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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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 Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
That is nice, don't get me wrong...though if scenery were my number one priority I think I'd be back in Canada still.
I, however, have a 5-minute commute to my nearest coffee shop. Perhaps mindmetoo would care to jump in and extol the virtues of living close to a coffee shop with me? |
Like most people, my needs and wants in a home have increased and changed over the years. Scenery definitely wasn't a factor until recently. My priorities were always: (1) Will I be able to make the rent & deposit without fail, every month?; and (2) Are the number, size & layout of rooms suitable for studying and working? After I reached the point where I could start to afford some luxuries, it wasn't a view or scenery that I wanted first. It was space to entertain friends.
Also, I didn't care much about the commute time to the office, and indeed most Koreans I've worked with generally don't seem to make a large deal of that either. Certainly not enough to drag their home and family across Seoul just to be closer to dad's job.
A side issue: Am I wrong, or do ex-pats here tend to byatch louder about a 30-minute commute in Seoul than they would about a 90-minute (and much more expensive) commute back in their own countries? They definitely byatch louder than most Koreans who have even longer commutes. |
My k girlfriend oftencomplains about her long commutes to work and rightly so. She is far from a whiner but like me and many people don't like wasting their life sitting (or standing) next to complete strangers in stuffy public transport with all the levity of a morgue |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Nice house Jongnoguru. How much? |
Do you mean the house we're remodelling? How much for what, rent or sale? We've only just started. Won't be able to quote a price until the work is finished. |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Nice house Jongnoguru. How much? |
Do you mean the house we're remodelling? How much for what, rent or sale? We've only just started. Won't be able to quote a price until the work is finished. |
How much did you pay for the property. As for the remodelling, what will that run you? I was thinking of buying an apartment but looking at your house, I think Id rather buy something like that instead. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
My k girlfriend oftencomplains about her long commutes to work and rightly so. She is far from a whiner but like me and many people don't like wasting their life sitting (or standing) next to complete strangers in stuffy public transport with all the levity of a morgue |
"complete strangers... stuffy.... levity of a morgue"
You know, you'll find that public transportation in any major metropolis is hardly a party on wheels. Your girlfriend notwithstanding, Koreans gripe less than most ex-pats in Korea I've met. Well, let me qualify that -- less than posters I've read on Dave's. When Koreans gripe about it, it's more a shrugging commentary about the times -- "Gee, I hate this long commute. Gee, isn't Seoul polluted?"
For a lot of posters on this board -- many of whom I'm sure commuted two or even three hours a day in their own countries -- the mere thought of spending an hour or more a day in commute here is suddenly unacceptable. How come?
Here are two of my own theories. I have others, but chew these over a bit first. Refute them if you want, but please, not by using yourself or what your girl/boyfriend says, as I'll only consider that an exception that proves my theory.
1. Many of you are straight out of school and haven't had a job in a big city where you had to commute any serious distance. You're used to walking, cycling or rollerblading to school, so 45 minutes on a bus or subway each way seems like a daily appointment with the dentist. It's not that such commutes are universally viewed as being insufferable -- it's just that you haven't experienced it yet.
2. A 90-minute drive in your own car with the tunes blasting away is not the pain in the a$$ that a 45-minute subway/bus ride with a bunch of Korean strangers is. It's all well and good to extol the virtues of Korea's fast, modern, extensive, clean, safe (crime-wise), and affordable mass transit system. But when it comes right down to you as individuals, I'd bet (whatever your political leaning may be) a whole lot of you'd be doing a whole lot less byatching if you drove your own car here. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
safe (crime-wise), and affordable mass transit system. |
Well, just picking at the tiniest piece of your post, jng, what do you mean "safe (crime-wise)" anyway. That seems to imply that it may not be safe in other ways. |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
For a lot of posters on this board -- many of whom I'm sure commuted two or even three hours a day in their own countries -- the mere thought of spending an hour or more a day in commute here is suddenly unacceptable. How come?
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I can't speak for these "many" people, as I never had a long commute in my home country. I'll let them debate your theories with you, if they are bored enough. |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
safe (crime-wise), and affordable mass transit system. |
Well, just picking at the tiniest piece of your post, jng, what do you mean "safe (crime-wise)" anyway. That seems to imply that it may not be safe in other ways. |
There are a lot of traffic accidents in Seoul because most people drive like psychos. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Nice house Jongnoguru. How much? |
Do you mean the house we're remodelling? How much for what, rent or sale? We've only just started. Won't be able to quote a price until the work is finished. |
How much did you pay for the property. As for the remodelling, what will that run you? I was thinking of buying an apartment but looking at your house, I think Id rather buy something like that instead. |
Good taste requires me to be a bit evasive here, DW. I'll give you the standard spiel: I paid more than I should have, but will sell it for less than it's worth. 
