|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:00 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| jazblanc77 wrote: |
| As for house rules, I'd say your husband needs to step up to plate a bit and defend your wishes. This was very hard for my Korean wife as well but eventually the Family-in-law respected our rules. ...When my MIL and SIL visited, we simply wanted to see and talk to them but, they insisted on filling the entire visit with cleaning our apartment and telling my wife that we were pigs and she was a bad wife. |
Some very important points made -- and differences highlighted -- here. See? These things can be very hard even with husband and wife working together. And even when the poster is the husband (man of the house). And even when it's "just" the mother- and sister-in-law who are the source of the problem.
People should try to consider, and appreciate, how things might be very different for Casey's Moon. As foreign guys, we generally have final say about what goes and what doesn't in our homes, and we can basically proclaim any rule we damn well please, and nobody -- not even a Korean FATHER-in-law -- can seriously challenge us. But if you can't understand that things aren't so simple for DAUGHTERS-in-law of Korean parents, or even SONS of Korean parents, then some people must be posting from some other country.
| Quote: |
| my house is a place where I can find respite from the everyday pressures of life in Korea and a place where the culture of jazblanc77 and wife apply. |
Regardless of the fact that I think you're situation allows you to set the rules in a way that CM's does not, I want to say that was very sweetly put there, jazblanc77. I quite liked that.
Hey Squid. Yeah, I was sort of wondering if you were mistaken about the basics too with your first post. But you were/are correct, and that's something I was saying earlier -- a Korean father of CM's FiL's generation will tend to see/treat his son's home as his own home. It may not always or even ever be verbalised or demonstrated outwardly, but it's hardly a new mindset or unique to CM's FiL.
The good thing is, Casey's Moon is finding solutions to her problem, and ones that don't necessitate her or her husband morphing into something their not: foot-stamping, cultural iconoclasts prepared to disrupt family ties in order to get their way in a battle over something -- correct me if I'm wrong, Moon -- that represents no more than a few minutes out of a year. |
No need to correct you -- you got it right, as usual. All of it in fact. It's nice to feel so understood. Thanks, again Guru!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
dont do anything.. just let him smoke.. if anyone should ask him it should be your mother in law but she doesnt so.. you have no say..
just tollerate it.. and then when they go open up the windows and air out the house.. dont make a fuss. the air will be clear in 10 minutes.. |
That was about the worst suggestion I have read....I beg to differ...she does have a say! It's her house! If her FiL is ignorant enough to smoke in her house KNOWING how his DiL feels and her husband does not have the backbone to tell his father not to smoke in the house....she or whom ever, needs to set the rules. No smoking in my house. Don't like it...don't vist. Simple as that.
I respect your rules in your house...do the same in mine.
No smoking is allowed in the university where I work...but...the older korean professors do what they want and smoke in their offices with the windows open...when I smell it....they are older than me...I still tell them...no smoking in the building, take it outside. They grumble under their breath but take it outside.
1) Korea isn't the West, and there's a lot of unavoidable putting-up-with what our guests, elders, and "superiors" want; and, quote]
I think not. Just because it's not the west...makes it right? Respect is not given nor a given right, it's earned.
(2) quote... We can't really treat our inlaws -- and particularly parents-in-law -- the same as any random group of friends or colleagues who happen to drop over.
Again, not to start an arguement...but we can expect the in-laws to respect our concerns. Just because they are in-laws does not give them permission to do as they want in my home. I would not in the least be offended telling the FiL to not smoke. I'd use tact the first time in asking him to please respect my request...if he did not...I'd tell him to don't let the door hit you in your ass on the way out. |
go back home buddy! you really dont belong here!
how do you manage here I really dont know...
fact is this is KOREA! you dont come here and make the rules ok!!!
koreans shouldnt have to change becuase you dont like it!
you dont like it!"? go back home!!
THE FATHER INLAW has HUGE STATUS in korea!
she just needs to SUCK IT UP and put up with it!
like her husband said.. even the mentioning of telling him to not smoke is rude! there is no diplomatic solution it will leave bad air doesnt matter how kindly or diplomatic you word it..
first of all.. he should know better.. most korean men would go out into the stairwell.. or the balcony..
most korean fathers I know their wives never let them smoke inside!
but I guess in this case.. that father is the REAL korean ADOSI type and listened to know one but himself..
my advice again.. dont do anything!
its not worth making a fuss over.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Harpeau wrote: |
I'm totally with Grotto on this one. Nobody smokes in our house. You wanna smoke. Out on the balcony. I've sent some important Koreans out there to the embarrassment of my wife. The good thing is that it is irrespective of persons. I treat all smokers the same. Fresh air is very important for me. I've got to breath lots of crap when I sing & play guitar in pubs. I come home and my hair and clothes stink to high heaven of smoke. I need my fresh air. Maybe I'm being a tad rude, but I think smoking in another person's home that doesn't wish to have it is much ruder.
