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Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

The term "Hindu" is not found anywhere in the Vedas, and it is not a Sanskrit word. It was most probably coined by Muslims who had difficulty pronouncing "s" thus they referred to inhabitants dwelling across the river Sindhu as "Hindus"... By and large, so-called Hinduism is a hodgepodge of many belief systems. The "Hare Krishna" movement identifies itself as Gaudiya Vaishnavism. For a scholarly discourse on the origins of "Hindu" check out the following: http://www.iskcon.com/icj/7_1/71hdg.html

...There has for thousands of years been a philosophical divide between personalists and impersonalists in India. It just so happened that the first big swami that came over to the West and popularized "Hinduism" - Vivekananda - was from the impersonalist, (advaita or mayavadi school originating with Shankaracharya) Impersonalism gave rise to the "we're all god" hippy mentality that still pathetically lives on in some...) A number of other "big swamis" and "yogis" also crossed the ocean to spread impersonal philosophy mainly to well-to-do patrons and celebrities. Bhaktivedanta Swami was the first Vaishnava who came over with the personalist message and established the sankirtana movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - who predicted over 500 years ago that the chanting of Hare Krishna would be spread to every town and village in the world. With the help of a bunch of materially exhausted but spiritually inspired hippies - and a major boost from George Harrison of the Beatles -the transcendental vision has been largely realized...

For a sketchy overview of the complex topic of Hinduism/Vaishnavism you can consult Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishnavism

Schools of Vaishnavism
Major Vaishnava schools of thought include:

Vishishtadvaita ("qualified nondualism"), espoused by Ramanuja; i.e., Sri-vaishnavism
Dvaita ("dualism"), espoused by Shri Madhvacharya
Achintya Bheda-Bheda, espoused by Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu adhered by Gaudiya Vaishnavism. ISKCON ("Hare Krishnas") is the most well known branch of this school.
Shuddha-advaita, espoused by Vallabhacharya
Dvaitaadvaita, espoused by Nimbarka
Advaita ("nondualism") is a philosophy founded by Shankaracharya in which Vishnu is ultimately an attribute of Brahman.

The Major Schools

The group which believes that Vishnu is the greatest God and all other Gods and creatures are below him. All of the sects mentioned above except the last fall under this group.

Advaita Vashnavites, which believe that as no soul is actually separated from God, that every soul is ultimately one and the same. Thus each soul could be considered as equally divine. Thus Vishnu in the saguna form is characterized by harmony and perfection. As a nirguna, he becomes the state unblemished by matter and is without attributes.
Normally the tern "Vaishanva" is used to refer to people of the first category alone, but there are a number of people in the second group, e.g., Smartas who worship Vishnu as their favourite God, or Ishta Deva. For more information about the first category, see Vaishnava Theology and Gaudiya Vaishnava Theology. For information about the second category of people, see Smartism and Advaita.

fiveeagles · Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: Vancouver

Interesting stuff, R teacher. Man, you have studied a lot. I read through some of it and I want to ask you a question on the following text.

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Practically every philosophy and belief system has its origins in India. One has to be careful browsing under the banner of "Hinduism" because along with the best and most beneficial philosophies are spiritually poisonous doctrines that will undermine one's faith in God by tapping into the power of illusion (maya) and word jugglery. One Vaishnava stated that it was less dangerous to live a pit with alligators and venomous snakes than it was to hear impersonalist philosophy "mayavadis" of the Advaita persuasion who ultimately make no distinction between God and man. Any religious system that results in pure love of God is first-class. Systems that reinforce the material idea that we are the supreme enjoyers and controllers of all we survey and whose aim is some material gain are cheating religions.

hojucandy · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Location: In a better place

desultude · Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:32 am Post subject:

laogaiguk · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

I suggest checking this book out - for those who haven't already closed their minds on this and related subjects:

Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence

by Stephen Knapp

This book provides evidence which makes it clear that most religious history is not what we think it is. It lets you see the true heritage that has been suppressed for centuries. It shows that there was once a greatly advanced and ancient culture that was a global society. This was the Vedic civilization. Even today we can see its influence in any part of the world, which makes it obvious that before the world became full of distinct and separate cultures, religions, and countries, it was once united in a common brotherhood of Vedic culture, with common standards, ideals, language, and representations of God.

