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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Doufu: (After consideration I have decided to edit this)
Last edited by Summer Wine on Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think Joe's comments represent Americans in general, but he does seem to represent a certain segment of posters on this forum. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Fair point "some waygug-in" I'll take it into consideration. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| fidel wrote: |
Doufu boy stop your childish sermonizing and look at some cold hard facts. Here's the ranking of contries by relief aid per capita per day
1. Norway 21.04
2. Sweden 11.81
3. Denmark 5.95
4. Switzerland 5.85
5. Netherlands 5.15
6. Belgium 2.94
7. United Kingdom 2.58
8. Finland 2.38
9. United States 2.34
10. France 2.17
11. Canada 2.10
12. Australia 1.93
13. Ireland 1.83
14. Austria 1.23
15. New Zealand 1.18
16. Spain 0.61
17. Germany 0.61
18. Italy 0.42
19. Greece 0.27
20. Japan 0.06
21. Portugal 0.03
9th, far short of the top givers. |
More than 60 governments voluntarily finance the humanitarian and development projects of the World Food Programme.
http://www.wfp.org/aboutwfp/funding/majordonors.html
WFP'S BIGGEST DONORS
http://www.wfp.org/aboutwfp/funding/governments.html
Top 20 Donors
2002 Contributions to International Refugee Aid Agencies
1. United States
2. European Commission
3. Japan
4. Netherlands
5. Australia
6. United Kingdom
7. Sweden
8. Norway
9. Germany
10. Denmark
11. Canada
12. Italy
13. Switzerland
14. France
15. Finland
16. Belgium
17. Ireland
18. Spain
19. Luxembourg
20. Saudi Arabia
http://www.refugees.org/downloads/wrs03/Table1314.pdf
The United States remained the leading receiver of asylum seekers with 134,000 new applicants, followed by the United Kingdom with 111,000. Germany and France came in third and fourth with 91,500 and 51,000 cases, respectively. On a per capita basis, Austria received the largest number of asylum seekers followed by Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, and Ireland.
2003 World Refugee Survey
http://www.refugees.org/downloads/wrs03/SSTable8.pdf
The U.S. contribution to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees is the largest of any donor state, contributing approximately 25 percent of their annual budget each year.
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2003/20083.htm |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| relief aid per capita per day |
Bottom 20 reading skills
Based on total summary of unrelated posts in 2005
1. Real Reality
2. somebody else
3. somebody else
4. somebody else
5. somebody else
6. somebody else
7. somebody else
8. somebody else
9. somebody else
10. somebody else
11. somebody else
12. somebody else
13. somebody else
14. somebody else
15. somebody else
16. somebody else
17. somebody else
18. somebody else
19. somebody else
20. somebody else
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/apples_and_oranges |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
Doufu: an answer  Sometime in the next week I would like an apology for your comment Or maybe Americans aren't good at apologising  |
I'm sorry, did I miss something? I don't think Joe has ANYTHING to apologize for. Is it this comment?
| Quote: |
Let's face it, the US is like the Daddy and the rest of the world's nations are like teenagers. They expect us to protect them from bullies, rescue them if they get too far in debt with that new credit card, and help them out in emergencies. They'll take our money every time we offer it, and regularly ask us for it when we don't offer, all the while they're bad mouthing us to their friends. But when we're in need, the most they'll do is make puppy dog eyes and hand over their piggy bank with a grand total of four dollars in it.
This kind of relationship only serves to legitimize US dominance in world affairs and our authority to do things like invade Iraq. If we're the parent, why shouldn't we be able to punish the bad children when necessary? Now the UN, or the EU, or even Japan or China could step up and start to behave like equals instead of indignant teenagers, and this would be a fine opportunity for them to do so, but I guess it's clear they won't. |
Look, I have no idea what country you're from (and, frankly, couldn't care less) but Joe offering up his opinion on world affairs hardly needs to be apologized for to you. If you made the decision to be offended by it, guess whose problem that is? Joe can have his opinion and, in this case, I agree with most of it.
I was very offended by your comments. Where's my apology?
Now, if it wasn't about the above quote, then I apologize for butting in.  |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Let's face it, the US is like the Daddy and the rest of the world's nations are like teenagers. |
I have a problem with this quote. I come from a country that has been involved in every war in the 20th Century that the US has been involved in. Even sending troops and providing support in unofficial ways or by helping allies of the US. BUT, when we decided to be non nuclear in the 1980's you ostracised us, refused us the right to train with you, deal equally with you and even have a free trade agreement with you. While you cosied up to your communist enemy china because they could make you money. |
Hey man, you wrote this in the middle of the night and you wonder why you didn't get an immediate response? So what country are you from? Taiwan? I love Taiwan, don't get me wrong, but you misinterpreted my comments.
I wasn't slamming all the tiny countries that only gave a little bit - how much can you expect them to give, really? In a comment I made it clear that I disagreed with the author of the article on that point. My position is that the EU, the UN, China, and Japan are all big enough economies that they should be taking a leadership role in providing aid to the US. It doesn't matter who is richer, it's about friendship between nations and building a relationship between equals. When they accept aid (and defense, and leadership) freely from us, but don't give anything in our time of need, they are actively setting up a parent-children relationship between the US and themselves. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Wanago: no real information posted by you. But if you I want an apology, I am sorry that I hurt your feelings.