Harpeau
Please try not to smoke and I'll try not to fart!  |
yes but you are a male! you are not a western female married to a korean male ! so your advice doesnt quite work now does it!
you have to remember her situation! its a very delicate one!
and as westerners or males we can easily say.. tell the old fart to get out side and smoke! tell him I hate smoking and dont smoke anywhere near me! this kind of advice doesnt work in this situation!
its already a big deal that their son married a foreign woman.. now she is gonna tell her father inlaw what he can and cant do ! I dont think so!!!
casey follow your husbands lead on this one! its his father let me deal with it.. just drop it and dont make an issue of it anymore.. its not worth fighting over or getting upset over..
you know how delicate this situation is on a traditional stand point..
you cant tell him to not smoke! you know that!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| itaewonguy wrote: |
| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
dont do anything.. just let him smoke.. if anyone should ask him it should be your mother in law but she doesnt so.. you have no say..
just tollerate it.. and then when they go open up the windows and air out the house.. dont make a fuss. the air will be clear in 10 minutes.. |
That was about the worst suggestion I have read....I beg to differ...she does have a say! It's her house! If her FiL is ignorant enough to smoke in her house KNOWING how his DiL feels and her husband does not have the backbone to tell his father not to smoke in the house....she or whom ever, needs to set the rules. No smoking in my house. Don't like it...don't vist. Simple as that.
I respect your rules in your house...do the same in mine.
No smoking is allowed in the university where I work...but...the older korean professors do what they want and smoke in their offices with the windows open...when I smell it....they are older than me...I still tell them...no smoking in the building, take it outside. They grumble under their breath but take it outside.
1) Korea isn't the West, and there's a lot of unavoidable putting-up-with what our guests, elders, and "superiors" want; and, quote]
I think not. Just because it's not the west...makes it right? Respect is not given nor a given right, it's earned.
(2) quote... We can't really treat our inlaws -- and particularly parents-in-law -- the same as any random group of friends or colleagues who happen to drop over.
Again, not to start an arguement...but we can expect the in-laws to respect our concerns. Just because they are in-laws does not give them permission to do as they want in my home. I would not in the least be offended telling the FiL to not smoke. I'd use tact the first time in asking him to please respect my request...if he did not...I'd tell him to don't let the door hit you in your ass on the way out. |
go back home buddy! you really dont belong here!
how do you manage here I really dont know...
fact is this is KOREA! you dont come here and make the rules ok!!!
koreans shouldnt have to change becuase you dont like it!
you dont like it!"? go back home!!
THE FATHER INLAW has HUGE STATUS in korea!
she just needs to SUCK IT UP and put up with it!
like her husband said.. even the mentioning of telling him to not smoke is rude! there is no diplomatic solution it will leave bad air doesnt matter how kindly or diplomatic you word it..
first of all.. he should know better.. most korean men would go out into the stairwell.. or the balcony..
most korean fathers I know their wives never let them smoke inside!
but I guess in this case.. that father is the REAL korean ADOSI type and listened to know one but himself..
my advice again.. dont do anything!
its not worth making a fuss over.. |
OMFG I agree with Itaewon guy... guess there really is a first time for everything.
This is korea, the rules are different. Many on this board have no clue what these rules are and try and fit their middle class canadian/whatever values to korean life... newsflash it don't work that way, different countries = different ways of doing things |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Oh, I find myself agreeing with the I-guy a lot more since I've learnt to mentally lower the decibel level and scrape off some of the...um... "verbal hot sauce"? from his posts. (I mean, really, nobody can be that bombastic in person as he seems in print, can they?) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Oh, I find myself agreeing with the I-guy a lot more since I've learnt to mentally lower the decibel level and scrape off some of the...um... "verbal hot sauce"? from his posts. (I mean, really, nobody can be that bombastic in person as he seems in print, can they?) |
hahahh well when many board members met me at the daves party back in 2003 they all thought this crazy in your face guy was gonna turn up and scream in their face.. what they got was the total opposit.
like I always say.. I just like writing this way... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Why doesn't he get some manners and realise this isn't the 1930's anymore? Are you gonna be a guest in your own home for the rest of your life? I can see this is off to a great start. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| itaewonguy wrote: |
[you dont like it!"? go back home!!
THE FATHER INLAW has HUGE STATUS in korea!
she just needs to SUCK IT UP and put up with it!
like her husband said.. even the mentioning of telling him to not smoke is rude! there is no diplomatic solution it will leave bad air doesnt matter how kindly or diplomatic you word it..
first of all.. he should know better.. most korean men would go out into the stairwell.. or the balcony..
most korean fathers I know their wives never let them smoke inside!
but I guess in this case.. that father is the REAL korean ADOSI type and listened to know one but himself..
my advice again.. dont do anything!
its not worth making a fuss over.. |
Go back home?????...I am home!