No matter what we may be in regard to our present religion, society, or country, we are all descendants of that ancient, global civilization. The Vedic tradition of India is the parent of humanity and the original ancestor of all religions. Through this book you will see:

How Vedic knowledge was given to humanity by the Supreme.

The history and traditional source of the Vedas and Vedic Aryan society.

Who were the original Vedic Aryans. How Vedic society was a global influence and what shattered this once world-wide society.

Many scientific discoveries over the past several centuries are only rediscoveries of what was already known in the Vedic literature.

How the origins of world language and literature are found in India and Sanskrit. How Sanskrit faded from being a global language.

The Vedic influence and proof of its ancient existence found in such countries as Britain, France, Russia, Greece, China, Japan, Egypt, and in areas of Scandinavia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Americas.

The links between the Vedic and other ancient cultures, such as the Sumerians, Persians, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, etc.

How Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism were all influenced by the Vedic tradition and still contain many Vedic elements within them.

How many of the western holy sites, churches, and mosques were once the sites of Vedic holy places and sacred shrines.

Uncovering the truth of India's history: Powerful evidence that shows how many mosques and Muslim buildings were once opulent Vedic temples.

The need to recognize the real history of the world, and to protect what is left of Vedic culture, the roots of humanity.

This book is offered as an attempt to allow humanity to see more clearly its universal origins. However, this book provides enough amazing if not startling facts and evidence about the truth of world history and the ancient, global Vedic culture, that it could quite possibly cause a major shift in the way we view religious history and the basis of world traditions.

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/proof_of_vedic_culture's_global_existence.htm

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Might as well show the table of contents (you gotta admit it seems interesting - I haven't read it yet myself maybe never will, but I'm obviously predisposed toward this and similar concepts...):

Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence Table of Contents

PREFACE * This book is Great Food for thought at the Very Least * About the Name "Hindu."

INTRODUCTION: WHAT IS THE VEDIC/ARYAN CULTURE ?

CHAPTER ONE: VEDIC CULTURE SINCE THE TIME OF CREATION * The Divinity of Sanskrit

CHAPTER TWO: THE HISTORY AND TRADITIONAL SOURCE OF THE VEDAS * The Compiling of the Vedic literature

CHAPTER THREE: REDISCOVERING THE ADVANCEMENTS OF VEDIC SCIENCE * More ancient glories of Vedic Culture * The Vedic Ion Machine

CHAPTER FOUR: THE ORIGINS OF VEDIC SOCIETY: SOURCE OF THE WORLD'S SPIRITUAL HERITAGE * Theories of the Aryan origins * Was there ever an Aryan Invasion? * The Indus Valley Civilization was a part of the advanced Vedic Culture * The Vedic literature supplies no evidence of an Aryan invasion * More evidence for the original home of the Vedic Aryans * The Vedic explanation of the original Aryans and how their influence spread throughout the world * The chronology of events in the spread of Vedic culture * Conclusion.

CHAPTER FIVE: THE WHOLE WORLD WAS ONCE IN UNITED IN VEDIC CULTURE * The Vedic tradition is the parent of all humanity * India and Sanskrit: The source of world literature * Worldwide remnants of Sanskrit * How Sanskrit faded from being a global language and what shattered the global Vedic culture * Vedic culture is the original ancestor of all religions.

CHAPTER SIX: MORE SANSKRIT/VEDIC LINKS WITH ENGLISH WORDS AND WESTERN CULTURE

CHAPTER SEVEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE FOUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND AFRICA * The Hittites * The Mitanni * The Sumerians * Persia * Afghanistan * Iraq and Iran * The Kassites * Israel * Arabia * The Parsis * The Druze * Egypt * Africa.