Doufu, you make the claim that it is about equal friendships. The US has not been about equality, but rather a dominating attitude to those countries smaller than it. (Latin America) Look at the actions that they have done, that have affected smaller countries. (trade restrictions) Look at the way they have treated smaller countries that have disagreed with them about a relatively minor position. (pariah status) You make the claim that it is a big brother or father - child relationship, if you give money and they don't reciproicate while ignoring that in many cases, the assistance provided was to benefit the US, not so much the recieving country. (Latin America, Africa, Asia, Pacific) It is a valid point that if you look at many past cases around the world, you will find that the US actions have harmed many countries and that they should be grateful and reciprocating aid may not seem logical to all.
Citizens of many countries have suffered because of actions the US took. Now they are in positions of power and not your greatest friends is not suprising.
My complaint was that a country that should have benefited from US friendship due to all the friendship it has shown the US in the past and still does today should not be classed as a "teenager reliant on the US by an american writer" while in fact being treated as a pariah for refusing US demands. I felt that it was rude and condescending to say," hey we have treated you oh so nice in the past (note this is in the eye of the beholder) where is your help now". Really look at what help the US has provided and then note that not everyone sees it as help.
None of the above withstanding, I am sorry for America's loss and pain and do believe that other countries will help the US. It just takes longer than some to find the money. In the past, it has been shown that many countries quickly pledge money and then take a while to give it. If I was America, I would rather they take thier time to pledge thier money and then quickly give it.
After serious consideration I have decided to remove this - it is too sweeping a point and too emotionally based". If anyone has further issues, read the below message.
Last edited by Summer Wine on Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| On second thought, I will take back my request for an apology, it would be stupid to ask an american to do something like that. They might choke on the words. |
Summer Wine or Summer Whine? |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
Wanago: no real information posted by you. But if you I want an apology, I am sorry that I hurt your feelings.
Doufu, you make the claim that it is about equal friendships. The US has not been about equality, but rather a dominating attitude to those countries smaller than it. (Latin America) Look at the actions that they have done, that have affected smaller countries. (trade restrictions) Look at the way they have treated smaller countries that have disagreed with them about a relatively minor position. (pariah status) You make the claim that it is a big brother or father - child relationship, if you give money and they don't reciproicate while ignoring that in many cases, the assistance provided was to benefit the US, not so much the recieving country. (Latin America, Africa, Asia, Pacific) It is a valid point that if you look at many past cases around the world, you will find that the US actions have harmed many countries and that they should be grateful and reciprocating aid may not seem logical to all.
Citizens of many countries have suffered because of actions the US took. Now they are in positions of power and not your greatest friends is not suprising.
My complaint was that a country that should have benefited from US friendship due to all the friendship it has shown the US in the past and still does today should not be classed as a "teenager reliant on the US by an american writer" while in fact being treated as a pariah for refusing US demands. I felt that it was rude and condescending to say," hey we have treated you oh so nice in the past (note this is in the eye of the beholder) where is your help now". Really look at what help the US has provided and then note that not everyone sees it as help.
None of the above withstanding, I am sorry for America's loss and pain and do believe that other countries will help the US. It just takes longer than some to find the money. In the past, it has been shown that many countries quickly pledge money and then take a while to give it. If I was America, I would rather they take thier time to pledge thier money and then quickly give it.
On second thought, I will take back my request for an apology, it would be stupid to ask an american to do something like that. They might choke on the words. |
Well, as a person from the United States, I will ask for an apology for the last remark. We are not all alike. It is the grossest sort of stereotyping to make a statement like your last one, and diminishes any argument you make.
There are many good and caring, thoughtful, intelligent people in the United States, even if they don't prevail in electoral politics. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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 I offer my apology to all americans offended by my comments
I also do not wish to tar anyone with the same brush. America is a very disparate nation with many different views, not all supporting the current or past actions of thier govt. Thus to make sweeping statements makes me just as guilty of broadly whitewashing history and current attitudes and problems with the same emotional paint as others have done before with whom I disagree.
Last edited by Summer Wine on Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I liked it better when you posted news articles. Have you just discovered wikpedia? |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="gypsyfish"]
| Real Reality wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| relief aid per capita per day |
You can read, too. |
I didn't check your references, don't know where those stats are from, but it's painfully obvious that they are statistics for aid donated by the government. Americans give to humanitarian causes with their own money. See USAID's website about the tsunami relief effort - private donors raised an amount "over 1 billion" and that's when they stopped counting. That seems to be at least as much, or more than, the already huge amount of money the US government gave. I think we can all agree that Norway, Sweden, and Denmark are some of the countries most active at taking money from their citizens and spending it for them, you'll get no argument from me there. Many european countries have little tradition of private giving, as they trust the State to do the best thing and they're suspicious of large non-government organizations asking for money. |
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