Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Homer]

Cool CM,
I have only driven in Korea a few times myself and found it a hairy experience...
They do drive like maniacs...especially cabbies and buses!

[Homer]

N-Dog,

My mistake about the "being Korean" bit, my apologies.

As for generalizations they are of course normal ans do serve a purpose. But blanket statements demeaning a population are not the same as statement of general facts.

Lets look closer shall we?

You had a great example(s) of a general statement:

1 most koreans eat kimchi - generalisation : true or false ?

2 most koreans havent travelled outside of their country - true or false ?

These are both true and they can be verified. They are then valid general comments.

Then:

3 most koreans act in a way that shows their Yugyo/ confucian heriatge : true or false ?

4 most koreans have no real knowledge of westerners, as they are not close friends with them- although some have come into contact with westerners at Uni. or a hagwon. - true or false ?

These two comments are also somewhat true but are harder to verify and to infer as a general behavior or fact statement.

But, these 4 comments you made are not the same as the other general comments you made in other posts. You did some nice editing there.

Now the #5 is a dandy...


most koreans , because they havent travelled abroad, met/ know well many foreigners and get most of their information from TV, internet and newspapers or teachers at school - all of which they feel reluctant to criticise due to their Yugyo worldview ( the media / education are all highly partisan and xenophobic - can anyone give an example of a non partisan Korean media outlet ) seem limited , ethnocentric and mistaken in their view of foreigners in their mist .

I don't disagree with it as a proposition. I do have reservations about it as logical conclusion from the 1-4.
It is true that most Koreans have not travelled abroad but this is less and less true as Koreans travel more and more to asia.
This type of travel is the same as a North American traveling to the US or Canada or a Brit to Western Europe.
Koreans travel less then your average westerner because their means allow them less freedom to travel.
As for information and their processing of it, thats a rather unstable foundation to draw conculsions on. TV and mass media and their influence on population is not a quantified or direct fact.
Koreans do not of course know much about foreigners because there are not very many of us in Korea. Korea is also a very ethically homogenous nation. This in fact is true of most asian nations.
The recent influx of foreigners here means growing pains just like it was in western nations in the past. Some Koreans react badly some react well. I find that many Koreans are generous and kind to foreigners. Some are idiots but to me thats no different than in any nation. This racist or xenophobic attittude is present in all nations, it just takes different forms.
It seems to be more direct and "in your face" in Korea as opposed to hidden and institutionalized in most western nations.

Now your conclusion:

or maybe i should agree with you - yeah in general koreans foillow no social rules, have no underlying social beliefs and attitudes , but rather exhibit non-linear, self manifesting individualistic worldviews that makes the country unique in the world. Whooo.

I am not asking you to agree with me. I also do not think or say Koreans have no social rules or underlying social beliefs. What I do think however is that too many foreigners tend to paint Korea as all bad with general comments and by simple contrast to paint their home nations as all better.
I also find it hard to understand why someone who likes Korea as to be a lunatic or blind or wrong?
Most people (myself) included are not under the illusion that Korea is paradise. I see the bad and the good here. I can also recognize general patterns of behavior. But, one has to be careful about general comments, that is about the wording of these comments.
Using general patterns and drawing conclusions from them that are not warranted. Example:
1- Korea is ethically homogenous

Conclusion: All koreans are racist.

Is that valid N-Dog? A reasonable and honest person would say no.

Other example:

1- Koreans bump into each other in the street a lot.

Conclusion: Koreans are rude and do not care for others.

True or false N-Dog?

A simple query would reveal that lack of space in Korea means that they are used to this lack of personnal space and do not consider it rude to bump into each other on the street.
Some foreigners take this and imply that Koreans bump into each other out of malice or on purpose. Is that a logical or even valid conclusion N-Dog?
Or is it even a valid general comment?

So, we don't have to agree with each other. But you don't have to imply that I am blind or don't see the thruth..or are you the sole guardian of the thruth?

[half_pint]

CM, you are a brave little monkey - I don't think I could drive here. I would think starting something new like that could cause you to experience a little culture shock all over again, no matter how long you have been here. It's one of those things that's just so different from home, it can make you crazy. The way Koreans drive is accepted here, and for us it makes no sense; of course it's hard to deal with. I am still always a little surprised when a car runs a light and comes close to hitting me. I can't imagine trying to drive.

CLG - pubs can be great, but I actually got the nickname because of my poor drinking ability. Hee hee! I love chocolate and a good movie as much as the next girl and it is a great way to wind down. And I just got a free VCR from a friend, woo hoo!

