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talentedcrayon
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Location: Why do you even care?
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 Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Guys... take this elsewhere (as stated above).
This is a serious issue.
Even if this extra employer wasn't allowed to sponsor them, this is still immis fault. Immi told them they had permission. Immi is supposed to be the final word.
Just imagine... You go into a police station to ask if a particular action is illegal (say parking your car somewhere.) The police say: "yeah, no problem, here we will even give you this document that says it is."
Ten minutes later you find your car being towed away.
You ask the police and they say: "You were breaking the law!"
When you reference the piece of paper they give you, they just shrug their shoulders and pretend they never gave it to you.
This is basically what some of these teachers are claiming. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Immi only told a small subset of them that they could. The majority were just ignorant of the laws. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
Ethne Education used to advertise all of their jobs at w35,000 an hour. I wondered who would get in the car and drive to a job, teach for an hour before driving home for that rate. Now I know who: muppets!
The penalty on Ethne is too small. This we didn't know the law is nonsense and irrelevent. Ethne would have been charging companies between w90,000 and w120,000 an hour for a native teacher.
A w20 million fine doesn't even cover the extra profit they made by paying w35k instead of 50k assuming each of the 120 teachers only taught a 12 week course.
As for the E2s, the law is bad, but not as bad as selling yourself and others short by getting out of bed early and working illegally for USD$10 an hour. If you are young and cute and working illegally you should be charging more than a fat old guy like me who has the right visa/citizenship. |
I agree the penalty is too small. With that said, calling people muppets for taking a 35,000won an hour class is a but much isnt it? Maybe those people arent as self-righteous as yourself, and will take money where it comes to them. But let me guess...you would prefer others not take such jobs to preserve your own inflated pay-rate?
I have the F- Visa, and I will happily take a 35/hour class all day and night long if it makes me money. You may be able to pull a higher rate and congrats to you for that, but you are not the trend setting and your attitude makes me want to teach for even 20,000 just to piss mofos like you off/depress your market.
Relax.You will get the money you deserve to get. Other people charging less should not be a concern for you unless you feel they are competition |
I guess that you aren't a business major otherwise you would have a clear understanding of the difference between income and revenue.
If you teach the kid next door without preparing a lesson in their home and you get 35k an hour this is income, and illegal for visaholders and citizens (there is an exception for students but I'm unsure if it extends to any visa holder).
If you prepare lessons travel, teach for an hour then travel again 35k is revenue. You need to deduct the cost of travel, the phone calls, the materials that you prep, possibly some decent clothing and you could even put a value on your time. If you think 35k an hour is worth this then you are a muppet. It may be worth it if you are teaching an 8 hour block but not for 1 hour. |
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coralreefer_1
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| big_fella1 wrote: |
| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
| big_fella1 wrote: |
Ethne Education used to advertise all of their jobs at w35,000 an hour. I wondered who would get in the car and drive to a job, teach for an hour before driving home for that rate. Now I know who: muppets!
The penalty on Ethne is too small. This we didn't know the law is nonsense and irrelevent. Ethne would have been charging companies between w90,000 and w120,000 an hour for a native teacher.
A w20 million fine doesn't even cover the extra profit they made by paying w35k instead of 50k assuming each of the 120 teachers only taught a 12 week course.
As for the E2s, the law is bad, but not as bad as selling yourself and others short by getting out of bed early and working illegally for USD$10 an hour. If you are young and cute and working illegally you should be charging more than a fat old guy like me who has the right visa/citizenship. |
I agree the penalty is too small. With that said, calling people muppets for taking a 35,000won an hour class is a but much isnt it? Maybe those people arent as self-righteous as yourself, and will take money where it comes to them. But let me guess...you would prefer others not take such jobs to preserve your own inflated pay-rate?
I have the F- Visa, and I will happily take a 35/hour class all day and night long if it makes me money. You may be able to pull a higher rate and congrats to you for that, but you are not the trend setting and your attitude makes me want to teach for even 20,000 just to piss mofos like you off/depress your market.
Relax.You will get the money you deserve to get. Other people charging less should not be a concern for you unless you feel they are competition |
I guess that you aren't a business major otherwise you would have a clear understanding of the difference between income and revenue.
If you teach the kid next door without preparing a lesson in their home and you get 35k an hour this is income, and illegal for visaholders and citizens (there is an exception for students but I'm unsure if it extends to any visa holder).
If you prepare lessons travel, teach for an hour then travel again 35k is revenue. You need to deduct the cost of travel, the phone calls, the materials that you prep, possibly some decent clothing and you could even put a value on your time. If you think 35k an hour is worth this then you are a muppet. It may be worth it if you are teaching an 8 hour block but not for 1 hour. |
I have enough business understanding to know that money in my pocket is better than not making any at all. To me, a 35/hr rate is for a class with 9 year old Soomin...whos mother pays for her Let's Go book. My transportation fee is the cost of a subway ride ( 1800owon round trip.) The cost of a phone is not even worth mentioning. Clothes? Well I already have a full wardrobe of decent clothes..i dont exactly need to go shopping because of a new class.
