normal.

Plagarism and armed robbery are not the same. Your attempt to equate the two is embarrassing. You claim I've jumped the shark and made asinine arguments. Aye, I probably have. 5 years on here will do that. Free advice- this is your asinine argument. We all make em. I get the general theory of what you're saying- plagarism too can have sever consequences. But your examples are awful. No one who has had to deal with armed robbery is going to equate the two.

Put your money where your mouth is. Walk into a liquor store copying a paper and burning some bootleg Bluerays vs. walking in with a .45 and tell me its all the same

Let me help you understand.

In the Bible it states; "Thou shalt not steal." It doesn't say it's OK to steal just a little, it doesn't say it's OK to steal if you don't use a gun, it doesn't say it's OK to steal if it's an invention, or a song, or someone else's research.

It's all the same.

BTW my examples you cite are NOT examples supporting my argument; they demonstrate how wrong gunga din's examples were.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

I haven't sided with anyone here. I haven't even addressed the whole issue. Your worldview is very black and white. Very simple.

I only pointed out that your assertion that there isn't any violent crime in Korea, or that it is much less violent, is demonstratably false. You keep bringing up the fact that murder must be different here. You're still comparing it to ganglands in the US. You have no idea what the situation is in Canada, Australia, the UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ.

I suspect you believe there is no violent crime in Korea for the same reason that many Americans, including yourself apparently, believe that crime is exploding in the US when in reality it's declining. You watch sensationalist news in the US, and you don't consume any news here. If Korea had 24 news channels and you watched it all day, I'm sure you would believe that there is a crazy amount of crime here. If there were good dramas here about meth dealers or corrupt police officers in Daegu, I'm sure you'd think differently. But as it is, you live in a bubble. Which isn't terrible, I do too. But at least I'm intelligent to recognize it.

Just last night I was talking to a foreign woman who told me she's been sexually assaulted twice just walking down the street here. Korea isn't the crime free utopia you think it is. It's a normal country with normal problems, just like every other country. I'm sorry that you think I'm a hater for not thinking it's some sort of magical kingdom with rainbows and unicorns.

Like I said, you have a very, very simple worldview.

Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

. You're still comparing it to ganglands in the US. You have no idea what the situation is in Canada, Australia, the UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ.

I suspect you believe there is no violent crime in Korea for the same reason that many Americans, including yourself apparently, believe that crime is exploding in the US when in reality it's declining. You watch sensationalist news in the US, and you don't consume any news here. If Korea had 24 news channels and you watched it all day, I'm sure you would believe that there is a crazy amount of crime here. If there were good dramas here about meth dealers or corrupt police officers in Daegu, I'm sure you'd think differently. But as it is, you live in a bubble. Which isn't terrible, I do too. But at least I'm intelligent to recognize it.

Just last night I was talking to a foreign woman who told me she's been sexually assaulted twice just walking down the street here. Korea isn't the crime free utopia you think it is. It's a normal country with normal problems, just like every other country. I'm sorry that you think I'm a hater for not thinking it's some sort of magical kingdom with rainbows and unicorns.

Like I said, you have a very, very simple worldview.

I said that there was a comparably lower risk of things like armed robbery, as evidenced by the utter lack of security measures at things like CUs and the complete lack of worry people have towards muggings here.

I for one do consume Korean news, and I know the crime statistics back home.

But that doesn't change the fact that if I were to work in a Lotteria here, I'd have virtually no worry about getting robbed on the job. I lived with that fear every time a customer walked through the door back home whom I didn't recognize. I don't see bulletproof glass anywhere. I haven't been threatened by any gangs of youths. Of course Koreans have gangs and their kids do dumb stuff, but the fact is that both Korea in terms of violent theft, is much better. Theft is not theft. If it were, violent theft would match the plagarism rate. And if we were soooo culturally against theft back home, our robbery and burglary rate would be way lower.

Quote:

Korea isn't the crime free utopia you think it is.

Never claimed it was. But to suggest that somehow Koreans are more prone to "theft" because of plagiarism is just a selective interpretation of theft. And frankly, I'd rather deal with some kid copying some paper I wrote than having a gun shoved in my face and having to hand over the register.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:55 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Quote:

Korea isn't the crime free utopia you think it is.

sr wrote:

Quote:

But to suggest that somehow Koreans are more prone to "theft" because of plagiarism is just a selective interpretation of theft.

Can you direct me to the post that suggested that?