Rather than a prurient interest in my personal finances, I do think you're genuinely interested in what things cost. So what you need to do is see what's available at what price, study recent price trends, etc. This would be a more useful starting point if I knew which areas you were interested in:
http://r114.realestate.yahoo.co.kr/scripts2/room/hmeme/area.asp?only=500&jong=1&kind=0#����Ư����
Here's a random comparison you might find informative.
Place "A"
A property I've been looking at since last year.
75-pyeong lot
90-pyeong house
30-pyeong (approx.) garden
"B" ~ "B+" grade views
There are two units (a 4-bed, 3-bath on the upper two stories; a 2-bed, 1-bath large "half-basement" unit that rents for 800k/mo.)
Currently offered at 540 mil. won. (down from 675 mil. two years ago)
I know a bit about the history of this house, some of its apparent problems. (Most buyers aren't architects or structural engineers. Hence they are easily spooked when see certain things, particularly cracks and leaks.) My sense is the seller is haggleable. 470? Lower? This is a distress sale that's on it's last legs, and the house could well go to auction. My hunch/worry, though, is that this particular property could fetch a higher price at auction than one might be able to negotiate beforehand.
The house and the grounds could use about 50 mil. won in remodelling and landscaping, but it is certainly more than livable "as is". Really quite nice, in fact. Just begging for a little attention and TLC.
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Place "B"
My friends looked at 35-pyeong (about 26 real pyeong) apartments in Gaepo-dong/Daichi-dong last year. Everything they liked was in the high 600s to high 700 million range. They can't really afford that, and they haven't any kids, so paying such a premium for proximity to good schools makes no sense. Now they're looking at places like "A".
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There are so many factors to consider in buying property here. Are you buying a place for yourself to live long term, or are you looking to buy & sell and bank a quick profit? What is your Korea time-frame? Where will you be or want to be in five years? Are you prepared to ride out long-term downswings in the market? Would it kill you to sell at little or no profit -- or even a loss -- if you have to leave unexpectedly? (I've seen that happen too many times.) List the things that might become crucial to you several years down the road that currently aren't priorities, or even considerations.
We should continue this over on that older thread... What was it? "How to Buy a House in Korea"?
Anyway, I've got to check on kitchen tiles now. PM me with specific questions if you're of a mind, DW.
Refugee, there have been a couple of major subway disasters, and bus drivers drive like animals. Hence, although the odds are infitesimally small, you might actually stand a greater chance of being burnt to a crisp or crushed in a collision than you do of being mugged or knived on public transport.
The Guru. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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edit error
Last edited by R. S. Refugee on Thu May 05, 2005 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
For a lot of posters on this board -- many of whom I'm sure commuted two or even three hours a day in their own countries -- the mere thought of spending an hour or more a day in commute here is suddenly unacceptable. How come? |
I've done the insane commute thing in Canada, and I've been blessed in that I don't have to do it so much here. I've never noticed westerners falling asleep on their neighbors shoulder, like Koreans do. Most of the time it's not a big deal, but once in a while, you get someone who drools a little, talks in their sleep, or smears lipstick on your shirt- that's where my limits lie.
Maybe that's the answer you were looking for? |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
For a lot of posters on this board -- many of whom I'm sure commuted two or even three hours a day in their own countries -- the mere thought of spending an hour or more a day in commute here is suddenly unacceptable. How come? |
I've done the insane commute thing in Canada, and I've been blessed in that I don't have to do it so much here. I've never noticed westerners falling asleep on their neighbors shoulder, like Koreans do. Most of the time it's not a big deal, but once in a while, you get someone who drools a little, talks in their sleep, or smears lipstick on your shirt- that's where my limits lie.
Maybe that's the answer you were looking for? |
(Who woke up this sleepy old thread?)
Trying to remember what was on my mind when I wrote that...
OK, right. "Super-long commute back home? No big deal; An hour each way here in Korea? Not bloody likely!" <-- That's the attitude that I find odd. I figure it's often a matter of housing near their (city) job back home being unaffordable or perhaps unsafe, crime-wise; whereas, that's probably not the case in Korea. And if someone is teaching morning/night spilt shifts, living an hour or more away from work would be hell.
Then there is the handful of ex-pats I've met who simply loathe public transportation here, regardless of how near or far they live from their office. They don't like being the only foreigner in a crowded subway carriage or bus, and they each have "commuting anecdotes from hell" to convince me how horrible the experience can be. Most but not all of these have been women. They will usually buy a car, whatever their income or their feelings & fears about driving in Seoul, and naturally they have their "driving-in-Korea anecdotes from hell" because of it, but those are considered preferable to the alternative, apparently. |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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I used to complain about the traffic on my 14-21 minute (had it well timed) commute back home, but now I don't care about the hour I spend on the bus to and from work.
I can read, listen to music, stare out of the window like a zombie, or even sleep now. Much better than stop start traffic in my crappy volvo. |
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