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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Mashimaro, good for you!
You just said what I have been silently thinking ever since I came here! |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Korean is a useless language. |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
This is a comment Brachy posted in another thread. I didn't want to derail the thread, so I thought I'd make a new one to request clarity on this opinion.
It's my opinion that, if you are living in Korea, the Korean language is extremely useful. It's the polar opposite of useless. Just like if you were living in France, French would be useful.
But, perhaps there's some logic behind this seemingly byeongshin statement. I'm all ears! How is Korean a useless language, especially for people living in Korea, and which languages are not useless?
Cheers,
Q~ |
Are you alluding to the fact English is a useful language because you can use it around the world? Do you know what is 'unilingual pride'? |
I wasn't alluding to anything.
What is unilingual pride? Being proud of your unilinguality? |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
| plokiju wrote: |
| Korean would be a highly useful language to learn while in Korea but given that most people are only here for one year |
Yeah everyone is only going to be here for one year.. then one more year.. then one last year.. then one for the road.. then you've been here quite a few years and barely speak 5 words of the local language..
I'm glad I can speak korean if for no other reason that is differentiates me from alot of the mental midgets dragging their knuckles around this country |
I haven't met too many foreigners yet in Korea, but of the 20-25 that I have met, only two were still on their first contract. The rest had been here for at least two years, sometimes more. Of the handful of foreigners I've met, only two of them were advanced enough in Korean to carry on a conversation, a few others knew a wee bit, and about a third have known absolutely nothing, as in not even being able to properly say hello and thank you. I've met a few folks who say they can't even order delivery food to their apartment, even though they've been here several years. Can you imagine? What a tragedy!
And when I meet these people who have been here more than two years and speak no Korean, I can't help but form a negative opinion about their character and/or intelligence. Yes, partying is fun, and I like to do it also. But shouldn't there come a time in our lives where we realize that we are responsible adults, and change our goals to something a little more aspirational than collecting notches on our bedposts? Don't responsibility and intelligent living imply a willingness to learn the local language or your temporary home? Why do some posters here impose a false dillemma to conclude that you either study Korean or you get laid? Talk about knuckle dragging!
Now, don't get me wrong - my Korean sucks ass. I can barely sustain a conversation with adults (they conjugate much more than children and use more advanced words). But I'm learning and making an effort.
Cheers to useless knowledge. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Korean is a useless language. |
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| Qinella wrote: |
What is unilingual pride? Being proud of your unilinguality? |
Bingo. It's a linguistics term. I prefer my own definition: "belittling all languages other than one's mother-tongue in order to hide the fact one's too stupid to learn a second language". There's lots of unilingual pride in Korea and North America. |
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sonofthedarkstranger
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I spent some time in Korea and while I was there, I did my best to learn the language, and I got to a pretty good Beginner. I still didn't understand 99% of what was said around me, but I did pick up things here and there. Now I'm out of Korea and the little Korean I picked up has probably withered away into a vestigal stump.
I wouldn't describe my experience learning Korean as useless at all. Even though it's basically gone.
I think what I got most out of it was brain expansion. I was forced to think in new ways, approach communication from a different mindset. New synapses formed in my brain at a blistering rate--I actually feel that learning Korean made me smarter, made my mind more flexible and less limited. Any native langauge forms a sort of box around your thoughts. It's hard to get out of that box. I'd learned Spanish before, but really, Spanish is so similar to English, it really didn't force my mind to undergo any real sort of gymnastics.
So, it was exercise, I guess. Learning Korean was useless in the same way lifting weights or jogging is useless. |
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just because
Joined: 01 Aug 2003
Location: Changwon - 4964
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
I see. So, Indonesian is highly useful?
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In Trevor Collins' home country (Australia) it is a very useful language to know...much more than Korean... |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
| I'm glad I can speak korean if for no other reason that is differentiates me from alot of the mental midgets dragging their knuckles around this country |
Give me a goddam break. Studying Korean while you're here is not the only intellectual pursuit you can possibly undertake while you're here. Trying to advance beyond survival Korean is an extremely time consuming enterprise. Since you gave up working full time and moved into a Korean boarding house in order to do it you should know that better than damn well anyone.
Kudos to you for doing so, but don't think for a moment that this gives you the right to look down on every other teacher here who doesn't do the same.
I've known plenty of English teachers here who have chosen to accomplish other things instead of learning Korean, including:
writing novels
getting black belts in martial arts
getting Masters degrees via distance learning
racking up enough privates to make W5+ million/month, and buy a house with cash in their home countries
create art
learn other languages instead (wouldn't be my first choice either, but...)
