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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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 Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Len8 wrote: |
Koreans are resistant to change. They get in their groove and don't wont to know that there might be something else other than what they are comfortable with. It's part of their mindset. and to think that there might be otherwise would be stressful and something they wouldn't want to deal with.
Hence their fixation on American English. To consider another English would be too taxing for their personalities. |
Exactly. |
Well, well, well. Two more nickel sociologists. Talk about over-generalizing.  |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| desultude wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| Len8 wrote: |
Koreans are resistant to change. They get in their groove and don't wont to know that there might be something else other than what they are comfortable with. It's part of their mindset. and to think that there might be otherwise would be stressful and something they wouldn't want to deal with.
Hence their fixation on American English. To consider another English would be too taxing for their personalities. |
Exactly. |
Well, well, well. Two more nickel sociologists. Talk about over-generalizing. |
Well sociology is the painstaking explanation of the obvious, isn't it? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| gmat wrote: |
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| China uses British English????? |
News to me. Almost all of the 2000 plus students I have taught in China clearly spoke with an "American" English accent. For obvious (economic)reasons an 'American' accent is preferred by Chinese students. |
I worked in the state sector, and it was British English all the way - in Hangzhou and Beijing. I also worked at a private kindy in Yunnan for a short while, and they wanted British English, in line with state schools. I thought it was appropriate to include American alternatives (spellings and pronunciations) when it seemed apt, but some students complained. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
I also question the need to teach beginners specifically that there are variations in spelling and grammar in English based on nationality. A general statement that it happens seems to be enough to me. They will run across specific examples later. In the beginning, don't they just need to learn how to make sentences? (When you study Korean, do you learn all the regional variations?) I really wonder whose needs are being met when class time is spent on whether 'color' has a 'u' in it or not. In my limited experience, very few 10 year olds write business letters. |
Yata boy, nobody is advocating that kindies take a course in world varieties of English, or learn two different spelling lists for the same words. That would be bloody stupid. Do you have some kind of axe to grind?
What I find amazing is that at university level plenty of students are not aware that there are two spelling varieties. College students unaware that centre can be spelt center or centre and realise, realize or realise. In nearly a decade of English classes, no-one has brought this to their attention (or they weren't paying attention). I've even met Korean English teachers who were unaware of this. One of my students was very angry with her Korean professor, when she admonished her for saying waTer instead of waDer. I agreed with her that she should be allowed to pronounce it any bloody way she liked, and that both pronunciations were acceptable. Native English speakers from the US, with no axe to grind, also backed me on this.
I stay neutral and advocate neither one nor the other. Some students profess a desire to attain a British accent for their own differing reasons, and I'll assist and advise on request. But I don't waste my precious class time on it.
Let me give you another example of the ignorance out there. One student at my previous university was discussing another of her classes. She said they were learning British English. I was quite surprised that there was a class devoted to British English. British English, she explained was extremely difficult. She could barely read it, and certainly didn't know how to write it. It was like another language. After several minutes of discussion, it transpired that the student was studying Chaucer. The student had confused middle English with modern British English. I thought this was just a one off. Later, I discovered that other students were subject to the same confusion. Some students thought British English was Shakespearean English. How did they get so far through the system with misconceptions like that? They were bloody surprised when I showed them some modern day British English texts and they realised it was almost identical to American English, just a few minor spelling differences.
I definately think they'd benefit from a 50 minute class that covered world varieties of English.
Your analogy of regional varieties isn't apt. If Korean was spoken throughout the world, and was the primary language of several countries, and there were two major Korean standards, I'd want to be aware of the fact, and know a little of the differences. I'd be bloody annoyed if I was sent out in the big wide world to stumble upon this for myself, for want of a lesson or two.
And worse of all, I've met Americans who, upon reading or hearing standard British English, thought they were reading/hearing errors. Now that really is ignorant. |
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gmat
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: |
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BigBird:
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| They were bloody surprised when I showed them some modern day British English texts and they realised it was almost identical to American English, just a few minor spelling differences. |
Doesn't this seem a little contradictory to your claim that "British English" is taught in the state schools? Shouldn't they already know modern British English texts and not American?
I teach at a good state university. Most students ( I'd guess over 95%) speak with an American accent and are much more familar with American vocabulary. Apartment v. flat, elevator v. lift, etc.... |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
How do you figure that the slight difference between an Imperial gallon and a U.S. gallon was derived from Americans "changing it to fit their narrow perceptions"?
I swear to fscking god, some of you Canadians are just too insecure. There's enough in this world to bash America about without people like you making up truly stupid reasons. |
Amen. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| gmat wrote: |
BigBird:
| Quote: |
| They were bloody surprised when I showed them some modern day British English texts and they realised it was almost identical to American English, just a few minor spelling differences. |
Doesn't this seem a little contradictory to your claim that "British English" is taught in the state schools? Shouldn't they already know modern British English texts and not American? |
 What the hell are you talking about?!? Didn't you read the OP? We are discussing KOREAN STUDENTS. Korean Students learn American English in State schools.