A korean father in law has no more status than you or me or any FiL in the world. They are not God.
You have jerks for Fil's, MiL's, friends, and family all over the world. And most are great. But..a real man would respect the wishes and request in another's home.
quote...fact is this is KOREA! you dont come here and make the rules ok!!!
koreans shouldnt have to change becuase you dont like it! end quote
I don't make any rules or want anyone to change to my style...and I adapt easy to anothers culture.
But..."changing the rules" has nothing to do with no smoking in my house!
What...FiL wants to fly to another country...no smoking on a plane. Flight time could be 10 hours depending on where the smoker is flying to...they have no choice but not to smoke! So...a few hours visit in the home is not much to ask when it comes to no smoking.
And I am a smoker..and I take it outside. Cigarette smoke stinks, gets into ones clothes, etc....and around a new baby...smoking!?!?!? Not while holding the baby I mean...but koreans smoke one after another..and the smoke lingers even with the windowns open.
No...she needs to tell the FiL...take it outside in my opinion..why let anyone walk over you just because it's korea and a korean FiL has status! Bull crap.
You want to smoke...I'd defend your right to smoke.
In my house...it's my choice. If the FiL is upset about it...that's his problem. He needs to deal with it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| This is korea, the rules are different. Many on this board have no clue what these rules are and try and fit their middle class canadian/whatever values to korean life... newsflash it don't work that way, different countries = different ways of doing things |
By god, I agree with ya Mashimaro...who would have thought this day would come  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Still, why should Casey's Moon risk her health because of his confucious, power-given rights? Tell him kindly that you are allergic, but don't be suprised if he refuses or complains to your husband about you. Who cares if he gets upset, right? The important thing is that you take a stand for your health....smoking is a nasty, dirty habit and my husband has to smoke out on the balcony. I'm actually very easy-going but smoking I am not.
And Koreans know better...to hell with that confucious power-given right. My husband and his friends, as well as many other Koreans I know, take the smoke outside or ask if it's okay before lighting up in someone's home.
If you kindly request, Casey's Moon, maybe you'll be pleasantly suprised. It could be that he just doesn't know your discomfort and will stop. If he doesn't stop, then just leave the house and do something like read at your coffee shop or go shopping...it might unsettle the family with your "rudeness" but at least you can go outside and get fresh air (well, Korean air). I would do that only because I value my health and long years ahead of me versus being nice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| jazblanc77 wrote: |
| my house is a place where I can find respite from the everyday pressures of life in Korea and a place where the culture of jazblanc77 and wife apply. |
Regardless of the fact that I think you're situation allows you to set the rules in a way that CM's does not, I want to say that was very sweetly put there, jazblanc77. I quite liked that.
|
I suppose you think that section of my quote sounded misogynist or chauvinist, it was not. I was just trying to say that our home is a "safety zone" from the bending and compromising we have to do in the normal world. This would be the same anywhere we go in the world, as it is with almost everyone else on this planet. If you go into another's home, you respect their rules and wishes. Anywhere you go, it's about diplomacy and appoaching the situation with tact. Getting in the FIL's face about smoking would be very un-Korean but, making him feel welcome to smoke AT your house in another area and using the MIL to diplomatically convince him are VERY appropriate and very true to the Korean way. Seriously Itaewonguy, do you think that it would be appropriate for you to walk into someone's house, in Korea, and simply spark up a cigarette without asking or ado about anything? Your hosts would be aghast and wouldn't know what to do AND, since Koreans aren't confrontational, they would let you save face and not say anything. The fact is that YOU would have broken the rules and everyone else was too polite to throw it in your face. Now, if you came into a Korean household and asked to smoke but they said no, you wouldn't, would you? How is this different from where you were raised (an honest question without sarcasm)? There are rule breakers everywhere we go and it seems that CM's FIL is a Korean one. The question of whether he should smoke in her house is moot, it's simply about how she solves the problem with him so that she doesn't harm her relationship with her inlaws or make him lose face. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Good post jazzblanc, but I'm pretty sure the Guru's comment was a compliment, not an insult..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| casey's moon wrote: |
| Good post jazzblanc, but I'm pretty sure the Guru's comment was a compliment, not an insult..... |
Just checking because I wasn't sure. Anyways, my post wasn't driven just by that comment so I hope that Jongnoguru doesn't feel that I singled him out.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jazblanc77, not sure how you would read my comments as an insult, but if you did you were mistaken. Such misapprehension is sadly understandable, I suppose, in a forum like Dave's and in age such as this, where compliments are typically backhanded and "helpful advice" is usually motivated by the "giver's" desire to pontificate, self-aggrandise and insult the "receiver". So, while it flies in the face of what's considered high wit and mega-cool on Dave's, some of us fogeys will just go on saying what we mean and meaning what we say.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrew
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ..... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