Not to mention the fact that most of the teachers here only are here temporarily, and will likely have little if any opportunity to use Korean once they leave here. I can't blame any teacher here who can't be bothered to go through the trouble of learning more than survival Korean. It simply isn't compatible with their long-term goals, whereas becoming an Asian studies professor is your long-term goal.
Furthermore, you've bemoaned here yourself the fact that Koreans don't make it easy to learn their language. There are very few classes outside of the full-time intensive university language programs, it's illegal to work on a language student visa, and many Koreans simply cannot accept the idea of speaking Korean to someone who is not Korean.
Kudos to you for what you have accomplished in terms of learning Korean. I know you've worked hard, sacrificed a lot, and endured a lot of nonsense in order to learn as much as you've learned. And I'm sure you're still working hard. Congratulations.
But that doesn't give you the right to look down on everyone else here who has decided not to walk the same extremely difficult path you have chosen to walk.
Shame on you. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| just because wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
I see. So, Indonesian is highly useful?
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In Trevor Collins' home country (Australia) it is a very useful language to know...much more than Korean... |
Context is the key. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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I've always wondered what Indonesian is actually like in practice - kind of like Tok Pisin and Swahili it's used by far more people as a second language than a first and knowing it would probably help out in understanding the way an IAL (International Auxiliary Language) could be used in practice.
Trevorcollins, what's it feel like? |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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well, i don't wanna sound crude, but i think this thread is missing one big reason: meeting girls.
but anyways, not knowing korean is kinda like living in a mental itaewon. it distorts your view of this place. |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| I see. So, Indonesian is highly useful? |
Like JB wrote, being Australian and moving in the direction of International Relations / SE Asian studies it's one of the most useful languages I can learn. Implying that Indonesian is a useless language to an Australian is comparative to implying that Spanish is useless to an American or French is useless to a Canadian.
| Quote: |
| Enjoyable was never the issue. I find Korean enjoyable. The issue has been "usefulness while living in Korea." |
Good for you. Like I said learning Korean for ME has been a waste of time. YOU can do what you like. I however have no use for a language that I will never again use the very second I leave this godforsaken ROK.
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May I go out on a limb and guess that you live in Seoul? Is that correct?
Westerners in Seoul are spoiled. I go there and Korean jaws drop when I reflexively communicate in Korean. They're so used to westerners being inept at the amazingly simple language, perhaps. |
Incorrect. I live in a farming communtiy of 25,000 people in southern Kyonggi-do that in my experience actually bears more semblance to western china than anything that I would imagine qualifies as a first or even second world country. Several users, and even a couple of mods on here can verify that I'm not just speaking crap here to back up this aspect of what I'm trying to say.
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| Let me ask you this question: if you didn't speak English, how useful would Korean be to you in Korea? I'm really curious how long it will take you to rank charades above the Korean language. |
But that's irrelevant to both of us now isn't it. It's like me saying I don't like fish and you saying "Ah but I bet you would if you were a bear" |
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Apple Scruff
Joined: 29 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
I've always wondered what Indonesian is actually like in practice - kind of like Tok Pisin and Swahili it's used by far more people as a second language than a first and knowing it would probably help out in understanding the way an IAL (International Auxiliary Language) could be used in practice.
Trevorcollins, what's it feel like? |
Feels like warm apple pie.
Feels like talking, numbnuts. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I go there and Korean jaws drop when I reflexively communicate in Korean. They're so used to westerners being inept at the amazingly simple language, perhaps. |
I couldn't disagree with this more. My Korean is around the intermediate level and I have found Seoulites to be unresponsive to it. Often, they have derailed the conversation and responded in English even though the way I asked them something in Korean was perfect. |
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Intrepid
Joined: 13 May 2004
Location: Yongin
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: Mental Itaewon |
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I loved the idea of a "mental Itaewon" inhabited by foreigners who don't know any Korean. That's exactly right.
Now, Itaewon is not a terrible place, but Korea has other "destinations" and going to them in an Itaewon mindset is impossible. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Mental Itaewon |
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| Intrepid wrote: |
| Now, Itaewon is not a terrible place, but Korea has other "destinations" and going to them in an Itaewon mindset is impossible. |
Itaewon is a hovel. Invariabley, Korean will be wasted on the Korean girls in there because they are usually dumbass skanks. Head to different pastures and find some decent Korean women. |
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