Doesn't Dave have a Chinese forum on which to discuss your students? |
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agraham
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Daegu, Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Why is 'z' the only consonant that needs a second consonant in its name? Nobody says 'A', 'Bead', 'Cede', 'Deed', 'E', 'Feed', etc. So why Zed? Historically, where did the 'd' come from?
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You mean the only one besides the other two right? Or do you say Hee and Wee? |
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gmat
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Big bird
| Quote: |
| Previous to my arrival in Korea, I'd taught in China, where British English is the English variety of choice in the educational system. |
What the hell am I talking about
You were the one who brought up China in the OP, are you sufferring from short-term memory loss? It was your very first sentence.
I and others who have taught in China simply called you on this dubious statement. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| gmat wrote: |
Big bird
| Quote: |
| Previous to my arrival in Korea, I'd taught in China, where British English is the English variety of choice in the educational system. |
What the hell am I talking about
You were the one who brought up China in the OP, are you sufferring from short-term memory loss? It was your very first sentence.
I and others who have taught in China simply called you on this dubious statement. |
Bloody hell, are you an English teacher? God help your students. Your reading comprehension is appalling!
_______________________________________________
Let's examine our communication again:
| Big Bird wrote: |
| Previous to my arrival in Korea, I'd taught in China, where British English is the English variety of choice in the educational system. |
The OP isn't discussing Chinese students. The OP is discussing Korean students. The sentence above is just refering to my experience before Korea. The OP then launches into a discussion of my experience of Korean students.
| Big_Bird wrote: |
They were bloody surprised when I showed them some modern day British English texts and they realised it was almost identical to American English, just a few minor spelling differences. |
Now, if you'd been paying attention to the thread, and you were not suffering from any sort of learning disability, you would clearly understand that they refers to my Korean University students.
But you replied to the above with the following:
| gmat wrote: |
| Doesn't this seem a little contradictory to your claim that "British English" is taught in the state schools? Shouldn't they already know modern British English texts and not American? |
Now who does they refer to? My they refers to my Korean University students (who are taught American English in state schools). Does your they refer to my they or does it refer to Chinese students (who I claimed, going on my experience at several schools in several provinces, learnt British English at state school).
Your response doesn't make any sense because your they which refers to my they also refers to Chinese students. But how can it also refer to my they, which refered to Korean students, and to Chinese students simultaneously  Hence my reply: " What the hell are you talking about?!? "
Est-ce que vous comprenez? Je ne crois pas.  |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| gmat wrote: |
Big bird
| Quote: |
| Previous to my arrival in Korea, I'd taught in China, where British English is the English variety of choice in the educational system. |
What the hell am I talking about
You were the one who brought up China in the OP, are you sufferring from short-term memory loss? It was your very first sentence.
I and others who have taught in China simply called you on this dubious statement. |
Bloody hell, are you an English teacher? God help your students. Your reading comprehension is appalling!
_______________________________________________
Let's examine our communication again:
| Big Bird wrote: |
| Previous to my arrival in Korea, I'd taught in China, where British English is the English variety of choice in the educational system. |
The OP isn't discussing Chinese students. The OP is discussing Korean students. The sentence above is just refering to my experience before Korea. The OP then launches into a discussion of my experience of Korean students.
| Big_Bird wrote: |
They were bloody surprised when I showed them some modern day British English texts and they realised it was almost identical to American English, just a few minor spelling differences. |
Now, if you'd been paying attention to the thread, and you were not suffering from any sort of learning disability, you would clearly understand that they refers to my Korean University students.
But you replied to the above with the following:
| gmat wrote: |
| Doesn't this seem a little contradictory to your claim that "British English" is taught in the state schools? Shouldn't they already know modern British English texts and not American? |
Now who does they refer to? My they refers to my Korean University students (who are taught American English in state schools). Does your they refer to my they or does it refer to Chinese students (who I claimed, going on my experience at several schools in several provinces, learnt British English at state school).
Your response doesn't make any sense because your they which refers to my they also refers to Chinese students. But how can it also refer to my they, which refered to Korean students, and to Chinese students simultaneously Hence my reply: " What the hell are you talking about?!? "
Est-ce que vous comprenez? Je ne crois pas. |
When it's a Commonwealth uni grad going up against an American, when it comes to English it's pretty easy to guess who'll have the higher level 90% of the time. C'est le meme chose avec le francais. |
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:59 am Post subject: |
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One question.
Why are you so angry? Bolding words, different colors, crazy long posts.
Relax.
Relax.
Relax. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Yu_Bum_suk" C'est le meme chose avec le francais.[/quote]
Vraiment?  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Hanson wrote: |
One question.
Why are you so angry? Bolding words, different colors, crazy long posts.
Relax.
Relax.
Relax. |
Take a deep breath, count to 3, then exhale slooooooly.
The bolding and colours do not represent anger. Rather they are an educational tool, to better help the learning impaired digest something a little more complex than the comic book speech bubbles to which they are accustomed. My post might have been a little challenging for its intended recipient, and the colours and bolds could perhaps have aided his limited attention span. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Commonwealth grad?
Bring it on, my friend. I will shove all your cockney claptrap up your Camilla-worshipping bungholes. |
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