[Circus Monkey]

[Homer]

Good point CM,

Advertising does have an effect on people....but I don't think it influences or dicates people's views or knowledge of another culture. It can certainly give them some clues but it does not translate into direct opinion.

[narsty dog]

homer , i m a liitle drunk now and watching an unusual french film directed by michael haneke , an austrian to the best of my knowledge . being a bit tipsy i think what you wrote was well argued - if i were sober i m sure i d say the same - respect to you man , you have something worthwhile to say . actually i love koreans so much it hurts me when they reject me . any self respecting psychologist should have worked this out from my writings by now .

peace, homer .

ND

[Circus Monkey]

Homer,

I see where you're coming from but I wouldn't be so quick to write off the influence of movies, the Internet, and newspapers upon how a person views another culture. After all, what do some of us teachers use to help Koreans learn English - authentic materials, right? The conclusions that a Korean draws from a piece of media are his own, but doesn't that snippet from a movie, etc... offer a glimpse into the culture? We could, of course, argue about how accurate the portrayal is, but that's another discussion.

After all, if you were researching about another country and short of physically travelling there or the availability of people from there, what would you use to form an opinion about it?

The reason why I chose advertising is because everyone recognizes the fact that it is specifically designed to persuade, while movies, etc... are merely conveying a story (with underlying messages) or newspapers are reporting information.

CM

[Ody]

the only reason,
that's where my life-long friends are.

[Gord]

[girl]

is this the same topic that it started out as???

hmmm...

let's see half pint, let me tell you, i went through the same thing as everyone else too. and i thought i would okay since i am a korean american but it was so hard!! my phone bills were outrageous (didn't know about phone cards), email addicted and all i could do was mope and say how much korea sucked.

then, in december (7 months) i took my first trip outside of korea. i went to thailand for ten days and when i got back i was a totally different person. i went out more often and i actually did a complete turnaround and started to like korea. i guess it all depends on the people you work with, where you work, and who you make friends with. that's what happened with me. so hang in there, it'll get better. if you can afford it take a trip outside of korea, trust me it'll do a world of good.

[Row]

OK, i can try and help you out with a bit of info about food. If you ever go to itaewon, go to the restaurant "Ali Baba's" there are two branches I think, one near the mosque, and the other up some way past the hamilton hotel, past hollywood's. So in the opposite direction from KFC etc. Anyway, point is they have a great falafel sandwich, and hummus...and lots more. Go and try it out sometime!!

[Harpeau]

I think that each of us having the power to choose to leave here at any time helps us to cope. If one feels like there is no choice in the matter, then that automatically makes the experience much more stressful.

I wake up in the morning and choose to be in Korea. Yet, some mornings I'm scrambing for loose change to get a bus out to the airport- but I'm happy to report that after having lived here for over 6 years, those mornings are much less frequent.

Today, Seoul is my drug of choice. Maybe it's sort of like the Woodman and New York, I'm not sure. But I love it here. I have awesome friends (though, two of them hoofed it to Taiwan this past Feb. really sucks!) and have a wonderful wife (what my buddy Todd sings "Soju mama").

I went through a hellish culture shock. The IMF crises hit in full swing in my 6th month- got laid off from one hogwan and then downsized from another one (after being there for only one week). I played ping pong over the abyss and eventually ended up in a university. Not too shabby!

In retrospect. What I found most helpful is a good Korean friend who was really there for me when I needed him most.

I hope that you find what you want. I would only advise- don't drink when your feeling down (alchohol is a depressant).
Also, be ready for anything. As Mike Scott sings: "If you want to see God laugh, then tell him (sic.) your plans!"


Take care and play hard!

Harpeau

[dogbert]

[Homer]

CM,

I am agreeing with you man.
I do believe advertising has an influence on people. That can be seen in society and in some very obvious forms. SUV sales in North America are the perfect example.
But, I am not ready to make the jump to say that advertising or various mass media becomes the basis of a people's knowledge about another culture.
It can be an introductionor a glimpse but I find it difficult to prove that this translates into behavior towards another culture.
It also depends what your definition of media is.

[half_pint]

Row, I have been to Ali Baba's once, and the falafels and hummus tasted great, but it was 16,000 won for 4 falafel balls! Do you remember paying that much? Maybe the other branch is cheaper. Oh well, it was just about worth it, and I will probably be going there again in the not-so-far future.

Thanks everyone for the support and advice. I actually feel a million times better now than I did a few days ago.