CHAPTER EIGHT: ISLAM AND ITS LINKS WITH VEDIC CULTURE * The Basics of Islam * The Vedic connections in Islam * The Kaba was a Vedic shrine

CHAPTER NINE: THE PHILOSOPHICAL ORIGINS AND VEDIC LINKS IN JUDAISM * The History of Judaism * More Vedic links in Judaism

CHAPTER TEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN EUROPE AND RUSSIA * The Vedic influence in Britain * Stonehenge and the Druids * Ireland * France * Scandinavia * Lithuania * Germany * Central Europe * Spain * Italy * The Pope and the Vatican * Greece * Russia.

CHAPTER ELEVEN: CHRISTIANITY AND THE VEDIC TEACHINGS WITHIN IT * A brief look at Christianity's beginnings * Paganism in Christianity * The sectarian development of the Christian Scriptures * The Vedic influence on Christianity * The dark side of Christianity * The prison of religion * Jesus Taught Bhakti-yoga * Do all Christians go to heaven? * The Bible teaches the chanting of God's names * The names of God.

CHAPTER TWELVE: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN THE ORIENT * Java * Indonesia * Borneo * Malaysia and Singapore * Thailand * North and South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos * Korea * Myanmar (Burma) * China * Buddhism * Japan * Reiki.

CHAPTER THIRTEEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN THE ANCIENT AMERICAS * More Vedic links in the Inca language * Other cultures that came to America.

CHAPTER FOURTEEN: UNCOVERING THE TRUTH ABOUT INDIA'S HISTORY * The plot to cover Vedic archeology in India * The Taj Mahal was a Hindu temple * The misidentified so-called Muslim buildings in Delhi * The Kutab Minar * Other buildings around Delhi * Ahmedabad * Bijapur * Misidentified Hindu buildings in other areas * Hindus constructed, Muslims destroyed * Time to plan the survival of Vedic culture * An action plan for the survival of Vedic Culture in India and elsewhere.

CONCLUSION

APPENDIX ONE: MORE INFORMATION ABOUT VIMANAS

APPENDIX TWO: REESTABLISHING THE DATE OF LORD BUDDHA

hojucandy · Joined: 03 Feb 2003 Location: In a better place

rteacher yu are cracking me up. Laughing

it gets better and better!

chapter 14 of that book reads like a monty python script-

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Well, since I haven't read the book , and I'm not familiar with the author or his methodology or sources, I certainly can't attest to the fact that it's 100% correct in all its claims. But it is certainly (vegetarian) food for thought. (...Moreover, it is easy to believe that some Western clergy and "Indologists" and scientists were indeed motivated to denigrate Vedic culture to protect their own vested interests...)

laogaiguk · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Dang it, I'll just have to read the book now!...

ddeubel · Joined: 20 Jul 2005

This tthread has a lot of spooky stuff in it but also its share of enlightenment. Just need a little more "I don't have a clue".......

I am glad that the thread has grown from a question of sex (did Jesus get off?) to questions of suffering (why does god allow this?), to now questions of life after death.......Seems this thread has gone through the aging process...

The only certainty is uncertainty!! We dont know shit about all this and thought you have faith fiveeagles, it is just as much possibly a lie as all else....

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

All personal qualities that we have exist in the Supreme Person in their pure form. There is no fighting or anger in the perfectly harmonious spiritual world, but when God appears in the material world mainly to protect devotees He also exhibits anger and enjoys fighting (and killing) demons opposed to the establishment of religious principles. (Usually the "demons" are liberated souls from the spiritual world with great mystic powers who voluntarily role-play the part of demons just to assist the Lord in His pastimes...)

A pure representative of God is naturally humble and meek and tolerates all insults and persecution targeted at himself, but gets extremely angry when the Lord is blasphemed (or another devotee is harmed) and is prepared to act like fire...) Unless one is fully conversant with transcendental knowledge it may be difficult to ascertain what is material and what is spiritual...Moreover, when people with unclean minds see a saintly person associating with a prostitute they naturally think "ha!...he's just like us...!" while devotees naturally think that the saintly person is extending the Lord's mercy to the most fallen by preaching to her...