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject:

Smithington wrote:

Before the apologists arrive let me say that there is corruption in every country. Having stated that, however, let me say another thing. In most Western countries it's the corrupt 1% who engage in such unscrupulous behavior. In my experience it is not the 99%. They are the one's rightly outraged by the minority of corrupt people.

In Korea, however, it seems that the corrupt are the 99%. From Samsung CEO's to the lowliest mum and pop hogwan corruption is rampant here. Politicians, the police, school boards, and pretty much everyone else. Even Koreans admit it (while engaging in it themselves). As your adult students what they dislike most about Korea and they'll likely say the corruption. But they would never dream of engaging in it themselves, however.

In Asia, people don't have a conscience. (Some Koreans have admitted this.) What they have instead is a sense of shame. That doesn't mean everyone is that way of course. But, us (even the athiests amongst us) are influenced by 2000 years of Christian culture to give us a guilty conscience and a sense of remorse. We consider it shameful to do dishonest things, so long as we "don't get caught". To be sure, many western people's behaviour is slipping and changing in these regards. (One only need look to the 2008 financial crash to see what it's like to not have a conscience or a soul.)

In Asia, it's saving face and a sense shame, historically followed by very harsh punishments for the most minor infraction because folks often couldn't be trusted and needed to be kept in line. It's not guilt that keeps some folks out of trouble so much as shame and face. If you don't get caught and can get ahead, well, that's why you see this crap over here. Maybe that's why they need so many laws, rules, and government intrusions (even if we complain about it - me too). Not sure on that last point; just grasping at straws. That said, many Koreans do want to change the nature and attitudes of their society and fight back against these things.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject:

Steelrails wrote:

You're still missing the point (intentionally, I presume). You can't take your very specific experience and claim it's representative of "back home" for everyone. Especially when your specific experience is such an outlier and changes with every conversation on this board. Very, very few people here grew up on a farm in the middle of a ghetto while working in a gang infested fast food joint next to an airport on the coast while flying planes and sailing boats, all while being coming experts in law, politics, history, international trade and physics.

The stats prove that most of us aren't from areas more dangerous than Korea. You keep trying to minimize these stats by claiming it's a different kind of violent crime, and then just denying the stats exist.

I grew up in a big city. There wasn't bullet proof glass everywhere. I worked nights and never feared for my well being. There weren't drive bys, and I've never actually even seen a gun besides on law enforcers. I was never a victim of violent crime, and I only had one family member who was years ago (mentally ill man shoved her on the street and she fell. Or what we call rush hour on the green line in Seoul. At least the guy in my hometown had a medical excuse). Unlike you, I'm not going to apply that tiny experience to 7 different countries around the world and claim that we all come from crime free places. But neither can you use your ever changing personal experience and force us all to accept it as the norm in which to do comparisons.

Let me repeat, Korea has higher violent crime rates than 5/7 of the English speaking countries. The USA is the exception (along with SA, which is another can of worms), and even there it's mostly concentrated in certain areas. You keep taking those extreme cases and comparing it to a fictionalized version of Korea you've made up.

As has been prove again and again, you're simply wrong and you refuse to admit it. Which would be fine, it's the internet after all, but you just keep repeating the lies again and again. It's pathological.

Quote:

Super, but as has been proven you're actually more likely to be a victim of violent crime in Korea than in Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ, and large swaths of the USA. So, again, your point is not only invalid but completely false.

I look forward to repeating exactly what you've been writing, completely ignoring reality. Throw some accusations of racism or me being a hater in there. You know, to keep it interesting. You're a little overdue for it anyway.

radcon

Joined: 23 May 2011

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject:

Mr. Black Cat: Why do you keep saying that Korea has more violent crime than the countries we come from? In this analysis, Korea is one of the safest countries in the world. http://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp

Weigookin74

Joined: 26 Oct 2009

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject:

Weigookin74 wrote:

Smithington wrote:

Adding to the point I said before, this article I found attahced to the one the Op provided explained about North Korea (which of course still has traditional Asian and Korean thinking). The South is moderizing in many ways and the North is not.

http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/Article.aspx?aid=2997111

""" For Lee, the main reason he began to study English in South Korea was because he met many foreigners working in the area of North Korean human rights. Even when he was in the North, he didn’t pay attention to people who suffered from hunger, never even considering a life spent helping others, he said. """

Outside your group and friends, screw 'em, they don't exist. What can I get for me? Of course this is changing as I said before. Many Koreans are becoming more aware but have often ignored those around them. Charitibale giving I'm told is far less by big companies than it is back home, for example.

Display posts from previous:

	Korean Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion Forum	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Page 4 of 5

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe