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| Do you want the U.S. to lose all power. |
| Hell yeah! Burn baby burn! |
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23% |
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| Kick the Republicans out of office and we'll see. |
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17% |
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| Bring on the Pax Americana. |
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29% |
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| Just stop bombing brown people for oil and I'll be happy. |
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29% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
It is not unpatriotic to question the govt and show a healthy attitude of skepticism with regards to its answers.
It is an antiAmerican agenda to cynically paint the U.S. as being under the power of a secret society that is evil and needs to be overthrown, however. And that is the gist of the conspiracy theories and other allegations we see on this board (and elsewhere). |
Ermmm ..... if one were to paint the US as being under such a pwer, and believed that to be a bad thing, then logically one would be against such evil.
And pro-US.
Wouldn't one? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted]
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ermmm ..... if one were to paint the US as being under such a pwer, and believed that to be a bad thing, then logically one would be against such evil. And pro-US. |
I don't think the USA is under such an evil power. I've always said-- people give the American government too much credit when they imagine that they can cover up vast conspiracies when they can't cover up a presidential-intern hummer!
Anyway, to deal with the question; if you believed the USA were run by evil interests, you could be either pro US, hoping that America can be cured of the cancer, or you could be anti US, believing that the cancer has spread so far that the patient can't be saved. You could even be so anti US that you think the patient and the cancer are the same and the patient shouldn't be saved!
Ken:> |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| While many of these issues-- 9/11 being staged, JFK, moon landings-- range from unproven to silly, I don't share the opinion that being interested or concerned with them is unpatriotic! I think we need to distinguish between the person who wants to know if there's any past monkey business in the American government out of an honest desire to make things better, and the person who just wants ammunition to condemn the USA with. A Watergate reporter and a terrorist aren't the same. |
Good points, Ken. And I agree with you on everything you say here.
It is not unpatriotic to question the govt and show a healthy attitude of skepticism concerning its answers. But we do need to stick to the evidenciary record, right?
And it is antiAmerican -- that is, hostile to the United States -- to cynically paint the U.S. as being under the power of a greedy secret society that is purely evil and needs to be overthrown, however. And that is the gist of the conspiracy theories and other allegations we see on this board (and elsewhere in the media).
And, before I go, one more clarification and distinction is in order: A Michael Moore and a Watergate reporter are not the same thing either. |
So would you say that Michael Moore is "anti-American" for expressing his views and ideas on his website and in his movies and books? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| who knows about Michael Moore my guess is that Michael Moore is nothing but an oportunist who is full of himself and cares little about anything else. but Michael Moore is nothing compared to Jeff Rense , the American Free Press or Michael Rivero. It is clear what those guys are about and what there objective is. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: |
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No. I say that Michael Moore is a college dropout and a nutjob.
Last edited by Gopher on Tue May 09, 2006 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| No. I say that Michael Moore is a college drop-out and a nutjob. |
Nothing wrong with college dropouts. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
| No. I say that Michael Moore is a college drop-out and a nutjob. |
Nothing wrong with college dropouts. |
No, but for expertise on U.S. affairs and foreign policy, I prefer to look elsewhere for analysis, don't you? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
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mithridates wrote:
Gopher wrote:
No. I say that Michael Moore is a college drop-out and a nutjob.
Nothing wrong with college dropouts.
No, but for expertise on U.S. affairs and foreign policy, I prefer to look elsewhere for analysis, don't you |
Not necessarily. As far as I can tell from Wiki, Walter Cronkite never went to college. And who would you, Gopher, trust more for analysis of American foreign affairs: Walter Cronkite, or Noam Chomsky Ph.D?
With all due respect Gopher, your "college dropout" remark reminded me of those liberal snobs who think they're really scoring a devastating hit against Bush by pointing out that he flunked Chemistry at Yale or something. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Well, however you may look at it -- and there are exceptional people in the world, no doubt -- Michael Moore is still not Walter Cronkite, no more than he is a noble Watergate reporter.
If what I said above offends you (even though I did not isolate "college dropout" from "nutjob," because in Moore's case, he's both, and it's both of them that make him what he is today), then let's just stick with this.
Last edited by Gopher on Tue May 09, 2006 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Isn't Bill Gates is a college dropout? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Bill Gates and Walter Cronkite are exceptional people. Michael Moore is not.
My point that Michael Moore is no pillar of wisdom on U.S. affairs and foreign policy is hardly a stretch. His information on the U.S. is based on a severely limited education -- sorry if that is offensive, but it is also true.
As for Chomsky, he is grinding an ideological axe and not a dispassionate or objective source of information, educated or not.
Last edited by Gopher on Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Michael Moore would still be an idiot even if he got a PhD. His personality flaws trump whatever benefits an education might offer him.
Some excel without formal education, others fail despite it. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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So would you say Mike Ruppert is "anti-American"?
for those who don't already know, he is the man behind the copvcia site.
He seems to me anti-corruption, but I wouldn't say anti-American. |
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