Now, since you want to question my business sense...let me throw it back at you. Do you add the cost of the fruit/coffee/gifts in one form or another those lessons usually provide? How about the idea that for every class you make, the potential for expansion and acquisition of other classes and client base?
Little Soomin's mom has friends. Friends she speaks to about how much little Soomin enjoys her class. Those friends want a teacher too. Guess what happens? I spend the same transportation fee, and teach 4 classes set up back to back all in the same apartment complex. Now I have 4 mothers in my network. One of those mother's asks to teach their high school aged student grammar and writing for an SAT exam they hope to take twice a week. For that class I charge 65/hr.
Then guess what happens? The husband of one of Soomin's mom's friends is a professor and doctor at a local national university...that asks that I edit his PPT presentations and work with his fluency and speech for oral presentation at various conferences and presentations,and for his classes at the university each. For that I can (and do) charge 100,000won for the PPT edit, and 60,000/hr for the face to face pronunciation class.
So yes, I will take a 35/hr class because I have been here long enough to know how such can snowball into much much more than 35/hr. This is not a pie in the sky fantasy. This is what I am doing now. If I am a muppet because I prefer to make money rather than sitting on my hands waiting for perfect 80/hr jobs to fall on my lap...then call me Kermit! |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| Grats Bigfella and Coralreefer you never disagreed with each other in the first place. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Coltronator wrote: |
| Yeah that group of people who did get Ethne added to their Visa should not be at fault. They did their due diligence and that is Immi's fault. They are the subset who have a good case if they take it that way. |
did they teach at the ethne office which was the address that was added?
I thought this was private lessons at their homes. If so, no. they have no case. There have been many people busted for working at franchise which isn't on their visa before. Hagwon owner has 2 locations only puts one address on the visa, and makes them work at both, then they get caught. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Alongtheway you are correct however that is part of the issue. Immi knows what kind of company Ethne is. They know very well yet still okay'd the Visa changes.
They aren't free of all wrongdoing but it should be a mark in their favour that they tried doing it the right way. Heck maybe it was and that is why some got 1mil fines and others got 5mil+. |
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Otus
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| There have been many people busted for working at franchise which isn't on their visa before. Hagwon owner has 2 locations only puts one address on the visa, and makes them work at both, then they get caught. |
That has been happening for at least 20 years now. I knew someone who got busted for that in '97 and he had no idea before it happened. One employer, two hagwons, only one address on his E2. It was simply a lottery in terms of who got caught and who didn't and there was no way the average FOB, even having done a reasonable amount of research about things, was going to have prior knowledge about this. In no small way because the hagwon bosses/sponsors, whom many had to at least partially trust, were either ignorant of it, or if they weren't, of course weren't going to inform the employee.
Even on boards such as this, such information was never clearly spelled out. Anyone who posted on here after being busted would immediately be flamed with a barrage of posts telling them it was entirely their fault for breaking the law, yet clear information on exactly what that law was never really got disseminated. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Coltronator wrote: |
Alongtheway you are correct however that is part of the issue. Immi knows what kind of company Ethne is. They know very well yet still okay'd the Visa changes.
They aren't free of all wrongdoing but it should be a mark in their favour that they tried doing it the right way. Heck maybe it was and that is why some got 1mil fines and others got 5mil+. |
Maybe they didn't. Maybe they (immigration) were told they'd be tutoring at the office, but were actually sent out. |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I thought that Ethne handled business classes as they were the only jobs that I saw them advertise or that they approached me about. To legally teach a company class an E2 isn't valid and a person would need to add E7 status to their E2 visa, which could be difficult. Ignorance of the law is no excuse but it would be fairer to follow the money when deciding on penalties.
To reiterate my earlier statement if you travel to a company and then teach for 1 hour and then go home for 35k you are a muppet.
If you teach Soomin in Soomin's house on an F-visa or even as a citizen then you are violating Education and possibly tax law but not immigration law although good luck getting a visa renewal if you're caught.
I do not have a sense of entitlement to receive 70k an hour, as that is far less than I get paid in Australia.[/b] |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Big Fella is almost 100% correct.
With a tutor's license you can teach Soomin 100% legally as long as you charge no more than 11-15k/hr. (depending on what the rate set by your local MOE is) |
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big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Coltronator wrote: |
Big Fella is almost 100% correct.
With a tutor's license you can teach Soomin 100% legally as long as you charge no more than 11-15k/hr. (depending on what the rate set by your local MOE is) |
I thought that for a tutors licence you had to register a gonggubang (sorry no Korean Keyboard) which means that you can only teach in your home. Some MOE also limit you to w7000 per studemt per hour  |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:36 am Post subject: |
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| No you have to register as either an in home business/study room or as a tutor but not both. Both licenses also allow you to register a Business that provides Language Services to other businesses (Not a legal issue but the Business Tax Registration office requires proof of the validity of the business and accepts an MOE Study room or Tutor's license. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| That doesn't make sense since the MoE has absolutely no say in an adult teaching another adult English privately, but you still need to register taxes for it over a certain income level. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| You are correct Alongtheway. But the Tax Registration Office will accept (not require, accept) as proof of the validity of the business plan. |
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